A Piece of Butedale

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Wish I had some extra change.

https://waggonerguide.com/a-unique-opportunity/

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have no ties to this. Just passing on info.

I wonder if TF could turn this into a TF Outstation!! LOL

If Seattle and Victoria Yacht Clubs got a hold of this, wonder if it would be closed to none members?

Additional info:

https://butedalebay.com/

 

[Ken E.]

I have no ties to this. Just passing on info.

I wonder if TF could turn this into a TF Outstation!! LOL

If Seattle and Victoria Yacht Clubs got a hold of this, wonder if it would be closed to none members?

Additional info:

https://butedalebay.com/

No mention of where the local Tribes stand on this, which could be a real mood breaker after a sale.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Last I heard there were negotiations with the tribes. That must have fallen through.

When we passes by in 2018, there were dozors knocking down most of the buildings and carrying it out on a barge. Caretaker's house was still standing.

 

[tiltrider1]

If Seattle or Vic Yacht club were to buy it it would be closed to all but club members. It is not of interest to Seattle, I can’t speak for Vic.

Before people get upset with Seattle Yacht Club practices, it should be understood that we have purchased most our properties out of bankruptcy. We don’t buy successful properties and then take them away from the public. We generally buy properties that have failed and are no longer available to the public. The last two properties that approached us and we passed on now no longer exist. When I say no longer exist I mean the docks are gone as well as the upland infrastructure. While we might not be a savior for the general public all are invited join the Seattle Yacht Club and utilize those properties that we have saved.

 

[friz]

If Seattle or Vic Yacht club were to buy it it would be closed to all but club members. It is not of interest to Seattle, I can’t speak for Vic.

Before people get upset with Seattle Yacht Club practices, it should be understood that we have purchased most our properties out of bankruptcy. We don’t buy successful properties and then take them away from the public. We generally buy properties that have failed and are no longer available to the public. The last two properties that approached us and we passed on now no longer exist. When I say no longer exist I mean the docks are gone as well as the upland infrastructure. While we might not be a savior for the general public all are invited join the Seattle Yacht Club and utilize those properties that we have saved.

"purchased most our properties" Sounds more like a REIT. Okay, yacht clubs. As a youth my parents were members of the Grose Pointe Yacht Club in Michigan. Fond memories. No hoi polloi there. So, "all are invited" but are all accepted? As a private club the Grose Pointe club was, I am sure, able to keep "those other people" out. At least in the 50's 60's. I guess I kind of liked it but never actually gave it any thought. Just accepted it as normal. I imagine your club is able to discriminate by income. Which is fine with me. If I had a 6 figure + income I would not want to socialize with minimum wage folks. Now I have not looked at your club's website but what gets my attention is me is "all are invited". I apologize if this comes across as "sour grapes".

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

If Seattle or Vic Yacht club were to buy it it would be closed to all but club members. It is not of interest to Seattle, I can’t speak for Vic.

Before people get upset with Seattle Yacht Club practices, it should be understood that we have purchased most our properties out of bankruptcy. We don’t buy successful properties and then take them away from the public. We generally buy properties that have failed and are no longer available to the public. The last two properties that approached us and we passed on now no longer exist. When I say no longer exist I mean the docks are gone as well as the upland infrastructure. While we might not be a savior for the general public all are invited join the Seattle Yacht Club and utilize those properties that we have saved.

Thank you for the clarification.

You would think SYC would be excited and welcoming to cruisers, while offering transient moorage, at a fee of course. Good money maker. However, The outstations are not available to non-members, which is sad as they are mostly empty most of the time, except for the caretaker.

With respect to Butedale I wonder who would want to invest the needed cash to make it work, thus my remarks of the two yacht clubs.

 

[tiltrider1]

Federal Law prevents Yacht clubs from selling services to the general public. While there are some limited exceptions, renting out our empty slips would put us beyond the limited exceptions and in violation of the law.

Seattle Yacht club doesn’t so much discriminate against income as it takes a substantial amount of money to operate all of our facilities. Not everyone can afford the monthly fee it takes to provide the services the Seattle Yacht club provides.

The general public is also quick to forget that 14 yacht clubs banded together to purchase Sucia Island and then gave it to the Parks department for all to use. Some of these same Yacht clubs have made substantial contributions to RBAW for the purchase of Lake Bay Resort to turn it into a Park for all.

 

[DDW]

It's a beautiful location, but you'd need maybe 4-5x the asking price to develop it, and be prepared for a very long wait to recover that investment. I hope somebody does. We stopped there last year and talked to the caretakers.

 

[soin2la]

Before people get upset with Seattle Yacht Club practices, it should be understood that we have purchased most our properties out of bankruptcy. We don’t buy successful properties and then take them away from the public. We generally buy properties that have failed and are no longer available to the public. The last two properties that approached us and we passed on now no longer exist. When I say no longer exist I mean the docks are gone as well as the upland infrastructure. While we might not be a savior for the general public all are invited join the Seattle Yacht Club and utilize those properties that we have saved.

The general public is also quick to forget that 14 yacht clubs banded together to purchase Sucia Island and then gave it to the Parks department for all to use. Some of these same Yacht clubs have made substantial contributions to RBAW for the purchase of Lake Bay Resort to turn it into a Park for all.

While neither a fan nor defender of yacht clubs, I appreciate your contribution here as it is always easy to speak from a place of ignorance and hearsay.

Two good posts.

 

[soin2la]

Last I heard there were negotiations with the tribes. That must have fallen through.

Who did you “hear” was negotiating and with which “tribes”?

When we passes by in 2018

Passes by does not make one an expert on the local geography, climate and viability.

Good money maker. However, they are mostly empty most of the time, except for the caretaker.

How can it be “empty most of the time” and be a “good money maker”?

I think tiltrider and DDW have a better grasp than a passerby. They summed up viability and appeal well. SYC’s lack of interest should be obvious.

With respect to Butedale I wonder who would want to invest the needed cash to make it work.

Maybe an NFL team owner, but it still wouldn’t work.

 

[tiltrider1]

My experience, is that anything north of Blind Channel needs to be a labor of love. The season is so short, the logistics are so difficult, and while boat size is increasing, boat volume is decreasing. This is not to say that one cannot turn a profit, just that the effort for a profit north of Blind channel might equal a fortune if applied south of Blind Channel.

 

[soin2la]

My experience, is that anything north of Blind Channel needs to be a labor of love. The season is so short, the logistics are so difficult, and while boat size is increasing, boat volume is decreasing. This is not to say that one cannot turn a profit, just that the effort for a profit north of Blind channel might equal a fortune if applied south of Blind Channel.

Port Harvey and Echo Bay will be interesting studies, but post COVID may alter "how it used to be" for much of our coast and related enterprises.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Federal Law prevents Yacht clubs from selling services to the general public. While there are some limited exceptions, renting out our empty slips would put us beyond the limited exceptions and in violation of the law.

Seattle Yacht club doesn’t so much discriminate against income as it takes a substantial amount of money to operate all of our facilities. Not everyone can afford the monthly fee it takes to provide the services the Seattle Yacht club provides.

The general public is also quick to forget that 14 yacht clubs banded together to purchase Sucia Island and then gave it to the Parks department for all to use. Some of these same Yacht clubs have made substantial contributions to RBAW for the purchase of Lake Bay Resort to turn it into a Park for all.

Thanks for the post. Very informative.

 

[DDW]

My experience, is that anything north of Blind Channel needs to be a labor of love. The season is so short, the logistics are so difficult, and while boat size is increasing, boat volume is decreasing. This is not to say that one cannot turn a profit, just that the effort for a profit north of Blind channel might equal a fortune if applied south of Blind Channel.

The only analogous property might be Shearwater, but that has the advantage of being located in the middle of a fairly substantial year around community, which may help to keep it going during the 10 month off season. Butedale would not enjoy that. Their grand plan seems to be to build that community - but what an undertaking that is!

 

[Nomad Willy]

I’m sure glad I had the experience of Butedale before the tourist industry noticed it. And maybe they haven’t yet .. ?

We (1st wife) were there in the early 70’s when the hydro-electric plant was still operating. We had unlimited showers powered by the lake above. Nothing had been torn down. We hiked up to the lake along the flume. As I recall we were the only ones there other that the caretaker. Down though the years they’ve had some interesting caretakers.

 

[sunchaser]

Port Harvey and Echo Bay will be interesting studies, but post COVID may alter "how it used to be" for much of our coast and related enterprises.

Port Harvey and Echo Bay have no shore facilities to speak of that allow people to get off vessel and stretch legs, water pets etc. Port McNeil, Sointula, Port Hardy, Jennis Bay, Blind Channel, Shearwater and Ocean Falls do.

Butdale's attraction is scenic private land, a very nice port to port spacing for cruisers and a lake. Namu offers similar and cannot find any buyers after 20 years of trying.

 

[soin2la]

Port Harvey and Echo Bay have no shore facilities to speak of that allow people to get off vessel and stretch legs, water pets etc. Port McNeil, Sointula, Port Hardy, Jennis Bay, Blind Channel, Shearwater and Ocean Falls do.

Butedale will never in our lifetime be any of those and the Shearwater vision took decades to mature. All of those places, as well as others; Alert Bay, Telegraph Cove etc. have a commercial component that helps sustain them.

Butdale's attraction is scenic private land, a very nice port to port spacing for cruisers and a lake. Namu offers similar and cannot find any buyers after 20 years of trying.

Yes and for many of the same reasons, Butedale will fail again, unless someone can harness the rain.

Lastly, tenders are meant for dogs and leg stretches, in those real BC boating spots.

 

[DDW]

Port Harvey and Echo Bay have no shore facilities to speak of that allow people to get off vessel and stretch legs, water pets etc.

Echo Bay, at least in their new location, does have (moved 3-4 years ago?).

A peculiar thing about Butedale: there is a modest current, up to about a knot, by the float. It reverses regularly and quickly, once every hour or so. Seems curious - an unstable eddy from the waterfall outlet?

 

[twistedtree]

I'm no real estate developer, but my guess is that Butedale is a bit like an old fixer-up boat. It's basically worth nothing other than some symbolic, token purchase price, because all the cost will be in turning it into something useful, and perhaps also valuable if you are lucky. It's millions in development to make Butedale into something, so I might pay $100k for it. But certainly not $4m, or anything close to it.

 

[Nomad Willy]

It's a beautiful location, but you'd need maybe 4-5x the asking price to develop it, and be prepared for a very long wait to recover that investment. I hope somebody does. We stopped there last year and talked to the caretakers.

I hope nobody does.
Money would just make a casino out of it .... or a remote yacht club. Yuck!
The only good thing that could happen to Butedale is to make a park out of the site. But the best time for that would have been pre-80’s. The essence of the old cannery has been turned to rubbish years ago. Nobody took care of it.

 

[OldDan1943]

"purchased most our properties" Sounds more like a REIT. Okay, yacht clubs. As a youth my parents were members of the Grose Pointe Yacht Club in Michigan. Fond memories. No hoi polloi there. So, "all are invited" but are all accepted? As a private club the Grose Pointe club was, I am sure, able to keep "those other people" out. At least in the 50's 60's. I guess I kind of liked it but never actually gave it any thought. Just accepted it as normal. I imagine your club is able to discriminate by income. Which is fine with me. If I had a 6 figure + income I would not want to socialize with minimum wage folks. Now I have not looked at your club's website but what gets my attention is me is "all are invited". I apologize if this comes across as "sour grapes".

That is Grosse Pointe Yacht Club but do not forget, the Detroit Boat Club, Detroit Yacht Club, the Little Club and and and.
Or perhaps "those people" didn't have a boat, were not interested in anything associated with boating, didn't have the disposable income etc.
The family belonged to the DYC for many years.... Later my bro and I became members. I think I was a member for about 5 years before dropped it.
I thought about joining someplace unusual such as the Bermuda Yacht club. LOL
I never went to the DYC so I didn't plan on going to the BYC either. I guess I am just not a yacht club sort of guy.

 

[soin2la]

...be prepared for a very long wait to recover that investment.

10 years to the first revenue, would be a conservative guess. Environmental remediation and regional district hoops would drag on forever.
Caveat emptor.

 

[DDW]

I hope nobody does.
Money would just make a casino out of it .... or a remote yacht club. Yuck!
The only good thing that could happen to Butedale is to make a park out of the site. But the best time for that would have been pre-80’s. The essence of the old cannery has been turned to rubbish years ago. Nobody took care of it.

I can't say I'm in love with the imagined plan. It would make a great park, nice float and some hiking trails. If they actually accomplished the dream, the charges would need to be far more than I'd be willing to pay to stop there. So to be clear what I hope someone does is puts a modest float and cleans up the shore a bit. I'd pay a reasonable fee for that.

 

[BandB]

10 years to the first revenue, would be a conservative guess. Environmental remediation and regional district hoops would drag on forever.
Caveat emptor.

I see the prospects of getting a reasonable return on the investment in the next 20 years to be somewhere between slim and none and if one did turn it into a revenue generating operation, then they'd be hearing from many, including many of you, about how they ruined the peaceful Butedale.

 

[soin2la]

So to be clear what I hope someone does is puts a modest float and cleans up the shore a bit. I'd pay a reasonable fee for that.

Those days are long gone.
At the first suggestion of anything commercial, there will be a long line of bureaucrats, from multiple governing agencies, lined up at float planes to go do an "inspection."

 

[Nomad Willy]

Great DDW,
Does BC have a history of charging in excess? Don’t remember that.

But I’ve seen what happens when the tourist industry invades a geographical treasure like Elfin Cove. Because of the brown bears Angoon is not a good site for tourism but otherwise would be.

Everybody knows and has seen Butedale as it’s right on a marine freeway. The anchorage is small and even about the year 2000 the floats at Butedale were such that one in 30 on this forum may have tied to them. But sometime Butedale may resemble other developed salt chucks. One thing in Butedale’s favor is that there is not much room to develop.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Namu offers similar and cannot find any buyers after 20 years of trying.

To tell you the truth, I had to google Namu. I remember it on my way to Shearwater. At the time I believed it was turned into a fishing/hunting lodge?

Here is a writeup from Slow Boat. Really sad.....

https://slowboat.com/2017/08/namu/

 

[Nomad Willy]

I was there when most of it was open and operating. There was a special place for pleasure boats.

We were heading south on Easy Rider and went along w a big sailboat from New Zealand. The ER went 12-13 knots depending on fuel load. They left at o-dark-thirty and we got underway at 10 or 11. We passed them mid-day and near dark they putted in and tied up for the night. Happened over several days. We tried to imagine how exciting it would be to go on a trip that long ... and through all those countries.

Chris and I tied up there in 03 w the Albin 25. About half the float was about 1” under water.

 

[MYTraveler]

Federal Law prevents Yacht clubs from selling services to the general public.

What law is that? Certainly not the tax code.