Pod drive????

[Gordon J]

We are driving to look at a 2011 grand banks heritage in Italy tomorrow. It has pod drives. Anyone here have experience with them? I like the simplicity of a straight shaft, but maybe this is progress.

Thanks
Gordon

 

[Peter Keating]

Not sure here, but I'm on THT quite a bit and there's much discussion over there.

 

[tiltrider1]

When you say pod drives do you really mean Volvo IPS units?

 

[Gordon J]

These are cummins zeus models.

 

[Peter Keating]

When you say pod drives do you really mean Volvo IPS units?

There is also Zeus Drives: https://www.cummins.com/engines/zeus-and-cummins-inboard-joystick

 

[gsholz]

Be careful. These systems are very expensive to maintain and not very reliable. A quick search of the Internet will give you lots to read. Personally, I'd not consider a boat with pod drives.

An example:
https://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.cfm?CFAPP=6&Forum_ID=622&Thread_ID=72097

 

[FWT]

I was at the Newport boat show 10 days ago. I was astonished how common pods have become on large boats. Not for me. At all. But a generation of production has gone there. Well built used boats will be in short supply.

 

[Comodave]

Don’t know anything about the Zeus drives but read somewhere that the IPS drives had to be resealed every 4 to 5 years at about $5K per drive. This is secondhand info so don’t really know if it is true.

 

[ranger58sb]

These are cummins zeus models.

I think the Cummins/Zeus pairing has been orphaned. Not to say they can't be supported, I guess, but they're not selling many (any?) new ones AFAIK.

Volvo's IPS versions are still viable, and newer generations apparently don't need quite as much haul-out time. At least you can change gear oil from inside the boat, on newer versions.

-Chris

 

[porman]

A friend of mine has a boat with three Volvo pod drives. This last weekend the port engine shut down for an overheating transmission and no fluid pressure. That left him with the center and starboard engines. But those two work as a master and slave with only one control, so they are both in forward or both in reverse. It was exciting getting it to the dock. To check the transmission fluid level you have to let it cool down for 12 hours. Also, the dipstick is all the way at the back of the pod. I managed to squeeze between the engines and check the fluid. The level was good and the fluid was not burnt and no evidence of water. Now he needs a Volvo technician to figure it out.

 

[BandB]

While I'd be neutral in considering IPS, I'd have to discourage purchasing Zeus. At one time, captains whose experience I trust, liked them better than IPS. However, the disbanding of the Cummins/Mercury partnership and the lack of continued effort and promotion lead me to treat it as a failed experiment with future challenges finding support.

 

[Adopo]

There are tons of Sabre yachts with pods, considered one, but hesitated and it sold (rare 54 with flybridge). Seems you are most better off with standard drives, but that joystick sideways thingie and more speed could be appealing.

 

[Larry M]

Reach out to Forum member Bigsfish (Irv). His last Grandbanks had Zeus pods and I believe he sold it because of them. One of the problems was the autopilot talking to the drives.

The boat because of the drives had an interesting below deck layout. The area where normal engines would be was a huge storage area accessed from the salon.

 

[Gordon J]

Cummins is still marketing the zeus as far as I can tell.

 

[BandB]

Cummins is still marketing the zeus as far as I can tell.

Volvo IPS dwarfs them in sales though. One issue is using Cummins and not offering larger engines.

 

[tiltrider1]

Well Gordon J, I think you have heard the opinion of this crowd on Zeus Pods

Don’t know anything about the Zeus drives but read somewhere that the IPS drives had to be resealed every 4 to 5 years at about $5K per drive. This is secondhand info so don’t really know if it is true.

Comodave, it may be second hand info but it is still fairly accurate. The local Volvo dealer refers to IPS units as guaranteed future employment.

 

[OldDan1943]

One of the advantage of a trawler is the protected running gear.

My brother had Volvo pod drives and 'sold' on them until "something" happened, loss of the ability to steer or control the throttles on his boat and piled up on some rocks as he was trying to reenter the yacht club basin.

Then there is the "Z Drive". I saw one installation on a fairly large trawler.
I personal thought it would be a great alternative to shaft and rudder design. It rotated 360 degrees and did not have a rudder. I guess it just never caught on. SHRUG

The disadvantage of both the pod drives and Z drive is, as I understand it, no skeg to protect the running gear.

 

[markpierce]

Give me keel-protected propeller, shaft and rudder; or give me death.

 

[gt7834a]

I am actually fascinated by this because if you read the Internet everyone hates them. However tons of new boats come with them. So clearly manufacturers believe that their clients want them. No idea which is the correct answer.

 

[O C Diver]

I wouldn't consider owning any of the pod drives based on poor experiences by friends. Irv had problems with his and sold the boat mostly because of those problems.

Probably the worst in my opinion are the Volvo pods facing forward. While it is more efficient to pull a boat with the props facing forward, there is absolutely zero protection for the propellers. Someone posted a picture of one or both pods (forward facing) having eaten a modest log. Luckily only the props got mangled. I guess if you boat where there is never debris in the water, they would be a good idea.

Ted

 

[Bacchus]

The Big Plus is maneuverability but the BIG Minus is they are unprotected. If you boat in an area with any floating or submerged hazards I would have reservations.
I can provide details of an encounter with a log and IPS. I will say they were rugged and no damage to the drive / shafts but the props were near totalled. A very good prop shop restored them at a cost.

 

[Scooby5959]

When it comes to Boats ,specifically trawlers ,my motto is simple is better ,they have a cool factor, who doesn’t like cool , I can’t afford cool,I’ve been looking into controllable pitch propeller ,So I can do away with the transmission ,gearbox turns out they recommend keeping the gearbox for the gear reduction, controllable pitch propeller would be pretty simple ,And very useful for other things like fuel economy

 

[Scooby5959]

Cool sells boats

I was at the Newport boat show 10 days ago. I was astonished how common pods have become on large boats. Not for me. At all. But a generation of production has gone there. Well built used boats will be in short supply.

Another thought just popped into my jumbled up P brain , people want flashy ,cool they don’t think too much about Specing it properly, really sucks for people like me who buy secondhand ,trying to find a boat properly Spect out boat,trophies that hardly get used ,my boat is 38 years old and has less than 2000 hours , they look cool sitting there at the dock

 

[FF]

"However tons of new boats come with them. So clearly manufacturers believe that their clients want them."

With the right computer the boat can easily be docked by a novice.

I think that's the main draw .

Now that Duramax and other modern shaft packing is available, the tried and true shaft and prop is still the most long lived. Even with a bit more complex CPP the std running gear is best choice.

 

[ranger58sb]

Cummins is still marketing the zeus as far as I can tell.

I had thought when Cummins and Mercury (Brunswick) separated, the Zeus drive disappeared. If Cummins is still supporting, that would maybe improve my outlook on them. I think the pods were (are?) made by ZF, and they're respectable.

Volvo IPS dwarfs them in sales though. One issue is using Cummins and not offering larger engines.

Adding to that... In early days, Volvo IPS sizes were limited, too... to the extent than one boat model I know of was built with three modest-HP IPS systems... when it would have been better with two larger versions. But Volvo didn't make larger versions, at the time.

If Cummins is offering Zeus drives with QSB, QSC, and QSM engines, that'd cover a relatively wide range of boats -- even if not B&B-size ships.

-Chris

 

[OldDan1943]

Scooby5959, You broached an interesting subject and no one picked up on it, variable pitch controlled props. I wonder why.
Today's installations do not require a hand wheel to change the pitch (speed) nor direction.

 

[BandB]

If Cummins is offering Zeus drives with QSB, QSC, and QSM engines, that'd cover a relatively wide range of boats -- even if not B&B-size ships.

-Chris

Zeus never took off with Sea Ray or any Brunswick brand which hurt it significantly vs. hopes. Even the L Series, it was offered on the 59 but not the 65. Zeus didn't even offer the horsepower needed for the 65. A few brands, like Sabre, used it successfully. Virtually no European manufacturers went with Zeus and many went with IPS. Now it also finds itself sandwiched as outboards come up in power.

The horsepower limitations made it hard for builders to promote. Yes, adequate at 40'. However, not so as they approached 50'. Then back to either triples or another approach. So, hard to promote for a full line of boats and if you were going to use IPS on your 50', then also on your 40'.

Brands like Prestige and Princess who were early and strong adapters of IPS never, to my knowledge, used Zeus.

 

[BandB]

Just a recap of some pros and cons of pods, focusing mainly on IPS and boats 60' and under.

Negatives:
-Initial cost
-Maintenance cost is slightly more but not as much as often suggested by detractors.

Positives:
-Space savings in a boat designed for them
-Ease of use. Docking gets attention but the sky hook functions and others are attractive and while all is available for non-pods, just promoted more for pods and better integrated.
-Speed and efficiency. More speed and less fuel consumption at planing speeds.

While there have been many unhappy pod owners, especially early adapters, there are now thousands of boats with pods and with happy pod owners.

On this forum, shallow water and running aground often get mentioned. Many cruisers throughout the world don't face problems to the same extent in that regard. They don't cruise grounds like the GA or NJ ICW. The Mediterranean boater doesn't face that. Italian and British builders don't get the same feedback locally that we see here on TF and while the US market is important to them, it typically is 15% or less of their sales.

One other impact I've seen. It gave Volvo a tremendous inroad into the recreational boating market and they're expanding that by being exclusive or dominant to many builders now, for pods and for traditional shaft drives. It's given them inroads into increasing market share.

 

[AdmiralS]

While I'd be neutral in considering IPS, I'd have to discourage purchasing Zeus. At one time, captains whose experience I trust, liked them better than IPS. However, the disbanding of the Cummins/Mercury partnership and the lack of continued effort and promotion lead me to treat it as a failed experiment with future challenges finding support.

Could not agree more with this!

 

[sunchaser]

Boat builders have moved to outboards on many vessels in the 30-50 foot range. This boating tsunami has greatly lessened the perceived advantages of pods on these types of vessels.

Our slow trawlers have never been a fit for pods thus the genres favoring of straight shafts. We've some friends who have gravitated towards seriously considering a Back Cove with outboards Vs one with straight shafts and diesel or a Sabre with pods.

Outboard designed vessel choices are so numerous and popular that specialty boats like trawlers (real ones that are in a very small market) get short mention in boat design articles.