Port of San Diego To Halt In-water Hull Cleaning Activities In SIYB This Winter

fstbttms · 07-03-2021, 10:38 AM

https://www.thelog.com/local/commiss...Gdvnggf26XE590

**Comodave** · 07-03-2021, 10:57 AM

We used to keep a boat in San Diego. Going 8 weeks without a cleaning wouldn’t be good. The bottom would get pretty bad in 8 weeks.

STB · 07-03-2021, 12:38 PM

I used to have a boat not far from there..

At least it is winter when the water is cold.

I'd estimate they get a lot less growth there in 2 months of winter than 1 month of late summer or early fall there. Certainly a lot less than we do in Florida in a month.

There I got it cleaned every month and it never looked bad. Here if it goes 2 weeks in the summer without me using it -- I'm looking for the diver.

**Comodave** · 07-03-2021, 01:18 PM

Fortunately where we live now in Michigan, we don’t have to do any cleaning during the season. They pressure wash it when we haul for the winter and that takes care of it.

socalrider · 07-03-2021, 02:13 PM

Yeah much slower growth in the winter - standard service is a scrub every 4 weeks in winter, 3 in summer, so this is basically just skipping a cleaning; not the end of the world. Seems like a good experiment to see the impact on copper levels if they can get compliance.

jungpeter · 07-05-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalrider

Yeah much slower growth in the winter - standard service is a scrub every 4 weeks in winter, 3 in summer, so this is basically just skipping a cleaning; not the end of the world. Seems like a good experiment to see the impact on copper levels if they can get compliance.

Yeah, and if they can actually measure the difference. Which I highly doubt, given the realities of measuring the change in the presence of copper levels in an environment subject to so many competing variables (time, tide, sunlight, city water runoff, etc.)

The Port of San Diego has chased it's tail for decades debating water quality in SD Bay. Sadly, the science is lacking (Shelter Island Yacht Basin, for example, ISN'T a closed, laboratory system). And yes, it's all about politics, making the Port Commissioners look good to the knowledgeable public, all the while beating up on the recreational boaters yet again.

Question to the Port Commision: How do you differentiate the copper content in the Shelter Island Yacht Basin deposited by hull cleaning, vs. that abraded off every brake shoe in the county that finds its way to the Basin floor? And do you really think a sample size of 8 weeks (out of ???? many) is scientifically justifiable?

Maintaining environmental health of our ocean environment is obviously in ALL our best interests. There has been a vast improvement in the San Diego Bay water quality in the last 70 years I've hung around in it. Heck, in the 60's, you swam the breaststroke in southbay to push the brown bass out of the way before the Navy decided to hook up their ship's sanitation systems to shoreside sewage treatment while dockside.

But this latest effort seems like trying to pick the flysh$% out of the pepper, and to the detriment of OTHER marine systems (such as fuel burn) that will be degraded accordingly. Yes, 3 week cleanings in the summer to defeat the tube worms is necessary.

Regards,

Pete

OldDan1943 · 07-05-2021, 04:13 PM

This is, IMO, California's effort to cast the blame entirely on recreational boaters.
What about the contribution of the huge container ships and cruise ships and all the work-boats, maybe their own fire-boats? Who's going to tell the USCG to use copper-free paint?
Sounds like the blossoming of yet another tax on recreational boaters.
The bottom of my boat (a tug) is painted with copper-free red paint.

Comodave, in the Great Lakes system, copper paint has been outlawed for at least 50 years, for recreational boaters. Again, both the US and Canada are ignoring the ore carriers and the 'salty freighters'. Thanks to freighters' pumping their ballast tank into the Great Lakes, the place is pretty much covered up with zebra mussels especially the municipal water intakes.
Let's face it, all recreational boater are all bad and that includes ice boats and driving you car on the ice. Let's tackle ice-fishing next.... poking unnecessary holes in the ice. I dont know of one ice fishing shanty that has been zoning approved.

rslifkin · 07-05-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Comodave, in the Great Lakes system, copper paint has been outlawed for at least 50 years, for recreational boaters. Again, both the US and Canada are ignoring the ore carriers and the 'salty freighters'. Thanks to freighters' pumping their ballast tank into the Great Lakes, the place is pretty much covered up with zebra mussels especially the municipal water intakes.
Let's face it, all recreational boater are all bad and that includes ice boats and driving you car on the ice. Let's tackle ice-fishing next.... poking unnecessary holes in the ice. I dont know of one ice fishing shanty that has been zoning approved.

Citation for the great lakes copper ban? Never heard of that one and marinas happily use the stuff around here.

RT Firefly · 07-05-2021, 08:35 PM

Greetings,
Mr. OD. I seem to remember the same here in Ontario as Mr rs. mentions. Just checked the can I bought, last year at the local chandlers. 47.5% copper and copper compounds.

Seevee · 07-05-2021, 08:57 PM

I wouldn't expect less from the California side. Need to take that state back.

OldDan1943 · 07-05-2021, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Citation for the great lakes copper ban? Never heard of that one and marinas happily use the stuff around here.

Cant provide it .... only hearsay about 50 years ago.
I dont live there anymore. SHRUG

I guess I better read up on my red paint.

OldDan1943 · 07-05-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seevee

I wouldn't expect less from the California side. Need to take that state back.

Cant happen without sweeping out the trash and tearing down the "kingdom walls"

Slider70 · 07-16-2021, 01:43 PM

You haven't been able to legally clean your hull in water in BC ports in Canada for some time as a result of Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO - Federal) law. Pretty well all tidal grid sites were closed once this law became public knowledge.

There are still a few tidal grids where you can do prop work or change zincs but these are disappearing fast for reasons of abuse as people ignore the ruling and so some cleaning of the hull.

I know some folks have still found a diver that will do in water cleaning but if caught by the DFO police the fined is prohibitive.

fstbttms · 07-16-2021, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Comodave, in the Great Lakes system, copper paint has been outlawed for at least 50 years, for recreational boaters.

100% not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

This is, IMO, California's effort to cast the blame entirely on recreational boaters.
What about the contribution of the huge container ships and cruise ships and all the work-boats, maybe their own fire-boats? Who's going to tell the USCG to use copper-free paint?

Not surprisingly, you completely miss the crux of the issue. The reason pleasure craft are being pointed out as the main source of copper loading in coastal waterways is because they tend to gather in large numbers in what are frequently poorly-flushed basins. Further, the vast majority of them spend most of their lives simply sitting, leaching copper biocide into the water. None of this is true of any other class of vessel, certainly not the vessels you pointed out as needing scrutiny.

OldDan1943 · 07-16-2021, 01:50 PM

Slider70, that's funny. The stuff on the hull came from the ocean and cleaning your hull amounts to 'returning it to the ocean.'

Guess you have to go out 3miles to clean your bottom?

rslifkin · 07-16-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Slider70, that's funny. The stuff on the hull came from the ocean and cleaning your hull amounts to 'returning it to the ocean.'

Guess you have to go out 3miles to clean your bottom?

I think the concern is more for any paint that gets dislodged in the process rather than the actual growth being removed.

Trimjb · 07-16-2021, 02:36 PM

My boat is in that test basin. Depending on water temperature sometimes once a month is not enough on an older paint system. They are taking winter time so colder water, less growth. Only question is - how many boats are going to be used underway during the winter to keep their growth levels down?
I'm thinking there will be a lot sneaky night time cleaning going on.

psneeld · 07-16-2021, 04:34 PM

I know the USCG was looking for alternatives to tin and copper back in the late 1980s.

Don't know what they are using now but pretty much the USCG tries to preempt anyone from telling them what to do and tries to be a leader in all its mission areas.

markpierce · 07-16-2021, 04:49 PM

What bottom paint does the USCG apply to their boat hulls?

rslifkin · 07-16-2021, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

I know the USCG was looking for alternatives to tin and copper back in the late 1980s.

Don't know what they are using now but pretty much the USCG tries to preempt anyone from telling them what to do and tries to be a leader in all its mission areas.

The aluminum hulled USCG boats locally appear to be unpainted. I've seen them periodically pop into the yard where I dock for a short haul so they can power wash the slime off, then back in the water.