PNW - Winter heating options

[twistedtree]

Can't edit but need to correct. Home furnaces are designed for #1 fuel and marine furnaces are designed for #2 fuel oil

Perhaps in Alaska, but in all my experience, primarily in the US northeast, home heating oil is exactly the same thing as off-road diesel. Heating oil is permitted to have higher sulfur content, but in practice it doesn't.

 

[syjos]

Burning kerosene in a diesel heater will reduce soot and keep it clean

 

[Retriever]

Towards the beginning and end of the season on Lake Ontario I just leave one of my A/C units on in reverse cycle heat mode. Makes sure the boat doesn't get too cold inside if we get an overnight cold snap while it's not winterized. And keeps it warm enough to keep humidity from being an issue as well. If the boat is at a dock with shore power and water temps of 40+, that's probably the route I'd go.

I've often done the same thing, especially when the temps are going to be below freezing for several consecutive days. My Cruisairs have reverse cycle heat as well as heat strips. When leaving the boat unattended, which one is better to use?

Seems to me the heat strips are less efficient (I don't have metered shore power, so don't really care), but have far fewer moving parts, less wear and tear on the system, and don't depend on seawater flow, which could be impeded or flood the boat.

I also leave one or two of these dehumidifiers going, they're fairly compact and throw off quite a bit of heat: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B8SCPZ4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A friend compared the fuel burn for his Olympia boiler to the electrical consumption heating the boat with reverse cycle and found it is much, much cheaper in the PNW with our cheap electricity to heat the boat with reverse cycle. But diesel heat is typically quieter, ducted low in the boat so it provides a more even heat, and can operate off house batteries when at anchor, among other benefits.

 

[twistedtree]

I think you and Twistedtree live in two different worlds. TT is probably running something like an Olympia or Kobala furnace. These designs are similar to home oil furnaces and they run perfectly well 24/7.

I think you are right, and I agree that the specific situation will make a difference and can lead you to different solutions. I personally favor running a boiler (an Olympia as you guessed) or a large electric load. I have heated my boat with electric resistance heat that's built into the HVAC air handlers, and it pretty well maxes out a 50A shore service. Even running reverse cycle heat pushes the limits. I would not be comfortable running either of those long term, unattended. Not so much because I don't trust teh boat's electrical system, but because I have no way of assessing the shore power connection. With diesel heat, my electric load is no more than 10% of the shore power's capacity.


So I think if you can heat your boat as desired while staying below maybe 25% load on the shore power, it's likely just fine. I would also want to see interior outlets similarly loaded, as I have seen too many burned and charred outlets from heavy continuous loads.

 

[rslifkin]

So I think if you can heat your boat as desired while staying below maybe 25% load on the shore power, it's likely just fine. I would also want to see interior outlets similarly loaded, as I have seen too many burned and charred outlets from heavy continuous loads.

I agree, it's worth being extra conservative for unattended use. If I have just the 16k reverse cycle in my salon running, it'll cycle rather than running constantly in heat mode. And at most it draws about 15 amps including the pump (on a 50A leg). I don't like running more than that unattended.

 

[GoneFarrell]

Retriever,
Thanks for the tip on the desiccant dehumidifier. Just what I need for my boat wintering in La La Conner!

 

[nobles9596]

I installed a Mitsubishi split unit on mine. It took only one 3 inch hole outside for all the lines. It is a lot more reliable and more efficient than a marine unit. No sea strainers to ever clean and don't need to pump water into my boat. You are starting to see many boats with them. I also have for very cold days an 8k diesel heater that puts out 200F heat. Very happy!

 

[sean9c]

I don't know about anyone else but as a mere mortal when I set up winter heating with a dehumidifier and a couple of oil heaters set as low as they'd go, around 50F, I was pretty shocked by what it did to my monthly marina electric bill. Pretty easy to add a couple hundred dollars to the bill.
Now I just throw on a few of those little pancake fan deals, seems to be fine.
Years ago a big Meridian in the marina kept their diesel heater going all winter. First sign of trouble was when the bilge pumps started pumping out diesel.

 

[dhays]

Retriever, I have wondered about those dessicated dehumidifiers. I have used the Peltier and compressor dehumidifiers. The compressor types are very effective, but also noisy, heavy, and use a fair amount of electricity. The Peltier are lightweight, quiet, use less power yet aren't nearly as effective.

The dessicant dehumidifiers may split the difference.

 

[ksanders]

Perhaps in Alaska, but in all my experience, primarily in the US northeast, home heating oil is exactly the same thing as off-road diesel. Heating oil is permitted to have higher sulfur content, but in practice it doesn't.

In the lower 48 heating oil varies by the time of year you buy it then? Having a higher jell point in the summer and getting lower as winter sets in? I guess that works but to an Alaskan it is a recipe for disaster.



Here heating oil is always #1 diesel. They do that because they do not know how quickly it will be used and the devices it will be used in.

Our "regular" diesel that is used in vehicles varies by month based on the normal cold temperatures. In the summer it is basically #2 and it gets blended to a point where it is basically #1 in the winter.

I have a truck that I do not put many miles on and have to be careful when I fill it up because I have had it jell up... if I for example fill it up in September and have not run through that tank until November.

 

[Haloo]

Retriever, I have wondered about those dessicated dehumidifiers. I have used the Peltier and compressor dehumidifiers. The compressor types are very effective, but also noisy, heavy, and use a fair amount of electricity. The Peltier are lightweight, quiet, use less power yet aren't nearly as effective.

The dessicant dehumidifiers may split the difference.

I have the dessicant dehumidifier Retriever mentions. It works amazingly well and a lot lighter in weight than a compressor version. I use it in our camper as well as on the boat. This particular dehumidifier is known to develop a “ticking” sound, but doesn’t seem to impact its effectiveness.

 

[Retriever]

Retriever, I have wondered about those dessicated dehumidifiers. I have used the Peltier and compressor dehumidifiers. The compressor types are very effective, but also noisy, heavy, and use a fair amount of electricity. The Peltier are lightweight, quiet, use less power yet aren't nearly as effective.

The dessicant dehumidifiers may split the difference.

Yes, I think the dessicant dehumidifier splits the difference. If we’re on the boat and it’s running in continuous mode it fills up twice a day normally in the PNW. Lots better than the little Evadry’s!

When we have guests onboard and it’s cold and we’re sleeping with all the windows/ports and doors closed in our cabin, I keep it going set to 60% humidity. Doesn’t use much power, keeps things a bit warmer, and everything below the waterline isn’t sweating in the morning.

 

[twistedtree]

In the lower 48 heating oil varies by the time of year you buy it then? Having a higher jell point in the summer and getting lower as winter sets in? I guess that works but to an Alaskan it is a recipe for disaster.







Here heating oil is always #1 diesel. They do that because they do not know how quickly it will be used and the devices it will be used in.



Our "regular" diesel that is used in vehicles varies by month based on the normal cold temperatures. In the summer it is basically #2 and it gets blended to a point where it is basically #1 in the winter.



I have a truck that I do not put many miles on and have to be careful when I fill it up because I have had it jell up... if I for example fill it up in September and have not run through that tank until November.

Ok, definitely a regional thing. Road, off road, and heating oil at least in New England are always #2. But in the winter it’s treated to lower the gel point. And if you aren’t paying attention, you can definitely end up with jelly in you fuel system. Don’t ask how I know.

I keep a bulk tank at my house and always treat it myself immediately after delivery. Then I don’t have to worry about what I filled when, and what unhappiness might result in the depths of winter.

 

[ksanders]

Ok, definitely a regional thing. Road, off road, and heating oil at least in New England are always #2. But in the winter it’s treated to lower the gel point. And if you aren’t paying attention, you can definitely end up with jelly in you fuel system. Don’t ask how I know.

I keep a bulk tank at my house and always treat it myself immediately after delivery. Then I don’t have to worry about what I filled when, and what unhappiness might result in the depths of winter.

I have a several hundred gallon tank for my generators.

Edit... I used to have a several hundred gallon fuel tank for my generators. Now my wife has a several hundred gallon fuel tank for her generators.

Yes I would be 100% unhappy if my fuel gelled up.

 

[Jdornick]

Hello,

Did some searching on this with lots of results on heating options, but nothing specific to recommendations for a non-liveaboard winter boat heating.

I have a new-to-me 1981 42' CHB that I've relocated to Seattle and I'm looking to prepare for the winter rain and cold season. The boat is moored in an open slip with standard 30amp shore power and I won't be living aboard. Mostly looking for how to keep the boat dry and secure with reasonable electrical expenses.

Am currently installing a Dickinson Newport diesel cabin heater in the salon and also looking to purchase a mid-sized de-humidifier. Also thinking about installing a 5KW forced air diesel furnace to heat the forward and aft cabins. Diesel makes great sense for winter cruising, but probably don't want to have the diesel heaters running at the dock unattended.

I'm new to Seattle and also these older antique wooden interior trawlers and looking for suggestions on the quickly approaching rain and cold season.

I was also considering a ductless mini-split heat pump. They have great efficiency, but the units are really big and I'm not thrilled about cutting big holes in the cabin to run the coolant lines. Might be nice to have AC, but in Seattle, and later Alaska, that's really not a big consideration.

What are other folks using to keep their boats snug and cozy at the dock in the winter?

Thanks!
-Rusty[/QUOT

Hello,
We winter in Seattle and use a combo of space heaters, built in heater and our hydronic heater for anchoring. If you care to discuss further feel free to private message me. Good luck.

 

[Rigtyme]

Hello Rusty
We had our boat in Seattle for a winter, basically unattended. We used three catalytic heaters from West Marine. One in the engine room and two in the cabin. We had no problems. They are cheap and draw very little. Something to consider.

 

[Bryant]

heater

Hello,

Did some searching on this with lots of results on heating options, but nothing specific to recommendations for a non-liveaboard winter boat heating.

I have a new-to-me 1981 42' CHB that I've relocated to Seattle and I'm looking to prepare for the winter rain and cold season. The boat is moored in an open slip with standard 30amp shore power and I won't be living aboard. Mostly looking for how to keep the boat dry and secure with reasonable electrical expenses.

Am currently installing a Dickinson Newport diesel cabin heater in the salon and also looking to purchase a mid-sized de-humidifier. Also thinking about installing a 5KW forced air diesel furnace to heat the forward and aft cabins. Diesel makes great sense for winter cruising, but probably don't want to have the diesel heaters running at the dock unattended.

I'm new to Seattle and also these older antique wooden interior trawlers and looking for suggestions on the quickly approaching rain and cold season.

I was also considering a ductless mini-split heat pump. They have great efficiency, but the units are really big and I'm not thrilled about cutting big holes in the cabin to run the coolant lines. Might be nice to have AC, but in Seattle, and later Alaska, that's really not a big consideration.

What are other folks using to keep their boats snug and cozy at the dock in the winter?

Thanks!
-Rusty

A 16,000 BTU Marinaire unit can be bought and installed for $2500 or less. It will heat and cool (which you won't need often) a large saloon quite well. It runs off dock power or your gen. That's what I have and I'm quite happy.

 

[sean9c]

But if you're trying to heat a 42ft boat in a PNW winter you'll need more like 40-50k btu's

A 16,000 BTU Marinaire unit can be bought and installed for $2500 or less. It will heat and cool (which you won't need often) a large saloon quite well. It runs off dock power or your gen. That's what I have and I'm quite happy.

 

[firehoser75]

I have owned a boat in this area for many years. I do not use the boat in the winter, as we felt we got enough boating for the 3+ months we were on board every spring/summer, so I "winterized" the boat for the season. I would go "overkill" for what some would think, but I always felt it worked very well for me.

I always drained the freshwater system including the water heater and water tank. I did this more for having a "clean" system more than a freezing prevention measure. Every spring, I would "clean and sanitize" the water system before the season (following Peggy Hall's advice), and we drank the water we had in the system. It always tasted and smelled good.
I posted what I have found to work well (in both a sailboat and my Nordic Tug) over the years in Post #13 (copied below to save anyone having to look back). Neither of these boats had a mildew issue or any "off putting" smells. To achieve that, you must have a warm (doesn't need much), dry boat.


"I do support the use of a dehumidifier, but you will have to ensure that the on board humidity does not get too low (wooden boat). I would aim for 50-60% humidity. You can use a "home use' "weather station" to obtain readings, and some models of dehumidifiers can be set for a user determined humidity. added: I used a "home style" dehumidifier bought at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. something like this one - https://www.homedepot.ca/product/to...ith-continuous-operation-function-/1001233850
I also support the engine oil pan heater (about 250 watts so no big draw). It is left on all the time at dock. It keeps the engine warm and dry, helps with circulating warm air in the ER and basically eliminates rust and moisture in the ER. Also, the engine will fire up quickly with "pre-warmed oil" for less wear and tear on start up (it flows easier when warm).
You can use some heat appliances and small fans to move air around to supplement the dehumidifier and reduce any chance of mold/mildew. Heat sources could include oil filled radiators, the small round (some are square) about 100 watt heaters added link https://www.fisheriessupply.com/caframo-stor-dry-electric-warm-air-circulator-with-fan/9406caabx, etc. to "keep the chill off" if desired. Leave cupboards, interior doors and hatches open, and close up windows and exterior hatches.
Keep track of your amperage draw, and ensure you are not above 20 amps (for 30 amp service) for any sustained period (not just for your pocketbook), but using the above methods, you should not be anywhere near 20 amps continuous draw.
I like a diesel furnace for keeping the boat warm when on board. Espar, Webasto, etc. There are a few options."

The dehumidifier(s) (depending on boat layout, you could use more than one) can be set up to drain overboard using a short hose led to a sink drain, or just need to empty the catchment buckets regularly. When the bucket gets full, the unit shuts off so no "overfilling" and spillage.
Good luck.

 

[chesnut]

The water in Puget sound is about 45 degrees year around so freezing is not a problem. You need air circulation more than heat. I have a low watt heat lamp shining on my engine block. It keeps the engine room dry and helps circulate air in the cabin probably the same way a block heater would. I have never used more than the minimum charge for electricity. The boat is in covered moorage in LaConner, WA

 

[ksanders]

If I were leaving my boat unattended in the greater seattle area I think that a couple of compressor type dehumidifiers would do the trick with backup of another source on thermostat.

The compressor type dehumidifiers generate more heat than one thinks.

 

[JDCAVE]

This, to me, is the big concern, with shore cords and dock/boat inlets as the weak points. It's something where at best I have control over only half of it.

All across the country thousands of oil burners run 24x7, unattended, for decades. Lots of safeties are built in, and they are super reliable. I don't see running it on a boat as any different.

Except fans on furnaces fail too. At our old house the fan on our “old” forced-air gas furnace failed and blew acrid smoke all over the house as it failed. Quite scary, although there was no fire. But the fire department came to check things out.

Jim

 

[Bill V]

About 12 years ago I installed a Propex HeatSource HS2800 10,000 BTU Forced Air Propane Heater that operates on 12 Volts in my cabin. I do have a propane detector mounted below propane connection at furnace for safety. Works excellent and was not too difficult to install. Cost complete was about $1300. Because I chose a rather high BTU model it takes very little time to heat cabin in cold weather and is thermostat controlled. Lots of safety features and uses very little propane to keep cabin at a comfortable 70* in 40* weather. I use about 3-5 pounds of propane a year during the 6-7 months boat is in water.. Sure Marine in Ballard is selling dealer. https://www.suremarineservice.com/Heat/Propex-Propane-Forced-Air-Heaters/

 

[FF]

3 to 5 pounds of propane in 6 months?

1 lb. of Propane 21,600 BTU