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Old 06-26-2018, 10:35 AM   #61
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Creaky memory, but wasn't there a unique multi-engine rating for the Sky Master?
Yes, It was called a "Center Line Thrust" rating and not a true multi engine rating. I have a multi engine rating which covers the center line thrust.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:53 AM   #62
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P Skymaster....An old man's airplane.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:54 AM   #63
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You are my new best friend. Always wanted to fly a sub.

If by some random chance I become a billionaire, I'm buying one of these and giving you a call.
dont forget the crew of 120
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:05 AM   #64
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"Mixmaster" . Good aircraft, but had some fuel management bugs that got people in trouble.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:12 AM   #65
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"Mixmaster" . Good aircraft, but had some fuel management bugs that got people in trouble.
I'd almost forgot about that! Started out on the aux tanks with a timer set for 45 minutes. The engines coughed over Banning, CA and I noticed the timer had gone to zero but I didn't hear the ding. Switched to main tanks and the engines roared to life. The timer was almost exactly like an old oven timer and was hard to hear with both engines running. You're absolutely correct, the plane did have some fuel management faults!
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:55 AM   #66
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Fletcher 500

How much, rough est., does a 10 year old single engine plane similar to as shown in post 47 cost, and what is the rough annual maint, upkeep, storage, etc to keep it per year?

Single engine aircraft are like Trawlers, there are many different models, and lots of differences that make up the cost. Many aircraft are like mine, older in years, but still viable and airworthy due to government aircraft directives, and required annual inspections. If taken care of, they will still be flying for many years to come.
My plane is a 1969 Piper Cherokee, and is currently for sale for $29,750. A ten year model of the same would be substantially more in initial cost depending on condition.
Annual inspection is dependent on whether one does an owner assisted annual, which can be a savings of hundreds of dollars, or just drops it off at and gives the maintenance facility orders to do” whatever it needs to do”, which can get very expensive. My owner assisted inspections, where I open the plane up, do most of the work, and close under the watchful gaze of the inspector, is a lot less, usually between $500 and $1000, depending what needs to be done, including what, if any FAA edict has come down in the last year. I do have years of USAF maintenance experience, and later work experience working for a very large aircraft company, and that helps. I enjoy working on my own aircraft, and/or boat, and get a lot of satisfaction out of the work. Also get to know all the systems better, which makes me more confident.
Normal maintenance like tires, brakes, shocks, lubrications and oil changes, and many things that are considered preventive maintenance, can be performed by the private pilot owner, and is spelled out in the FARs, leaving structure, and complex portions of maintenance to the certified mechanic. Depending if the plane is a simple aircraft taking 6 to 8 hours for an annual, or a complex aircraft taking 20 to 30 hours to complete, many of the tasks done at annual, can be done by the aircraft owner, or done during an owner assisted annual saving quite a substantial amount.
Storage depends on where you keep your plane. Like a fine boat, it depends on where the marina is located, with an airplane, it depends on where you want to keep it as well. Here in Washington, if you keep your plane at Boeing Field in Seattle, everything is expensive, and a hanger is almost prohibitive. I prefer smaller airport, where keeping it in the open is about $65/mo, an open “T” hanger for $200/mo, and a closed hanger which has lots of storage space for $235 a month, which I have for my aircraft.
In short, I usually set aside about $10/hr for every hour of flight time, to pay for maintenance, and the inevitable engine overhaul (suggested 2000 hr TBO), and that seems to be enough for me. I have owned my present aircraft for 10 years.
It’s kind of like owning a boat. If you keep on top of everything, it doesn’t seem to be too bad. Just get to it early, and don’t neglect what you need to do to keep it maintained, before a small item gets out of hand.
For me, and going into retirement, I don’t mind the work. It all has its rewards, as when lounging on the deck in the evening on Echo Bay on Sucia Island, or at Friday Harbor or Rosareo watching the other boats come and go.
My father send me a letter once while I was in the Air Force in Germany. My family was at Rosareo in the San Jaun Islands, and he was sitting on his 33’ Chris Craft and commented on the serenity of the scene. People walking on the dock to go to the resort, and that he noticed a sailboat moving towards the gas dock, “obviously, going there to get some “air” for their sails.” I could tell that he was content at that time.

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Old 06-26-2018, 12:37 PM   #67
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Aaliyah. (Singer, Dancer, Actor & Model) ...
Audie Murphy. 20 June 1925.
Buddy Holly. 07 September 1936.
Ritchie Valens. (Singer, Songwriter) ...
Subhas Chandra Bose. 23 January 1897.
Ricky Nelson. (Musician) ...
Otis Redding. 09 September 1941.
Jim Croce. (Singer, Musician)

... and those are just a partial list of famous people dying in small-plane accidents.

Famous people who died in aviation accidents

You guys are the survivors!
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:40 PM   #68
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CFII here and husband's office is the left seat of an A320.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:51 PM   #69
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Soloed in college in a 150- but then grad school, job, marriage, life... got in the way. I was just commenting to my wife last week that it seemed there were a lot of former/current pilots on this forum. But I do have a close friend with over 8,000 hrs and a Cessna 210 that flies me lots of places ie to look at boats And my deceased father-in-law, a dentist, began flying when he was 15 and his last two planes were Cessna 310's, Q&R - but I think his proudest few hours were in the right seat of a shiny Ford Tri-Motor.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:09 PM   #70
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I wonder if that centerline thrust rating is still a thing or if a standard multi rating is required now in the US? I always thought that Skymaster would be a great aircraft.
Owners / Pilots seem to like them a lot. While I have seen a few, never flown one myself. My only hours in twins is limited to a Chieftain, Cheyenne, Twin Otter, and Seneca. Most of my fixed wing time is in a 182, 185, and Beaver. So not a ton of hours in twins.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:35 PM   #71
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There was a group here in Miami that had several Sky Masters. It was called Brothers to the Rescue. They would fly down toward Cuba to spot the rafts trying to get to the USA. They would then direct the Coast Guard or near by boats to pick them up.

I once met the fellow who started it and I asked him why the Sky Master. He said they wanted twins for flying over water and it was easier to get pilots trained for the Sky Master than conventional twins.

Unfortunately the Sky Master is no match for a Mig 29. Castro shot down two of them in international air space.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:38 PM   #72
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:07 PM   #73
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I had five ultralights and several hang gliders.
2000hrs UL
200hrs HG
Ultralights were;
Easy Riser
Pterodactyl #1
Pterodactyl #2
Kasper Wing
Eipper Quicksilver 15hp weight shift


The Lazair was a twin 9hp (tractor .. engines close in) w a 36’ wing span. Aluminum “D section” leading edge spar .. tapered.
Both “Dactyl’s” were Cuyuna (snowmobile) powered. #2 had a Rotax 2.5-1 gear drive and a four blade prop adapted. 1400ft min climb at 40mph. About 45 degrees AOA.
Yes I did the “vertical mush” many times w the K wing. Wiltold Kasper was a genius and flying the K wing was proof. Both the K Wing and the Lazair were capable of clean flight below 20mph, ground effect not required.

The aviation/boating connection is probably small compared to motorcycles and boating.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:33 PM   #74
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Yup, I fly boxes right now. Do about 2 laps around the world a month.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:51 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
I had five ultralights and several hang gliders.
2000hrs UL
200hrs HG
Ultralights were;
Easy Riser
Pterodactyl #1
Pterodactyl #2
Kasper Wing
Eipper Quicksilver 15hp weight shift


The Lazair was a twin 9hp (tractor .. engines close in) w a 36’ wing span. Aluminum “D section” leading edge spar .. tapered.
Both “Dactyl’s” were Cuyuna (snowmobile) powered. #2 had a Rotax 2.5-1 gear drive and a four blade prop adapted. 1400ft min climb at 40mph. About 45 degrees AOA.
Yes I did the “vertical mush” many times w the K wing. Wiltold Kasper was a genius and flying the K wing was proof. Both the K Wing and the Lazair were capable of clean flight below 20mph, ground effect not required.

The aviation/boating connection is probably small compared to motorcycles and boating.
I saw a Kasper Wing do that mush thing at Oshkosh one time. That’s just weird. No wing should be able to do that.
I flew a Dactyl once, you’re right, scary climb rate. Didn’t want to come down either. Could have used some flaps or spoilers.
Lots of time on Quicks with 15 hp Yamaha engines. Most of it on floats.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:01 PM   #76
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Private Pilot, single engine, land. Took 5 years to get my ticket...numerous periods of short term unemployment delayed me. Met my wife at about the same time...she has absolutely no interest in flying. Although I love flying and airplanes, (look up whenever I hear one!), we both look forward to our trawler lifestyle. Also the money spent on a nice plane would go much farther on nice boat!
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:06 PM   #77
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Got my PPL in 1974. Took my brother for a ride and now he’s a 787 Captain.

CFII, taught at tOSU for a few years. Own a Bonanza which we use to go between our landlocked central Ohio home and our home in Punta Gorda where we keep our boat.

Don’t know how we would get by without it.

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Old 06-27-2018, 08:44 AM   #78
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Unfortunately the Sky Master is no match for a Mig 29. Castro shot down two of them in international air space.
I had no idea that happened! Is there a link somewhere that describes the incidents ?
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:18 AM   #79
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"Mixmaster" . Good aircraft, but had some fuel management bugs that got people in trouble.

I was going to say Mixmaster was what we called them to. There are a few aeroplanes I've seen people get into trouble with the fuel systems. The different models of the Baron's and particularly Queen Airs comes to mind. Many years ago I new some guys who killed themselves in an old Queen Air I used to fly when they mismanaged the fuel system thinking it was the same as a different model. The old 402's, 402A's and B's where also a trap if you used fuel out of the aux's to early it would just fill the mains (tips) and overflow out the vents.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:45 AM   #80
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I had no idea that happened! Is there a link somewhere that describes the incidents ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996...escue_aircraft

Jose Basulto is the fellow I met. He was flying the third plane that escaped.
I met him at the opening to the public of the Nike Missle base in Everglades National Park.
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