Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-24-2020, 08:22 PM   #21
Veteran Member
 
City: Stuart, Fl
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 81
For the uninitiated, how wide is this entrance? Is this surge an all day, everyday issue? Seasonal? I’m used to more of a traditional ‘inlet’ and I’ve been through some scary inlets, but this surge thing just sounds ‘sporty’!
Yachtman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 11:16 AM   #22
REO
Veteran Member
 
REO's Avatar
 
City: Eureka Springs, AR
Vessel Name: TBD
Vessel Model: 1984 Albin 27
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 46
Inlet surge problem

This problem exists in a few marinas on the west coast of Mexico. It is caused by tide and wind. The marina just north of Ensenada and the entrance to El Cid and Marina Mazatlan are good examples. These marinas were built where the ocean didn't want them. In Ensenada the marina was built on a beach. A sea wall creates a basin for the docks. The entrance is narrow and perpendicular to the beach. To enter you run at the beach and make a sharp left turn when you see the opening. Very exciting when waves are breaking. Once inside, I have seen the tidal surge break dock lines when wind and tide build up together. Marina Mazatlan and El Cid were built where a shallow swamp created a large basin. The entrance was cut from a sandy beach area. Same problem. In Mazatlan they have to run a dredge constantly to keep the entrance from silting in. Tidal surge can be a problem even at the docks in El Cid. The Mexicans have not learned not to mess with mother nature. There is a "marina" somewhere north of Ensenada that was dredged and platted for a dockside community. When we visited by car they had not found a dredge strategy that could keep up with the silting.
REO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 11:54 AM   #23
Guru
 
City: Newport, R.I.
Vessel Name: Hippocampus
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,914
There’s been a transition in sailboat design. To maximize endplate effect and improve efficiency the keel stub being part of the canoe body has been eliminated in many recent designs. This is ok if done in conjunction with beefing up the internal grid bearing the forces and of course number, design and strength of the keel bolts. To do it “right” is expensive and even then prone to possible failure. Unfortunately given small endplate for lateral forces to work on failures have occurred. Not only fractured keel bolts but also laminate torn away as occurred with the mega yacht Oyster off the coast of Spain. The keel bolts didn’t fail but rather the surrounding structure.
This design element also leaves the vessel prone to unseen and potentially future catastrophic failures down the road if even minor groundings occur. When the front edge of the keel is struck the trailing portion of the keel is forced upwards into the canoe body. This causes crush. The fractures of the laminate fibers and supporting grid may not be visually apparent. The structure may suddenly fail as it works in a seaway or even more moderate loading.
We intentionally had an Outbound built for us as there have been zero keel failures inspite of a long history of heavy service including coastal and open ocean passages. Inspite of being a fairly high aspect bulbed fin they are internally ballasted and seriously overbuilt. A expensive detail but provides a long safe service life. Cost of a boat is cost to buy minus return when you sell it. We are actively looking to buy a blue water trawler. Similar levels of construction in series production vessels is quite limited. This time it will be new to me rather than new. But the same formula holds. Expensive in but higher return when swallowing the anchor.
Still you need to be prudent. The MFD isn’t enough. Cruising guides remain helpful. Rages, surges and bars aren’t to be trifled with. There are many scary places. The Bahamas, leewards, Windwards, coast of Portugal, bay of biscay. The list is extensive not just the west coast of Mexico or US where timing is everything. You must expect to have to be entirely self sufficient. Sure you may luck out and a friendly fish boat will talk you in as you follow them but that nothing to count on. As they say “ it’s not the ocean that commonly sinks you...... it’s the hard edges”.
Hippocampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 12:29 PM   #24
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachtman View Post
For the uninitiated, how wide is this entrance? Is this surge an all day, everyday issue? Seasonal? Iím used to more of a traditional Ďinletí and Iíve been through some scary inlets, but this surge thing just sounds Ďsportyí!
Quote:
Originally Posted by REO View Post
This problem exists in a few marinas on the west coast of Mexico. It is caused by tide and wind. The marina just north of Ensenada and the entrance to El Cid and Marina Mazatlan are good examples. These marinas were built where the ocean didn't want them. In Ensenada the marina was built on a beach. A sea wall creates a basin for the docks. The entrance is narrow and perpendicular to the beach. To enter you run at the beach and make a sharp left turn when you see the opening. Very exciting when waves are breaking. Once inside, I have seen the tidal surge break dock lines when wind and tide build up together. Marina Mazatlan and El Cid were built where a shallow swamp created a large basin. The entrance was cut from a sandy beach area. Same problem. In Mazatlan they have to run a dredge constantly to keep the entrance from silting in. Tidal surge can be a problem even at the docks in El Cid. The Mexicans have not learned not to mess with mother nature. There is a "marina" somewhere north of Ensenada that was dredged and platted for a dockside community. When we visited by car they had not found a dredge strategy that could keep up with the silting.
Reo, good and true points. The entrance is very narrow, which doesn't help. I know know why the party boats are full throttle when going through the entrance. Dock A gets the worst of the surge. Your boat goed back and forth 24/7!! Rocks you to sleep.
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 12:49 PM   #25
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Sold Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,903
Attached is a google earth pic and a pic of the entrance from Navionics.

This is a very narrow entrance, about 70 feet across at the narrow point, and usally a dredge is in this vicinity. Local knowledge is one thing as most of the tour boats that traverse the inlet have enough power and speed to handle almost any issue when entering or exiting.
The sailboat that ran aground was caused by several things. The dredge was in the channel at the time and the sailboat(drawing 7.5 ft) entered at high tide. It is recommended to enter slack to high depending on how much you draw. When you enter the channel you pretty much have to commit to entering blind as you wont see exiting boats or the dredge if he is active in the channel. Now have swell on your stern pushing you in and it can get pretty dicey, I have experianced this, NO FUN!

We have experienced surge in several places on the west coast. The San Francisco Bay marinaís downtown where very noticeable and this may have been our first experience, main reason we choose Sausalito to stay.

Anyway El CID is a nice facility other than the Surge. For future reference, the dredge normally works the entrance Monday-Friday from about 9 AM to 4 PM. He will move the dredge to the rock wall when a few boats stack up in either direction, they dont have any warning system in place and donít communicate via the radio. But the locals may have a secret channel that they talk on, we just never found it.

Hope that explained it a bit better

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
64F83486-9453-49D9-9F37-0805E3B9FE83.jpg   82FECE5A-0CC7-4851-A5B9-800837D39F92.jpg  
__________________
John & Tracey
Boatless
https://mvpairadice.blogspot.com/
Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 01:58 PM   #26
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9,395
If you search Youtube, you will see videos of the Haulover cut in FL.
Based upon the videos one would believe Haulover is the worse cut on the southeast coast of FL.
Yes, it has a delta so you'd be advised to stay close the outer edge, watching your depth sounder and avoiding the rocks.
When I am outbound, I go passed the cut, watching for incoming traffic. I circle back around and staying reasonable close to the outside edge and exit.

I hear the same warning about the Stuart FL. But it is a nice wide cut compared to Haulover. In Stuart you learn to stay on the back side of the waves cautiously, careful not to broach or climb over the top of the wave.

I did the Stuart and Haulover cuts in my speedy 8knt N46 and my SD AT34 that is supposed to go a roaring 15knts.
So far, common sense has been my savior. If need be, stay outside watching the waves for a bit and then choose the next wave to ride.

There will always be idiots who believe, they must go max speed to get in or out of a cut and then, they wonder why they bury their bow as they climb up and over the top of a wave.
I am very surprised the bottom of the Haulover cut is not littered with sunken bow riders. That open fwd cockpit, in my feeble mind, is inviting disaster.

I have also seen people who believe, as soon as they clear the cut, they can put their beam to the waves. WRONG!!! Go out a distance beyond the breaking and big waves and then quarter the seas.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012