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Old 08-05-2021, 05:49 PM   #1
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Potential New Build On The Horizon?

I guess anyone who enjoys boating as much as we do can argue that even one day without a boat is too long and something needs to change. Having recently passed the nine month mark since the sale of our last trawler combined with my better half (Mary) advising she is done boating (ouch), has left us both (mostly me) trying to figure out our next journey in life.

Staying in touch with a few who still own boats and reading updates posted on TF from those commissioning their new boats has kept me interested in possibly one more new build. Add in the past few weeks of long walks along the bay and different harbors watching all the boats and Mary agreed we need another boat. What type of boat and how will we will use it is the big question and something I recently mentioned on another post. Even with her endorsement I know there will be times I will be alone on the boat. Not sure if it will be trawler, sailboat or Downeast style day cruise but in the end it doesn't matter as long as it is a new build and I can enjoy the process.

For those who don't know me I grew up on the water on the east coast (Long Island, New York) fishing, clamming and just messing around on the water. Moved to southern California after college and have enjoyed 30 plus years of boating along the coast with trailered boats and a few trawlers. We lived aboard (part time) in San Diego on one of our trawlers which looking back were the of best times. I think it was the combination of a new adventure / life style, our age and situation all at the right time. Glade we did it but would not do it again.

As with most everyone on TF our needs and desires change over time which can make the choice of "which boat" interesting, challenging and fun. If its not fun then why do it? So as we look forward to "our last" new build one thing that will not change is the process we use to find that boat and this is what I plan to focus on with this thread. I would like to share our experience (yes, we did this on TF before with the last boat and received many thanks so why not do it again) with the new members and hope they can learn a thing or two.

This time it will be a little different since we will be researching two boats at the same time. Crazy, yes but we miss the water and need to find something smaller that gets us back to boating ASAP while we look for the "last boat" which will take a few years to complete. Its amazing how long the wait is today for a new build. The process will be same but with a few adjustments for the different boats and we expect the same results "finding the right boat for us".

So standby for a lengthy thread that will include the highs and lows of what we call "riding the wave" to find the next boat. At least I think that is what I called it the small book we wrote many years ago when we purchased our first Nordhavn.

For those who may think we have deep pockets and this is no big deal please wait. We are not wealthy and like others have had to sacrifice a few things in life for this life style. Out true success I believe has been finding the right boat and timing. If you are fortunate with both you can actually limit your investment losses (boats are a depreciation asset) and in some cases even "break even" (OK, get real close). Hope you enjoy....

John T. - N4050, N4061, N3522, H38E Former Trawler Owner
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Old 08-05-2021, 05:54 PM   #2
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I enjoyed your account of the last build. Looking forward to it.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
So as we look forward to "our last" new build

John T. - N4050, N4061, N3522, H38E Former Trawler Owner
Wifey B:







Sorry I couldn't help it.

Still laughing, just a limit on the forum of 20 laughs.
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Old 08-05-2021, 10:39 PM   #4
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Since we will be looking at two different two boats close to the same time we know the first boat needs to somehow support the second boat (if possible) to help with the budget (dingy or day boat). So adding this into the process will make it even more interesting.

As with all other boats we will start with the 90% rule and ask ourselves two primary questions'
1. who will be aboard 90% of the time? Myself about 30% of the time and the two of us the balance of the time. No one else.
2. How will we use the boat 90% of the time? This boat will be used to keep us on the water during nice weather and for a few a hours. We want a boat we can trailer, visit harbors and new places from south of the boarder to Lake Tahoe. Many times I will likely take her out alone when the weather turns cool. We will likely use this boat for 2-3 years.

A final consideration is storage of the boat. Since we want to trailer the boat and do not want to leave it at a storage location (our new home is in an HOA which despite offering 2-3 acre lots does not permit RV and Boat parking) we need to fit it in our garage or build a new garage. This equals a boat under 21 feet and modest beam which will be too large for our next boat so we will likely need to think smaller.

A few boats I have in mind include a console RIB, cold molded skiff, sail boat and electric boat. While some could be carried on a good size trawler or ?? others could be towed. A lot to think about.

Funny how this journey has us thinking about the dingy before the boat.

John
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Old 08-06-2021, 03:30 PM   #5
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Good catching up today John. Good luck with the search.
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Old 08-06-2021, 06:09 PM   #6
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As Bill (H-43) knows I have been lurking around for awhile thinking about a boat to stay on the water so the next few updates actually occurred over the past few months. I want to post them as part of the "process" we want to focus on during this thread. The boat styles mentioned earlier in our "field of dreams" (size of the boat doesn't stop one from dreaming) included a number of very nice console RIB's including Zodiac, Argos, Highfield and Walker Bay. We are leaning towards Walker Bay in part since they are a US based company and appear to offer latest technologies in manufacturing. Size range between 10' - 15' which will accommodate the two of us (and Sailor Blue), easy to tow, able to launch & retrieve from the bigger boat and provide safe fun on the water. Large enough to cruise any harbor, lake or bay and tailorable. On a super nice day the larger size RIB could even go outside the break water for a spin or light fishing. We are exploring both gas and electric power. Price per foot on these boats appears reasonable (yes, subjective) and under $40K+/-. I can store these in the garage without any issues and they can be resold. As you can see above we followed the 90% rule and remained inside the boundaries of who will be aboard and will we use the boat 90% of the time.

Our next post will look at another type of boat.

John
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Old 08-09-2021, 02:49 PM   #7
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Next Boat Review

Now that we have reviewed RIB's the next boat we are studying is a cold molded skiff built in the NE. The boat is know as a West Pointer and the one we are interested in is built by Six River Marine in Maine. Why a wood boat? I have always admired the skill that goes into building boats and wooden boats require true craftsmen and women. The cold molded approach alleviates most issues with wood boats and is still used around the world including Turkey who builds Vicem Yachts. We can not go any larger than 16 feet and prefer electric OB over gas. While the existing model is hard chime we would like to round them off a little for a slightly softer ride. The ability to customize the interior layout is very appealing so this boat looks like a strong contender. Since she is a wood boat we need to be cautious of its weight since she may be stored topside on the next boat.

Does this boat pass the 90% rule - yes!

John
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:26 AM   #8
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Depreciation asset

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Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
I guess anyone who enjoys boating as much as we do can argue that even one day without a boat is too long and something needs to change. Having recently passed the nine month mark since the sale of our last trawler combined with my better half (Mary) advising she is done boating (ouch), has left us both (mostly me) trying to figure out our next journey in life.

Staying in touch with a few who still own boats and reading updates posted on TF from those commissioning their new boats has kept me interested in possibly one more new build. Add in the past few weeks of long walks along the bay and different harbors watching all the boats and Mary agreed we need another boat. What type of boat and how will we will use it is the big question and something I recently mentioned on another post. Even with her endorsement I know there will be times I will be alone on the boat. Not sure if it will be trawler, sailboat or Downeast style day cruise but in the end it doesn't matter as long as it is a new build and I can enjoy the process.

For those who don't know me I grew up on the water on the east coast (Long Island, New York) fishing, clamming and just messing around on the water. Moved to southern California after college and have enjoyed 30 plus years of boating along the coast with trailered boats and a few trawlers. We lived aboard (part time) in San Diego on one of our trawlers which looking back were the of best times. I think it was the combination of a new adventure / life style, our age and situation all at the right time. Glade we did it but would not do it again.

As with most everyone on TF our needs and desires change over time which can make the choice of "which boat" interesting, challenging and fun. If its not fun then why do it? So as we look forward to "our last" new build one thing that will not change is the process we use to find that boat and this is what I plan to focus on with this thread. I would like to share our experience (yes, we did this on TF before with the last boat and received many thanks so why not do it again) with the new members and hope they can learn a thing or two.

This time it will be a little different since we will be researching two boats at the same time. Crazy, yes but we miss the water and need to find something smaller that gets us back to boating ASAP while we look for the "last boat" which will take a few years to complete. Its amazing how long the wait is today for a new build. The process will be same but with a few adjustments for the different boats and we expect the same results "finding the right boat for us".

So standby for a lengthy thread that will include the highs and lows of what we call "riding the wave" to find the next boat. At least I think that is what I called it the small book we wrote many years ago when we purchased our first Nordhavn.

For those who may think we have deep pockets and this is no big deal please wait. We are not wealthy and like others have had to sacrifice a few things in life for this life style. Out true success I believe has been finding the right boat and timing. If you are fortunate with both you can actually limit your investment losses (boats are a depreciation asset) and in some cases even "break even" (OK, get real close). Hope you enjoy....

John T. - N4050, N4061, N3522, H38E Former Trawler Owner
I am sorry to announce, there is no such thing as a “depreciation asset”
A boat is a “liability”
A Rolex you bought for $400 and sold 50 years later for $50,000 is an asset.
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Old 10-01-2021, 03:23 PM   #9
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Just had a nice chat with the people at Six Rivers. 18' West Pointer comes in at just under
1500 lb fully loaded, sans crew. Of course that is with a single 50hp outboard.
Several models already built and ready to ship sitting in the shop. Previously owned boats also available.
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Old 10-11-2021, 12:40 PM   #10
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Its been awhile since I posted an update but that's not to imply our search has ended. In fact its been just the opposite and we have been talking with many different builders of small sailboats (day sailors) on the east coast. Just trying to understand the basics of sailing and what makes one style / design better than others has been interesting. While I know the smart thing would be to take a few sailing lessons prior to selecting the boat I'm willing to take the risk, do things in reverse and learn with our boat. The investment is low enough to support this decision and makes things a little more exciting.
Applying the 90% rule allowed us to select an open cockpit design providing maximum interior space for the two of us and keeps the overall weight down for trailering. One "must have item" we focused on is beam to length ratio to insure maximum stability for a boat under 16'. Sailboats in nature are narrow which works well for performance (going as fast as possible given the waterline length) but when you are use to wide beam trawlers I'm not willing to give up comfort (as much as possible). This thinking led me to Cat Sailboats from the Northeast. Almost 2:1 LOA to Beam ratio! There are only a few builders of these style boats each with their approach and tweaks to this legendary design that has been around for 100 years. After much research and discussion we selected Marshall Marine who has an impressive and long history.

In our next post we will look closer at these boats and the different models Marshall Marine offers.

John
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Old 10-11-2021, 05:33 PM   #11
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Nice looking boats.

Have you been aboard one for a sail? As an ex-sailor who started with daysailers I'd just recommend that you be prepared for the athletic workout. Its not hard, but more athletic than running a trawler. Plus the effort to launch and retrieve it on the boat ramp. Step and unstep the mast, etc. Be prepared.

Also, I'm not trying to be cute here, merely practical. With daysailers, no head. It is a practical question: how long can you go while holding your water? Your wife? That's how long your sail will be, unless you make a practical plan to handle the need in the cuddy cabin.
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:05 AM   #12
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Piece o’ cake. Just install a Torqueedo electric outboard and your good to go. Just don’t drop the mast through the rear window of the car when stepping the mast as I almost did (:>
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Old 10-12-2021, 04:23 PM   #13
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Staying in Shape

While we have been aboard a few sailboats over the years which provided the inspiration "to let the wind push us along" and enjoy something different, we have not been aboard a Cat style boat. I have seen a few similar style boats docked in Oceanside harbor in southern California but that's about as close as we have been. I'm still thinking about flying out next week to meet the owner of the yard and take a test run but its a long flight.

Your comment about being physically fit to handle sailing is understood and one reason I'm exploring this style of boating - to get a little exercise and stay in shape.

The day head is a very valid point and a consideration which we struggled with. Since Mary already advised this will be "my boat" and her time aboard will be limited I think we can manage. Launching and setting up the rig is another consideration which led us to Marshall Marine. Watching videos of "experts" taking 30+ minutes to rig their boats told me to keep researching. The 15' Sandpiper is offered with a folding mast and allows for the sail to remain attached which should help keep things simple. From what Geoff explained and watching his video (18' boat) it does appears relatively straight forward (we will see). This is another reason to go small.

We purchased a new Honda Ridgeline last month for towing the boat. With the trucks 5,000lb towing capacity I know we will be fine taking this little boat all around southern California as we did years ago when we had a 22' Mako Center Console. Funny how in life how some things come full circle.

Appreciate your post.

John


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Nice looking boats.

Have you been aboard one for a sail? As an ex-sailor who started with daysailers I'd just recommend that you be prepared for the athletic workout. Its not hard, but more athletic than running a trawler. Plus the effort to launch and retrieve it on the boat ramp. Step and unstep the mast, etc. Be prepared.

Also, I'm not trying to be cute here, merely practical. With daysailers, no head. It is a practical question: how long can you go while holding your water? Your wife? That's how long your sail will be, unless you make a practical plan to handle the need in the cuddy cabin.
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Old 10-12-2021, 04:36 PM   #14
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Torqueedo

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Piece o’ cake. Just install a Torqueedo electric outboard and your good to go. Just don’t drop the mast through the rear window of the car when stepping the mast as I almost did (:>
Funny you should mention the Torqueedo OB. We traded in our 5hp Yamaha gas OB for a 3HP Torqueedo and never looked back. The little electric motor pushed our 10' Gig Harbor dingy along just as easy without the noise and need to store gasoline on the boat. We found another sailboat builder in Maine who uses the same motor but modified it to allow for the battery to be stored separately in the bow, control mounted to the cockpit side wall and a small custom bracket mounted on the side of the boat. All you need to do is attach the motor shaft with propeller to the side mount and go. When ready to sail we store the shaft / propeller forward (likely under the forward deck on two bonded in place brackets). Geoff and I still need to work out the details for his boat. Again, simplicity is our goal along with keeping the clean lines of the boats intact. I struggled with ruining the appearance of the transom with a large motor mount and hanging OB. Hopefully this will all come together.

Thanks for the post and warning about the mast and and the windshield. LOA with the mast folded including trailer is 22'. Storing this in a 3.5 car garage with two cars and the truck is going to be tricky but the tape measure and blue tape outline on the floor shows it possible. Lets hope!

John
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Old 10-12-2021, 05:27 PM   #15
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Big Boat or Little Boat

I received a few private messages (thank you) regarding this new thread and a couple of folks asked if we were actively searching for the bigger boat while also looking for the dingy? Well the short answer is "yes" but not at any great speed. Now that we have narrowed the little boat down to a small day sailor we will try it for a year or two and see if its for us. Assuming it is (I'm making a bet with Mary) the current thinking is to build a 35 - 45' sailboat with a raised salon or possibly a motor sailor (something we can motor along for long periods of time). I already searched out many boats built in different countries and to be honest impressed with what I'm seeing. Some of the design features are amazing and the use of space impressive.

While we have no idea if this will work out its fun to dream, explore and learn what is available in the marketplace. Heck, this is how we started with trawlers 20 years ago and enjoyed the journey with four boats. Just wish we had more time (and funding) ahead to explore everything. At least we are not sitting back and just dreaming about something, life is just too damn short for any of us to that. OK, starting to get off track here so better close out this post.

John
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Old 10-12-2021, 06:26 PM   #16
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John, clearly you have thought this through. Not the least surprised given how you approach things. And indeed, the smaller the rig the easier it will be to deal with.

So to go really off-topic, I have had my eye on the Honda Ridgeline. How do you like it? The knock is it isn't a "real" pickup since built on an SUV frame. To me that's exactly the appeal. Your new owner's take on it?
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:55 AM   #17
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I’m assuming the new build would be because once you have the boat you want to spend your time enjoying it and not working on it, I can definitely get that which leaves me a little confused why you would wanna day sailor , too much work for me ,well I live here in the Northwest so I don’t like being out in the cold damp weather ,I can be in a nice warm dry cabin but that’s just me ,when I first read your post I was thinking ranger 21,Easy to tow They seem to hold her value so when it comes time to sell you will probably do OK, Or a fisher 25 probably be difficult to trailer but it would definitely give you a taste of your new build Boat they hold their value pretty well too awesome little boat
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:22 PM   #18
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John, having read through your threads, I think you might like the process almost as much or indeed more than the resultant boating… and Mary is less enthused about the boating obviously. There is something great for involved creative minds to design and commission projects.
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Old 10-14-2021, 09:14 AM   #19
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I hope you don't mind my asking, so if you completely ignore my question I will certainly understand, but given the large following you generated with your exceedingly complimentary descriptions of your prior builder and the build process, are you able to get any explicit promotional consideration? I note above that you mention talking to a few as yet unnamed builders. Is that part of the discussion? Again, no offense intended, but influencers get commonly get "paid" to influence, and you are an influencer. Then again, the brands being promoted seem to prefer that the promotional aspects never be made explicit, at least not publicly, but it is commonly understood that promotional consideration is given. I am just curious. Thanks if you are willing and able to answer.
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Old 10-21-2021, 09:17 PM   #20
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I hope you don't mind my asking, so if you completely ignore my question I will certainly understand, but given the large following you generated with your exceedingly complimentary descriptions of your prior builder and the build process, are you able to get any explicit promotional consideration? I note above that you mention talking to a few as yet unnamed builders. Is that part of the discussion? Again, no offense intended, but influencers get commonly get "paid" to influence, and you are an influencer. Then again, the brands being promoted seem to prefer that the promotional aspects never be made explicit, at least not publicly, but it is commonly understood that promotional consideration is given. I am just curious. Thanks if you are willing and able to answer.
I wish! Seriously, I do not receive anything from any builder and I would not expect to be compensated for sharing my thoughts. Heck any of us can do that. My goal is to help others who are starting out in boating and hopefully prevent them from making big mistakes.

John
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