Pinned to the dock

[Fish53]

Is it really all that hard to figure that not all swim platforms are created equal? ( size, shape, strength, repair.....)

Or variables about the docks you need to pivot away from can complicate things?

Or that different amounts of everage and therefore force may be required to accomplish what you need to overcome the wind or current?

So many ifs on a forward after spring. I think usually less so on an after bow spring...but still quite a few ifs.

Lastly is some boats and crews are difficult to spring because of layouts, shapes, number of crew, dock hands available or not, location of places to run the spring to....

Actually most boats have so much flare to the bow it makes springing on the bow difficult. You are correct however that each situation is unique so unless you only tie up in the same place in the same wind, same crew, current and tide level it appears some flexibility may be useful, that's why I have more than just a screwdriver in my toolbox and why I referenced seamanship.

 

[rslifkin]

Actually most boats have so much flare to the bow it makes springing on the bow difficult. You are correct however that each situation is unique so unless you only tie up in the same place in the same wind, same crew, current and tide level it appears some flexibility may be useful, that's why I have more than just a screwdriver in my toolbox and why I referenced seamanship.

The only time I've had the flare present an issue is on a low dock with pilings or other objects sticking up. If it's a high wall or just a low dock, no problem. Either you fender and touch at rub rail height, or below that and the rub rail area overhangs the dock a bit.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yup, you’re right 37,000 lbs sailboat with 90hp at shaft engine and 8hp bow thruster. Dinghy with 20hp. Wife (4’10” 100lbs) and me. No one else around to help. Do like Fish’s comment you do need multiple tools. See the work boats in marinas move boats around which gave us the thought to try the dinghy.

 

[Fish53]

The only time I've had the flare present an issue is on a low dock with pilings or other objects sticking up. If it's a high wall or just a low dock, no problem. Either you fender and touch at rub rail height, or below that and the rub rail area overhangs the dock a bit.

I'm sure I can conjure up scenarios all day long for why this or that will or won't work but I don't believe that would be productive, other than to get someone to disagree for some arcane reason. I respectfully suggest you handle your boat as you see fit and I'll do likewise.

 

[Fish53]

Yup, you’re right 37,000 lbs sailboat with 90hp at shaft engine and 8hp bow thruster. Dinghy with 20hp. Wife (4’10” 100lbs) and me. No one else around to help. Do like Fish’s comment you do need multiple tools. See the work boats in marinas move boats around which gave us the thought to try the dinghy.

I had a 18 foot rigid inflatable with a 40hp outboard as a rescue boat on the trawler in my avatar that I used more than once as a handy docking tug. Like I've been saying all it takes is an open mind and some decent seamanship.

 

[firehoser75]

How does one gain these "seamanship" skills???
Formal training (as in Navy or Commercial boating), various "training academies", etc. is one method, but I would think I am not far wrong when I say the average pleasure boater does not have any of that.
Also, most "untrained" pleasure boaters hesitate to try something new, unless they have it from what to them is a "good source" that the procedure will work and "what it actually is" (how to do it). Hence, this type of forum, where sometimes the discussion can get a bit "in depth", can become a valuable source of info. As the threads get longer, it soon becomes apparent what techniques are most favoured, giving a good indication of a "place to start". That is how a lot of "regular" boaters "further their knowledge and skills". Getting ideas that to them make sense, and then trying them out, hopefully at first under controlled conditions.
Just my random thoughts.

 

[HTurner]

How does one gain these "seamanship" skills???
Formal training (as in Navy or Commercial boating), various "training academies", etc. is one method, but I would think I am not far wrong when I say the average pleasure boater does not have any of that.
Also, most "untrained" pleasure boaters hesitate to try something new, unless they have it from what to them is a "good source" that the procedure will work and "what it actually is" (how to do it). Hence, this type of forum, where sometimes the discussion can get a bit "in depth", can become a valuable source of info. As the threads get longer, it soon becomes apparent what techniques are most favoured, giving a good indication of a "place to start". That is how a lot of "regular" boaters "further their knowledge and skills". Getting ideas that to them make sense, and then trying them out, hopefully at first under controlled conditions.
Just my random thoughts.

Though perhaps some may scoff:


https://asa.com/certifications/


Specifically:

ASA 105
ASA 107
ASA 117
ASA 118
ASA 119

 

[firehoser75]

I agree there are places where interested boaters can obtain training. Personally I have taken most of the listed above (comparable) through the Canadian Power and Sail Squadron, and many hands on sessions through Cooper Boating in Vancouver offering Canadian Sailing Assoc. certification.
I know a fair number of boaters, and I only know one (couple) who has taken more training (higher level) than I have. Not trying to brag, (nothing to brag about in my opinion) just saying in my experience most boaters do not have much in the way of 'formal training'.
I think the gist of my earlier post is mostly true. My opinion, not the result of any "scientific study".

 

[OldDan1943]

Though perhaps some may scoff:


https://asa.com/certifications/


Specifically:

ASA 105
ASA 107
ASA 117
ASA 118
ASA 119

Well, I guess the recommendations are dependent on the type of boat you have or are considering.
For power boating, I suggest Chapman's school (professional level) or Sea School. I am sure there are other options. I know Chapman's is a intense, residential school, I forgot how many weeks. I am not familiar with Sea School. I believe both of those school will prepare folks for the Captain's exam. I went to Chapman's, took and passed the Captain's exam. I needed to get sea time, I opted not to complete that part.

 

[HTurner]

Well, I guess the recommendations are dependent on the type of boat you have or are considering.
For power boating, I suggest Chapman's school (professional level) or Sea School. I am sure there are other options. I know Chapman's is a intense, residential school, I forgot how many weeks. I am not familiar with Sea School. I believe both of those school will prepare folks for the Captain's exam. I went to Chapman's, took and passed the Captain's exam. I needed to get sea time, I opted not to complete that part.

Yeah, I guess, radar, navigation and the like are different between sailboats and power (see the specific ones I listed.) I think going to ASA for the average guy who just want to take a radar class or formally learn the "rules of the road" may be a good thing. Also, ASA courses are offered around the country.

 

[HTurner]

I forgot to mention another alternative for course work:


https://www.usps.org/index.php/courses-another-version

 

[OldDan1943]

Chapman's also have or had a ASA school too.
Personally, I had enough sailing when I was younger. SMIRK
Now, I enjoy the comforting sound of a diesel.
I recall a couple who owned a nice sail boat. They said, if they could not make 6 knots under sail, they would start the engine. LOL

 

[dhays]

I haven’t had any formal training. It would be nice. In thinking about it, I think there have been only three ways I’ve learned anything about boat handling.

1. What my Dad and Mom taught me; Learned a ton about handling sailboats up to about 30’ from them.

2. What I figured would work; My own reason and imagination has given me all kinds of ideas. Some of them actually worked. Some of those were actually good ideas. The good ones were then refined with practice. The bad ideas were tossed out with the thought “I’m never going to try that again”.

3. Ideas that I’ve gleaned from other folks; that could be folks on the dock, my boating friends, or virtual boating acquaintances such as TF. Ideas are tried, the good ones kept and practiced.

 

[Benthic2]

If you are in a seasonal boating area, the ends of the season are great to practice maneuvers because the marinas are usually less than half full. I think pilots call them "touch and go's" but if you want to try something new, an empty section of a marina is a great practice area. I think most dockmasters would be fine with you taking up space for a few hours in an area that was unoccupied even if it wasn't your slip, as long as you let them know what you're doing. An easy throttle, liberal use of fenders and a little humility and you can make a lot of progress in a little time. (Just think of the entertainment you will provide for the judgemental non boat owners that sit at the bar all day!)

 

[Fish53]

How does one gain these "seamanship" skills???
Formal training (as in Navy or Commercial boating), various "training academies", etc. is one method, but I would think I am not far wrong when I say the average pleasure boater does not have any of that.
Also, most "untrained" pleasure boaters hesitate to try something new, unless they have it from what to them is a "good source" that the procedure will work and "what it actually is" (how to do it). Hence, this type of forum, where sometimes the discussion can get a bit "in depth", can become a valuable source of info. As the threads get longer, it soon becomes apparent what techniques are most favoured, giving a good indication of a "place to start". That is how a lot of "regular" boaters "further their knowledge and skills". Getting ideas that to them make sense, and then trying them out, hopefully at first under controlled conditions.
Just my random thoughts.

Like most skills a classroom can only do so much. For some of the more technical skills like electronics and engines a classroom is a great start but for most of the more traditional maritime skills practice and experience are necessary. Think about the first time you tried to tie a bowline, it's a fairly simple task but it probably took you a number of tries before you you could do it without looking at a book or being shown again. Well it takes a few more tries to be able to tie a bowline in 3 inch line, at night, in 20 degrees Fahrenheit, snowing hard and blowing 80kts on a wildly pitching deck. Like playing a musical instrument, you have to develop hand memory so you don't need to think about "the rabbit goes around the tree". Now apply that to a few thousand other simple skills that are easy in a classroom and you get the picture. Like boat handling it's all best practiced under less than ideal circumstances because that's when you may need them most.
As for where to find information about this stuff, well there's plenty of books that address these things, every beginning boater should have Chapmans. There's probably some old fellow sitting on a dock or in a marina that would be happy to share a bit of knowledge. There are classes but they seem to be of varying quality, I've gone to the Maine Maritime Academy for quite a few things and they've been great but of course mostly focused on professionals but they do have yacht classes last I looked.

 

[koliver]

Lots of good suggestions above. I only add one.
Practice, practice, practice. It is very easy to grasp on to one of the good ideas, but without practice, very difficult to make it work for you, especially the first time.

 

[Hippocampus]

Some of the worse crew I’ve had have done every ASA level.

Gotten to the point I ignore ASA and the lower levels of US captain tickets when vetting crew.

Unfortunately nothing teaches like experience. Crewing for others and having crew teach you isn’t some theoretical construct. It’s reality. Over the years and miles you gradually see more and more situations and learn to handle them safely and efficiently. As you increase your horizons and the ambitiousness of your transits you increase your skill set and confidence.

There are highly skilled professionals posting here and cruisers with tens of thousands of miles under their keels. I listen closely to those old salts and continue to learn from them. Regardless of years on the water some less analytical people have been not doing best practices but have been lucky so you need to distinguish between the two.

Yes, you need the theoretical knowledge but to keep a cool head and intuitively behave correctly and well there’s nothing like experience especially with a good mentor at times

For training like,RYC. Do respect the yachtmaster credential. So far everyone I’ve run across with that credential have been good seamen/sea women.

 

[HTurner]

Some of the worse crew I’ve had have done every ASA level.

Gotten to the point I ignore ASA and the lower levels of US captain tickets when vetting crew.

The thing with any course work, especially this type, is putting it into practice. Without practice and learned experience, no matter what school, it will become useless. This is only proven by those with no formal training excelling in boat "handling."



ASA is a good place to familiarize the basics.

 

[firehoser75]

I totally agree with the above. Classroom, while offering a good opportunity to increase your knowledge, interact with other more experienced boaters (maybe), and to learn the theory of new "skills", nothing replaces hands on training for skills and lots of practise.
As an example, I have learned a lot of excellent, and in my opinion, (mostly) needed information from the various Power Squadron courses, specialty courses, boat show "boat university" courses and presentations, and online sources. However, nothing could replace the "hands on", on the water training we were lucky enough to secure. One full day with an instructor and just my wife and I where all we did was close quarters boat handling and docking, and another several years later full day with the Captain of a large yacht (100 plus feet) doing the same thing on our "new to us" power boat. Both of these were invaluable and gave us many skills and most importantly confidence (but not over confidence). When we first started boating we took a one week on the water course from Cooper Boating that covered both classroom and hands on. For a "beginner", that course was great.

Like a stated earlier, (IMHO) experience is a great teacher for those who pay attention and are "open" to the lessons, but if one relies solely on experience, unless they are very lucky (to actually come across all the things needed to know), it alone is often lacking. Besides, experience alone can "reinforce" what worked that one time, which might be that you only got "lucky". For example, I truly hope you don't have to actually experience a boat fire to gain an understanding of the issues involved and how to prevent, prepare for, and respond to one. Learning the "hard way" is not always the best way, and is not the only way. However, experience coupled with knowledge often is a great teacher.