Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-10-2020, 11:03 AM   #1
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
Alaska USCG Concerns Violations Maritime Law

From National Fisherman:


https://www.nationalfisherman.com/al...tKWUkifQ%3D%3D
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 11:51 AM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Shrew's Avatar
 
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,160
I'm not sure how this is a surprise...

1) Marijuana was made legal and accessible. The Federal Government is really just behind the curve on this one. One can drink themselves into a stupor, but can't smoke. The Hearst anti-marijuana propaganda from the 30's has somehow ingrained itself into our culture. This, in itself is a hysterical paradox. Hearst was really driving to prevent sustainable hemp, which would have been an alternative to wood pulp for paper. Hearst had invested heavily in forestry to supply his newspaper empire. His campaign basically took each congressman and senator and said "If you don't want to get smeared in my papers during your re-election, you'll get behind me on this". Now marijuana is classified with heroine and cocaine, when even alcohol is worse from an addiction and health perspective.

2) Alaskan Fisheries continue to struggle. Farm raised salmon continues to drive down the cost and increase competition with wild caught. International imports also continue to compete as the international seafood market has moved to 63% farm raised sustainability. Crabs are a becoming a commodity of the wealthy. Decreasing demand for traditional species like herring. As a result more Alaskan fisherman struggle financially as the cost of equipment like liferafts and gumby suits continue to increase.

The two concepts in the report seem like likely and somewhat expected outcomes based on our current socio-economic landscape.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:09 PM   #3
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
I'm not sure how this is a surprise...

1) Marijuana was made legal and accessible. The Federal Government is really just behind the curve on this one. One can drink themselves into a stupor, but can't smoke. The Hearst anti-marijuana propaganda from the 30's has somehow ingrained itself into our culture. This, in itself is a hysterical paradox. Hearst was really driving to prevent sustainable hemp, which would have been an alternative to wood pulp for paper. Hearst had invested heavily in forestry to supply his newspaper empire. His campaign basically took each congressman and senator and said "If you don't want to get smeared in my papers during your re-election, you'll get behind me on this". Now marijuana is classified with heroine and cocaine, when even alcohol is worse from an addiction and health perspective.

2) Alaskan Fisheries continue to struggle. Farm raised salmon continues to drive down the cost and increase competition with wild caught. International imports also continue to compete as the international seafood market has moved to 63% farm raised sustainability. Crabs are a becoming a commodity of the wealthy. Decreasing demand for traditional species like herring. As a result more Alaskan fisherman struggle financially as the cost of equipment like liferafts and gumby suits continue to increase.

The two concepts in the report seem like likely and somewhat expected outcomes based on our current socio-economic landscape.
Expected but failure to follow the rules just shows the blatant disregard for rules in our society.

Now to marijuana. Oh how much we've spent and continue to spend on marijuana policing. Our prisons are full. Our traffic stops and boat stops all with so much emphasis on it. The testing of course says nothing about when it was used. The war on drugs failed decades ago. It was about as successful as our war on Covid 19.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:41 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
City: Prescott
Vessel Name: JOURNEY
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 84
As a Chief Mate on many ships, I lost many very good and competent crew to positive drug test. Every time there was an accident or a mariner got hurt, I was required to do a drug /alcohol test. It seemed that the crew member that were the hardest working, always did a great job, were the ones that didn't pass accident testing. Most of them passed on the random tests as they pretty much knew when they were going to happen. I think the USCG will have to come into the 21 century one of these days soon. Remember that crew on commercial vessels can, if they blow above .04, are in trouble.
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:55 PM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
I wouldn't blame it solely on the USCG, it's still against federal law so what do you expect from an enforcement agency?

They have repeatedly stated that they will enforce all laws but I have heard/read they have guidance to back off personal use quantities on recreational vessels.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:11 PM   #6
Guru
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,412
I've long had a problem with the drug testing for credentialed mariners. A heavy drinker can step aboard so hung over after a night out he is marginally functional. A pot smoker may have gotten high weeks before, be fit for duty yet fail the test.
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
Portage_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:21 PM   #7
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
I've long had a problem with the drug testing for credentialed mariners. A heavy drinker can step aboard so hung over after a night out he is marginally functional.

A pot smoker may have gotten high weeks before, be fit for duty yet fail the test.
Remember the Exxon Valdez?

I have had to ask guests on ASD to leave their pot in their car. But Tom it is legal here in Washington! My response: "True, until I untie the lines, then I fall under Federal Law, where it is still illegal. Thank you for your cooperation."
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:21 PM   #8
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Some people are shocked that we don't drug tests in our businesses. Can you imagine trying to operate retail with no employees who ever used marijuana. I once knew a company that required Lie Detector Tests on all new employees. They had retail clothing and their market was young people. On the tests they asked the question had the employee ever used any illegal drug, including marijuana. Now, the manager would warn applicants, so over 50% would never show up. Still of those who did, another 50% failed the test. They had the worst staff around.

I'm personally concerned over the use just as I am over excessive use of alcohol. We're going to likely see long term effects with lung disease and perhaps other effects still to be determined. It's fairly easy to identify those who have a problem and we do advise and counsel and if it interferes with their work performance, then their job is in jeopardy. When abuse of drugs or alcohol is so obvious to others, then it's clearly a problem for the person involved.

Another issue I saw decades ago with drug testing. Companies were testing even office employees where it seldom was a performance issue. However, the employees knew well the risks of being caught on marijuana versus other drugs so would instead use drugs with shorter times in your system. As a result in those offices, no one ever failed on marijuana. Instead the few who failed would do it based on other drugs. Sadly, they were not people whose job performance reflected it.

I don't want someone stoned operating boats or cars, but we don't have the ability to test for that.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:31 PM   #9
GFC
Guru
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,406
i've never been a pot user. When I was in high school (mid 60's) that was the demon drug that would instantly lead you to heroin and other "deadly" drugs. None of the bunch of guys I ran around with used it.

By college time (late 60's) I still didn't know anyone 9who used it. Then I went in the USAF and when I got to Alaska the senior NCO's (all older guys) wanted me to join a group that was going to do a surprise search of the barracks looking for drugs, weapons, etc. I begged off, saying that I didn't want to be on the opposing side of the guys in the barracks who were all about my age.

When I had to take a drug test for my CDL I wasn't worried because I'm still a non-user.

That all being said, I think the feds are way behind modern times and should remove mj from the prohibited drug list. I have many friends who smoke and I honestly can't tell if they have recently smoked unless they're stoned.
__________________
Mike and Tina
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:38 PM   #10
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I don't want someone stoned operating boats or cars, but we don't have the ability to test for that.

This is the crux of the problem. We don't want impaired mariners, drivers, or employees. There are good tools for determining if someone is under the influence of EtOH. I am not aware of any similar tools for THC. It would be good if some could be developed.



So, do we say that since testing for marijuana use is inconvenient and not time specific that we accept marijuana use by mariners, drivers, and employees?


Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 02:48 PM   #11
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.
LOL, very true. My 19 year old son (lives with his mom) lost two nice jobs as he tested positive for mj. But dad its LEGAL! True son, however, an employer has the right to test or may also be required. So now you have a decision to make.
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 03:08 PM   #12
Guru
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,412
Yes I well remember the Valdez. And I fully support zero tolerance on board, not just on watch. I enforce it on any boat I run.

My problem is with the unfairness of the testing. If I'm so hungover I can barely function as long as I test coming aboard below 0.04 no problem. But if I smoked pot weeks ago and get tested coming aboard I'm screwed. A friend lost his license that way. He was not high when stepping aboard, hadn't gotten high in weeks. He knew better. He was not scheduled for weeks yet but when the ship was short handed due to illness the office "asked" him to come back early. He was randomly tested upon boarding and failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
Remember the Exxon Valdez?

I have had to ask guests on ASD to leave their pot in their car. But Tom it is legal here in Washington! My response: "True, until I untie the lines, then I fall under Federal Law, where it is still illegal. Thank you for your cooperation."
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
Portage_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 03:16 PM   #13
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post


Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.
You could say the same about alcohol and I find far more instances of operating under the influence of alcohol than marijuana as very few will smoke on board but they will drink on board.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 03:36 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
Nothing new here as far as business and machinery operation regarding being under the influence. The standard language is "testing positive or operating equipment while impaired will lead to disciplinary action up to and including discharge."

Conditions of employment regarding drugs and alcohol are variable dependent upon the job. They are not complicated and have been in place for a very long time.

Some years ago I read a story written by a top NFL scout. He said that MJ users were quite noticeable in many ways from the standpoint of injuries and conditioning. When operating at the top 0.001% of human physical ability a bit of MJ can make the difference in getting a berth or getting cut.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 03:58 PM   #15
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: former owner of "Pilitak"
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,703
From the legal point of view, it is just like the border. Federal. The law does not allow mj, but does allow alcohol (not impairment or operating under the influence).

In this day and age, operating machinery (including cars, vehicles, boats, etc.) while under the influence is just crazy. The evidence of the consequences is out there, well known, and has been around for years, yet it still happens.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 04:06 PM   #16
TF Site Team
 
Shrew's Avatar
 
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,160
So just to clarify. I do believe that the USCG is doing their job, as outlined by the Federal Government. Which is why I specifically stated the Federal Government is behind the curve (not that anyone was calling me out specifically, I'm just agreeing).

Nobody said these fisherman failed tests "While operating machinery". Nobody said these were the results post accident testing. The article only states a rise in negative tests, which I have to assume are part of the random testing program.

I have to say that I've known some guys who do amazing things (rock climbing, ice climbing, very fast, very technical dirtbike riding). Smoking in their spare time, then later (while sober) being able to be very very good at these things are mutually exclusive.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 04:30 PM   #17
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
Back when I was XO on a guided missile destroyer with 400 crew, it was my job to handle ALL the rules. The level of daily excellence required of everybody weeded out (pun intended) the MJ "dopers" really fast. They were known (largely because of their dopiness) and generally ridiculed by their enlisted peers (NEVER in 24 years saw an officer doper), but there was the code of silence which prevented them turning in the dopers to me, the cop on the beat. However, after I finally caught and kicked out of the Navy the last of 47 dopers people would tell me how much more they enjoyed the atmosphere (literally and figuratively) aboard the ship. Now my wife has grandkids who are dopers, and they are not allowed to visit MY house cuz I just won't put up with that crap.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 06:25 PM   #18
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
You could say the same about alcohol and I find far more instances of operating under the influence of alcohol than marijuana as very few will smoke on board but they will drink on board.

Agreed. The point is that if that person is tested a BAC gives a good measure of their intoxication. Someone can drink a few days before they go out and it not only won’t affect their performance but they won’t have an issue with a test. Marijuana is different in that regard and everyone knows it. So they can choose to use the drug, and take the risk of having a random test before it has cleared their system, or they choose to abstain from using to avoid problems with testing.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2020, 08:58 AM   #19
Guru
 
City: Alexandria, VA
Vessel Model: 2000 Wellcraft
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
As a Chief Mate on many ships, I lost many very good and competent crew to positive drug test. Every time there was an accident or a mariner got hurt, I was required to do a drug /alcohol test. It seemed that the crew member that were the hardest working, always did a great job, were the ones that didn't pass accident testing. Most of them passed on the random tests as they pretty much knew when they were going to happen. I think the USCG will have to come into the 21 century one of these days soon. Remember that crew on commercial vessels can, if they blow above .04, are in trouble.
We're a doped up nation, for sure. We self-medicate for every problem. And, I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2020, 09:08 AM   #20
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
We're a doped up nation, for sure. We self-medicate for every problem. And, I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.
Hasn't distracted driving taken over as the leading cause of car crashes?

Responsibility is key...whether you drink, use THC, use your phone, maintain your vehicle....etc...

As we see in all the COVID garbage.....responsibility for understanding problems is an issue. Some people rebel no matter what, some people either dont or cant critically think through a barrage of sound byte news....and I am sure the psychologists and sociologists can come up with many more reasons why Americans are doing so poorly.

Could it be because of personal responsibility?
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012