Portable power station

[High Wire]

No ground? The case should have a ground cable the same size or one size smaller that also returns back to the battery negative (green) in case of faults.

 

[rwidman]

I recently bought an "east coast" boat and had it shipped to the PNW. It has electric stove plus AC/heat pumps...but no inverter. Our boating season usually begins in the spring and runs to early fall, so many weeks and months cruising and living on board. All of our boats have had inverters, used mostly for making coffee and reheating leftovers for lunch. I recently got a quote for installing an inverter, all to ABYC standards, and it came to $4,800...just to reheat coffee!

Then I learned about portable power stations; basically, a lithium battery in a case with built-in inverter and an assortment of charging inputs and outputs (AC/12VDC/solar). They are available is a range of sizes between 1000-3000 watt output with 1500-3000 Wh capacities. Cost is between $1200-$3000. The one I'm looking at delivers 1000 watts with 2400Wh capacity.

https://www.bluetti.com/collections/1000-2000w/products/blutti-1500wh-portable-power-station

This new technology seems like a great solution for getting occasional AC power without running the genny. Not only do we get pure sine 120VAC power but we also get added battery capacity! Since we visit marinas in-between anchoring, we should have no trouble recharging the power station from our shore power hookup. Plus, the power station would get some charge when we run the generator to charge up the house batteries. Is anyone using one of these units on their boat or RV? What am I missing?

Before you run off and buy some sort of "portable power station", I suggest getting a couple more quotes on an inverter installation.

$4800 is way out of line for an inverter, there must be more to it than you are posting here. Perhaps they would be installing additional batteries, perhaps an additional battery charger, perhaps an upgraded alternator, I can only guess.

My 2,000 watt marine grade inverter and the cables to install it cost me about $400. If I had paid an electrician to install it, I would figure two or three hours at $100 per hour. Figure $1K tops.

And this inverter has an automatic transfer switch so there is no fussing, unplugging things or flipping switches. Plug in the toaster and it works, no matter if we are on shore power, anchored or underway. Same with the microwave or coffee maker. Just don't try to use them all at the same time.

 

[OldDan1943]

Investigate a fuel cell too.
I do wish someone would buy and install a fuel cell so we can pick his/her brain.

One example:
EFOY Comfort 80i Fuel Cell Kit 12VDC (80 Amp Hours)

A video:

I did learn one thing. The battery charger should put out about 10% of battery capacity. I have 600amp house bank (3X4D) but the standard charger for the AT is 40amp. Add in the start battery, another 200amps and it is recommending a 80amp charger. Tisk, Tisk. I guess I need a new battery charger? Nawww, I'm happy.
One thing not mentioned is, the starting state of charge and if the 10% rule applies to over all capacity (in my case 800amps) or the usual max draw down of 400amps?
What to do, what to do.
Maybe if the current 40amp charger goes belly up, I will consider a larger charger.
Another point, should I consider, in the 10% rule, the input of my 2X130watt solar panels?
Hmmm, life goes on.

 

[mvweebles]

I recently bought an "east coast" boat and had it shipped to the PNW. It has electric stove plus AC/heat pumps...but no inverter. Our boating season usually begins in the spring and runs to early fall, so many weeks and months cruising and living on board. All of our boats have had inverters, used mostly for making coffee and reheating leftovers for lunch. I recently got a quote for installing an inverter, all to ABYC standards, and it came to $4,800...just to reheat coffee!

Then I learned about portable power stations; basically, a lithium battery in a case with built-in inverter and an assortment of charging inputs and outputs (AC/12VDC/solar). They are available is a range of sizes between 1000-3000 watt output with 1500-3000 Wh capacities. Cost is between $1200-$3000. The one I'm looking at delivers 1000 watts with 2400Wh capacity.

https://www.bluetti.com/collections/1000-2000w/products/blutti-1500wh-portable-power-station

This new technology seems like a great solution for getting occasional AC power without running the genny. Not only do we get pure sine 120VAC power but we also get added battery capacity! Since we visit marinas in-between anchoring, we should have no trouble recharging the power station from our shore power hookup. Plus, the power station would get some charge when we run the generator to charge up the house batteries. Is anyone using one of these units on their boat or RV? What am I missing?

I'm a bit late to the party here, but hopefully have some insights.

First, $4800 for a new install may be a tad high, but I can see it getting up there for a full 3000W inverter/charger ($1500) plus gauges, fuses, breakers, cables ($10/ft for 2/0 plus lugs), transfer-switch, mounting boxes, adapting main panel, monitors, etc. Especially if some doo-dads like an auto-gen-start is added. Batteries included, etc. At $125/hr for a decent electrician, burn-rate is $1000/day. $4800 may not be a stretch.

As luck has it, I just tinkered with a Harbor Freight 3000W inverter. First inverter I've seen that has two pair of lugs meaning you mount total of four cables to the batteries. Leads me to believe it's 2x1500W. Also need to point out that inverters that cannot be hard-wired are limited to about 15A (AC) per outlet. If you want full usable power, you need to purchase an inverter that can be hardwired. Most decent quality PSW inverters sport UL 458 compliance for grounding.

I have a camper van that I recently installed a decent quality 1000W PSW inverter (limited due to size constraints). It will NOT power the microwave. Owners of similar vans tell me 1500W is what works on their vans for microwave. Those with 2x100AH LFP batteries (roughly 2500WH) report that they have zero issues with running the microwave for as long as needed.

As far as mounting a permanent outlet in galley plugged into the power-pack, suggest one of the styles made for conference room tables that has a plug on the end. It's essentially an extension cord.

https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Recessed-Conference-Outlets-Desktop/dp/B07QLPC14H.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Maybe if the current 40amp charger goes belly up, I will consider a larger charger.

Just an FYI, if you decide to investigate that, you'll also need to take wire sizes into account. AT may have sized the wire specifically for 40A over that (whatever) distance, and if you go to a higher-output charger you might need larger wire over that (whatever) distance.

In our case... when confronted with a similar circumstance, but also a still-working 40A charger.... it was easier to add another charger, located closer to the target batteries, with it's own new wire run.

-Chris

 

[Davil1]

Just an FYI, if you decide to investigate that, you'll also need to take wire sizes into account. AT may have sized the wire specifically for 40A over that (whatever) distance, and if you go to a higher-output charger you might need larger wire over that (whatever) distance.

In our case... when confronted with a similar circumstance, but also a still-working 40A charger.... it was easier to add another charger, located closer to the target batteries, with it's own new wire run.

-Chris

==================================
Wire size matters.

As mentioned on previous posting re:my installation.
Just returned from replacing my 600W small microwave.

Inside installed Xantrex 2000 refused to power the microwave with tripping off about 40 seconds heating!!!
Had replaced the original undersized wiring with 1/0 5 feet long wires and yet not enough!

The second inverter installed with provided wires 3 ft long did work just fine powering the microwave.

Will use this set up for the microwave, not willing to replace the 1/0 cables with increased size wires, not worth the effort on my particular setup.

 

[mvweebles]

==================================
Wire size matters.

As mentioned on previous posting re:my installation.
Just returned from replacing my 600W small microwave.

Inside installed Xantrex 2000 refused to power the microwave with tripping off about 40 seconds heating!!!
Had replaced the original undersized wiring with 1/0 5 feet long wires and yet not enough!

Amen to Size Matters. Blue Sea wire-sizing chart is halfway down this URL. A couple notes

1. Use the 3% column, not the 10%. Especially with deep-cycle FLA, there can be significant voltage drop across the terminals with higher draw on smaller battery banks. This cannot be avoided without expanding the size of the battery bank. So reducing voltage drop via the cables is essential.

2. The distances are roundtrip. Meaning, if you have a pair of 10-foot cables, the roundtrip is 20-feet.

https://www.bluesea.com/support/art...oosing_the_Correct_Wire_Size_for_a_DC_Circuit

Peter

 

[nwboater]

UPDATE - Portable Power Station

Back in February I posted here about adding a lithium power station to deliver AC power in place of a conventional inverter run off the house battery bank. After much research on which power station to go with, I decided on the Hysolis MPS3K and installed it on the boat in June (https://www.hysolis.com). The Hysolis is ready made for marine applications. It has a marine grade 3000W low-frequency inverter with 6000W surge and delivers 25A of clean 120V current. The battery capacity is a whopping 4.5Kw (equal to 375 Ahs) and the charge current is 1400 watts/10A (120VAC). I went with a larger unit than I was originally considering because of the greater battery capacity but mostly because the 3000W inverter output is equivalent to being connected to 30A shore power. The purchase price was just under $3K including taxes and shipping and weights a hefty 135 lbs. For me, an important feature of the Hysolis is that it has a terminal block for hardwiring both input and output power cords which makes for a clean and professional installation.

Here is how I installed it in my American Tug 34: Instead of wiring the inverter output to the electrical panel, I chose to keep the power station completely separate and independent from the boat's factory electrical system. This decision narrowed my options for getting power to the boat's AC circuits. The solution was to simply hardwire a 30A Marinco power cord from the Hysolis AC output on the terminal block and run the cord through the tugs hull to the cockpit where it plugs into my boat's 30A shore power receptacle (see photo). When we leave the dock, I simply swap the marina shore power cord with the one connected to the Hysolis. Another nice feature of the Hysolis is the ability to fast-charge at 1400 watts from any AC outlet. Again, I simply hard wired the power cord to the input terminals on the block and plug it into the factory provided AC wall outlet located in the saloon corner cabinet where the Hysolis now lives (see photo). The entire installation took all of four hours to complete!

I've been using the power station for three months now and it's been working flawlessly. We use it for running the Force 10 electric range, the microwave, Keurig coffeemaker and a variety of devices. So far we've only been at anchor a few days at time, but because the battery has such large capacity, I haven't had to recharge it yet from the generator...just from shore power when we return to the marina. Because there are no heavy loads on the house batteries, we see very little discharge after two days at anchor. The Hysolis has a regulated 10 amp DC plug output which I could use to power the refrigerator but so far haven't seen the need to use it. It also has a built-in MPPT solar charge controller but the charging voltage range of 60V-125V would require using a larger panel array than I want, or need, on the boat. I hope this report was helpful!

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I'm also late to the post. First, Bialetti also makes an espresso maker for induction burners. Wicked fast. Second, all of the posts that I've seen say to throw away the cables that come with the inverter. Expensive inverters don't come with them and inexpensive inverters come with inexpensive cables, often copper-plated aluminum, no AWG size, and with insulation that isn't rated. It was kind of a pain to pay $350 for an inverter and then an additional $50 for cable, but that's a universal recommendation. Third, most reviews end up saying that you should calculate your inverter needs and then increase by 40%. I went even further. I haven't seen anything that makes me think using an inverter at 30% load is less efficient than using a smaller inverter that would be working at 90% load.

Finally, Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems has a YouTube presentation that covers the Efoy methanol fuel cell. I don't remember which video but do remember that he owns one. That's a pretty good recommendation.

While I don't think I need a solar panel/fuel cell/power station/generator right now, I'm watching these posts with interest. I have a generator on board, but I haven't been able to find anybody who can get the 80's vintage 8hp Yanmar diesel to run even though it shows only 600 hours.

 

[ranger58sb]

NWBoater, thanks for starting this, and for your Hysolis installation info.

I've been following this... because our new ride comes with AC-only fridges (2), freezer, icemaker and I don't like to run the genset overnight*... because I like to make quiet morning coffee before starting the genset... because we like a quiet Happy Hour sometimes with hot hors d'oeuvres... et cetera...

And I've been trying to puzzle out where I could locate an inverter/charger and a whole 'nother set of batteries to service those loads.

I haven't done my consumption math yet, and I haven't shopped a lot for solutions, but two "power station" options so far are the Hysolis you used ($3865 MSRP, your price under $3K) and then one the Bluetti people have on their website now, maybe newer than when you first shopped, MSRP $2K:

https://www.bluetti.com/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w-portable-power-station

That particular Bluette unit uses an LifePo4 battery pack, so would seem safer than some of the other options I've seen.

Just throwing a dart, at this point, but I suspect a more typical inverter/charger, with LifePo4 batteries, plus BMS if necessary (I think), plus installation may be about the same cost. Probably cheaper with traditional lead-acid batteries, but then I suspect figuring out where to locate the batteries relative to the inverter/charger (within appropriate fusing distance, etc.) may be much more difficult than it would seem...

When maybe I could just place the Bluetti thing in our saloon, almost right underneath our AC/DC panel, wire it to the panel, Voila!

I don't care so much about the solar, although I could see that maybe becoming useful in future if a cable run is solvable...

Thinking on it.

And if anyone knows about other similar product options, I'd appreciate tip-offs.

(*Our generator is actually fairly quiet, but especially overnight I don't like it when genset -- or other -- noise masks all the other sounds I want to immediately notice and possibly react to.)

-Chris

 

[OldDan1943]

I hope this report was helpful!

VERY helpful but, I have the washer/dryer in that cabinet.
I like the idea of keeping the two systems separate.
It does help to have a professional installation, especially by a professional who knows what he is doing.
Looks like a long term solution to many problems.

 

[ranger58sb]

... and then one the Bluetti people have on their website now, maybe newer than when you first shopped, MSRP $2K:

https://www.bluetti.com/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w-portable-power-station

That particular Bluette unit uses an LifePo4 battery pack, so would seem safer than some of the other options I've seen.

Just throwing a dart, at this point, but I suspect a more typical inverter/charger, with LifePo4 batteries, plus BMS if necessary (I think), plus installation may be about the same cost. Probably cheaper with traditional lead-acid batteries, but then I suspect figuring out where to locate the batteries relative to the inverter/charger (within appropriate fusing distance, etc.) may be much more difficult than it would seem...

A bit of a starting cost comparison. That Bluetti MSRP is $2K, with battery pack and BMS function included.

A Mastervolt CombiMaster 12/2000-100 (120V) inverter/charger is about $1312 and a CombiMaster 12/3000-160 (120V) is about $1550 at Hodges Marine, who generally offers good prices.

That's just for the inverter/charger; no battery or BMS included. Looks like optimized for gel, but configurable for other flooded or AGM lead-acid types. I see no mention of compatibility with LifePo4.

MasterVolt selected for example here simply because our main charger is also MasterVolt. I'd guess comparably-sized ProMariner/Sterling inverter/chargers might be more economical, if suitable.

-Chris

 

[FF]

The Sea Swing is a single burner stove that can be powered with a kerosenr Primus , alcohol or with a hand propane bottle.

An expresso pot is fast , and will call when the brew is finished. The aluminum gets discolored when washed with salt water, the SS pots are larger ( 2 real cups) and fine in salt water.

Producing any type of heat (like cooking) with a battery and inverter is not very practical.
2 min of microwave , fine, but cooking the AC-DC 10-1 amp draw is a killer.

Sea Swing stove gimbal | Classic Camp Stoves

 

[gsholz]

How does this setup deal with ground? The inverter needs to connect neutral and ground when it is the source of AC. When it is charging from shore power it needs to disconnect ground from neutral. There can only be one ground to neutral connection and it is on shore. At a minimum this will trip ground fault interrupters on shore, worst case it is a safety hazard as ground fault current now travels through your body. Portable generators or inverters do not deal with this correctly.

 

[Lepke]

My boat is mostly Ac. Reefer, freezers, winch, lights, etc. I use a 48v inverter that produces 240/120v up to 10,000 watts but I rarely go over 3,000. When running the mains, alternators keep up the 48v bank charged so I never run a generator cruising. When alone, I have a big enough bank to go 2-3 days at anchor before running a generator and time that to water making, laundry, and topping off the water heater. I avoid hot places so rarely have the need for air conditioning.

 

[sbman]

NWBoater, thanks for starting this, and for your Hysolis installation info.

I've been following this... because our new ride comes with AC-only fridges (2), freezer, icemaker and I don't like to run the genset overnight*... because I like to make quiet morning coffee before starting the genset... because we like a quiet Happy Hour sometimes with hot hors d'oeuvres... et cetera...

And I've been trying to puzzle out where I could locate an inverter/charger and a whole 'nother set of batteries to service those loads.

I haven't done my consumption math yet, and I haven't shopped a lot for solutions, but two "power station" options so far are the Hysolis you used ($3865 MSRP, your price under $3K) and then one the Bluetti people have on their website now, maybe newer than when you first shopped, MSRP $2K:

https://www.bluetti.com/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w-portable-power-station

That particular Bluette unit uses an LifePo4 battery pack, so would seem safer than some of the other options I've seen.

-Chris

I don't see this product serving the purpose you are intending to serve. There is no way to wire it into the panel, it does not have a direct AC input, and no transfer switching so you'd have to switch the fridges/freezer/ice maker/coffee maker all externally to this device, and then back to the ship's AC system.

It's also lacking in storage. Each fridge/freezer/ice maker will consume 400-600Whr overnight, with 4 units, that's 1600-2400 Whr of consumption from a 2000Whr device, nothing left to make coffee in the morning.

To do this, a mastervolt or victron inverter/charger solution with 4000+ Whr of battery storage behind it would do the job, and have a built in transfer switch that could be wired to your boat's system providing automatic switching from inverter power to generator/shore/etc... the wiring here is going to be a considerable exercise and cost as well.

On my boat, I'm running the fridge, a standard household upright fridge/freezer off a dedicated inverter. An inexpensive Victron Phoenix 1200VA pure sine unit (about $350) is overkill to do the job. At idle they use very little power (less than 1 amp at 12 volts) and if your fridge is compatible with eco mode idle usage is even lower. With that, my house bank just powers the fridge all the time and it gets charged up from any charging source I care to use.

You could do the same with 2 x 1200VA units, one for the two fridges and one for the freezer and ice maker. Just make sure your house bank is up to the task. Proper wiring and install of the Phoenix isn't too involved, mount it behind your fridges and you can just plug them into the unit directly.

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't see this product serving the purpose you are intending to serve. There is no way to wire it into the panel, it does not have a direct AC input, and no transfer switching so you'd have to switch the fridges/freezer/ice maker/coffee maker all externally to this device, and then back to the ship's AC system.

It's also lacking in storage. Each fridge/freezer/ice maker will consume 400-600Whr overnight, with 4 units, that's 1600-2400 Whr of consumption from a 2000Whr device, nothing left to make coffee in the morning.

To do this, a mastervolt or victron inverter/charger solution with 4000+ Whr of battery storage behind it would do the job, and have a built in transfer switch that could be wired to your boat's system providing automatic switching from inverter power to generator/shore/etc... the wiring here is going to be a considerable exercise and cost as well.

Thanks, I've come to the same conclusion.

And then I've recently been shopping on Mastervolt and Victron Energy inverter/chargers, to be linked to an (eventually) beefed-up battery bank that we already have.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/inverter-diesel-engine-room-how-bad-60173.html

-Chris

 

[Gdavid]

Thanks, I've come to the same conclusion.

And then I've recently been shopping on Mastervolt and Victron Energy inverter/chargers, to be linked to an (eventually) beefed-up battery bank that we already have.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/inverter-diesel-engine-room-how-bad-60173.html

-Chris

Lithium iron phosphate certainly seems like the future for rv and marine inverter banks, not all inverter chargers come with charging profiles optimized for them. I would definitely look for that capability even if you aren't planning to change batteries at this time.

 

[backinblue]

Seems pricey for just an inverter install but I did mine myself.
Rather than spend all that for a cup of coffee, why not time your battery charge with cooking time. We run the genny for a half to full hour in the morning and at dinner so we can use the microwave. Our stove is propane.

That's what I do. Run the genny in the morning for coffee and sometimes cooking breakfast while topping off the batteries. Same thing around dinner time usually. I dont use a lot of AC power when away from the dock, so I don't see a big need for an inverter. I'll admit that the power stations look great, but would be hard for me to justify the spend.

 

[ranger58sb]

Lithium iron phosphate certainly seems like the future for rv and marine inverter banks, not all inverter chargers come with charging profiles optimized for them. I would definitely look for that capability even if you aren't planning to change batteries at this time.

Yep, both of the models I've looked at most closely are LiFePO4 capable. Actually, charge profiles are customizable, too.

-Chris

 

[Gdavid]

Yep, both of the models I've looked at most closely are LiFePO4 capable. Actually, charge profiles are customizable, too.

-Chris

I replaced my combined house & start battery bank earlier in the season and considered a LiFePO4 house/inverter bank but didn't go that direction partly to avoid having to upgrade my inverter charger at the time. About 1 month later the inverter charger died

 

[Spinner]

Yes, I agree! It’s a pain to have to run a generator just to make coffee or keep the fridge going….

Sorry if this is a repeat suggestion: what about replacing fridge with a dual voltage? I just replaced my old one with another 12v / 110 v model. Switches automatically to whichever is available. For stoves I couldn’t do without my propane force 10.

 

[sbman]

Yes, I agree! It’s a pain to have to run a generator just to make coffee or keep the fridge going….

Sorry if this is a repeat suggestion: what about replacing fridge with a dual voltage? I just replaced my old one with another 12v / 110 v model. Switches automatically to whichever is available. For stoves I couldn’t do without my propane force 10.

Which model fridge did you use?

 

[Spinner]

The model I am installing is a Vitrifrigo DP2600. My prior fridge was a Tundra T80, which was changed to Vitrifrigo DP2600* same fridge same maker but changed names.

It will be installed Friday!

 

[ranger58sb]

Sorry if this is a repeat suggestion: what about replacing fridge with a dual voltage? I just replaced my old one with another 12v / 110 v model. Switches automatically to whichever is available.

That's what we've always had before. I'd consider switching if the originals crap out, but they're (I think expensive) Sub-Zero units that probably run to $3000-3500 apiece. Might also take significant work to get a DC circuit from panel to galley.

Can't see swapping out working units, at that cost. The inverter/charger path also power some other stuff...

-Chris

 

[backinblue]

Yes, I agree! It’s a pain to have to run a generator just to make coffee or keep the fridge going….

Sorry if this is a repeat suggestion: what about replacing fridge with a dual voltage? I just replaced my old one with another 12v / 110 v model. Switches automatically to whichever is available. For stoves I couldn’t do without my propane force 10.

I have a stovetop percolator to make coffee on a butane stove. I can cook on it too. It's just easier to run the generator and use the electric coffee maker and electric stove. My fridge runs off 12 or 120V, but by morning I like to top off the batteries anway so the generator does that pretty quickly at the same time.

 

[rslifkin]

Yes, I agree! It’s a pain to have to run a generator just to make coffee or keep the fridge going….

That was one of my big reasons for adding an inverter (and solar). I hated having to run the generator just to make coffee in the morning when we're away from shore power.

 

[rsn48]

I have an AGM battery power inverter. The inverter is good to a thousand watts, it has jumper cables for starter duties, USB ports, and a couple of AC plug in's. I bought the biggest one I could. This is the second one I've owned. And it has a air pressure motor to blow up my car and bike tires.

My first unit I used on my sailboat. I never used the jumper cables to start an engine but guys around me learned that I owned this battery unit and would bang on my boat when they couldn't get their engines started, we jump started two boats this way. I used it most often to run a small crappy inefficient cooler on my sailboat, made toast on my cheap toaster (cheap toaster are often below 1000 watts), used my cheap electric kettle.

The lithiums would last longer but if you are hitting a marina every week or so, the unit like I have would do and would save you a lot of money. Below is a link to what I have but mine is stronger and as I said can invert up to 1000 watts:

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-nautilus-battery-pack-800-a-0111592p.html#srp

 

[OldDan1943]

I have an AGM battery power inverter. The inverter is good to a thousand watts, it has jumper cables for starter duties, USB ports, and a couple of AC plug in's. I bought the biggest one I could. This is the second one I've owned. And it has a air pressure motor to blow up my car and bike tires.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-nautilus-battery-pack-800-a-0111592p.html#srp

Hmmmm, an interesting concept and solution.

 

[Iggy]

I have not read every single post. But some of these potable power supplies go for $2k to $3.5k. For that much $$$, why not go for lithium which would give you 30 to 40 percent more battery power.

Even adding adding solar would be a lot cheaper. I added a 330 watt system for under $550