PERKO motise door latch

[djewell]

Last fall I replaced the exterior salon door on our 1977 Grand Banks 36 and also replaced the old PERKO mortice latch set with a new one. Yesterday the latch set failed in the locked position - dead bolt engaged. We are on the ICW and were locked inside. Couldn't open the aft cabin door without ripping some canvas covering, so climbed out the window over the liquor cabinet (no small feat, but that's another story). Took both inside and outside door handles and cover plates off the latch set, but could not move the dead bolt. Anyone faced this issue before? Ideas are welcome.

 

[Comodave]

Can you post a photo of the lock? Usually there is a square rod that goes through the lock and the knobs attach to the rod. Turning the rod will pull the bolt back out of the jamb.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

If I was on the ICW right now and locked into my boat I think I would just stay put.

I always have enough food, snacks and reading material to last several weeks. Maybe by then someone would miss me enough to come looking.

Maybe not..

pete

 

[Comodave]

If the lock is somehow jammed so that you cannot retract the bolt even by using the square hole that the knob handles attach to you may have to cut the bolt off while the door is still closed. Is there enough room between the door and the jamb to get a cutoff blade in to cut the bolt with a grinder? Usually there is a square hole in the lockset that you can stick a large straight slot screw driver in and turn the square hole to retract the bolt. That is what you want to try first. But if it will not retract you may have to cut the deadbolt.

 

[djewell]

Thanks ComoDave. Here is a pic. There are 2 deadbolt shaft holes, one for the knob inside the cabin and one for the key outside. I took both square shafts out and tried to turn the mechanism with a screw driver inserted into each shaft hole, no go.


I think I am at the point of your second comment, cutting off the deadbolt itself. Was hoping to find a less destructive measure.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. dj. There seems to be a teak plug on the cover molding at about the 3:30 position in relation to the chrome lever. IF you're going the route Mr. C suggests, the plugs will have to come out and that molding will have to come off. While a major PIA, it's a good excuse to refinish the molding.

 

[Comodave]

I think that you would have to cut the bolt from the other side where the teak does not overhang the door. On the other side there should be a striker plate on the door jamb. You need to cut between the striker plate and the door. The easiest cut will be with a grinder with a cutoff wheel. However you may not have enough clearance between the door and the striker plate to get a cutoff wheel in. Then you need to find something thinner to cut the deadbolt. PITA...

 

[Bacchus]

Maybe reaching but have you tried WD-40 or silicone spray into the jammed mechanism?

Also looks like 2 sq opening for key & dead bolt lever have you tried using both at the same time?
Add more leverage and force it? sq shaft & wrenches??

I'm groping but trying to cut the bolt in place likely not going to be fun???

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. C. DOH!!! Of course you can cut it from the outside. Mr. dj. Forget what I posted...

 

[Comodave]

Cutting it won’t be fun but short of destroying the door I don’t know how you can get to it. I am assuming that he has tried lubricant on it already.

 

[Comodave]

Maybe putting a wedge above and below the lock and carefully driving them into the gap may widen it enough to get a cutoff wheel into the gap???

 

[djewell]

I think I can access the deadbolt from the outside with a BIM saw on a vibrating tool. There is not enough room to put a grinder cutoff wheel into the space between the door and jamb. I think I'll live with it as is until I can get in touch with PERKO on Monday to see if they have any other ideas. Thanks to everyone for the good ideas and observations.

 

[John R M]

I'm not at all aware of your setup, but is removing the hinges or the pins in the hinges an option? Better than cutting anything.

 

[David925]

Door latch

Same thing happen to me on my 36 GB, what happen there is a plastic tumbler inside on the new perks latch that breaks what you have to do is get 2 knife use one on top one on bottom and walk the dead bolt back. Its not a lubbercation problem, it just needs to be pushed back. This worked well for me.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. GREAT first post!

 

[STB]

I've seen this happen if the door shifts and binds the deadbolt. Try lifting up on the latch/handle while trying to retract the deadbolt. If that doesn't work they pushing down. If that fails try lifting up with a drywall knife under the door on the latch side, if no love, try the hinge side, still no love try the same but push down from the top. Good luck!

 

[djewell]

Thanks to all contributors. We have been traveling today, so couldn't get to computer and respond. The lock is well lubricated, so don't think that is the issue, but will make sure with some more WD40. I'll try the 2 knives trick next and if that doesn't work, will try cutting the bolt. Also, tomorrow is Monday and maybe PERKO will be able to help.

Thanks again for all advice. I will post what the outcome is when I get there.
Fair winds & following seas to all,
Doug

 

[Comodave]

Good luck!

 

[Benthic2]

Removing the hinge pins would be easier than cutting the latch. Also, perhaps a wedge or a flatbar under the door to lift the door slightly to remove pressure on the bottom of the deadbolt....while turning both square holes. Hopefully you have extra hands available.

 

[FF]

Perko has been going down hill for a long time.

There wont be a perfect direct replacement

Be sure to post the replacement source for a better grade lock set.

 

[djewell]

PERKO Mortise Lock Set problem

The answer to getting the lock set out was to take the door off. I first tried to punch the pins out of the hinges - that didn't work, pins were too tight. I took a vibrating cutter with a metal cutting blad and sawed the tabs off the door side of the hinges. Destroyed 3 hinges, but got the door off.


The mortise lock mechanism came out easily and I took off the back (2 screws, easy to get off). I found that one of the ears on the latch mechanism had broken off and had fallen down behind the slide area of the dead bolt, limiting it's travel. No wonder the dead bolt would not retract. Also, this explains why turning the latch handle would only work one way, the other side was broken.



Now to get a new lockset (from PERKO?) and new hinges an put it all back together. Thanks again to all contributors.

 

[Comodave]

Glad you got it out. Hope you are able to find a replacement.

 

[Albin]

Last fall I replaced the exterior salon door on our 1977 Grand Banks 36 and also replaced the old PERKO mortice latch set with a new one. Yesterday the latch set failed in the locked position - dead bolt engaged. We are on the ICW and were locked inside. Couldn't open the aft cabin door without ripping some canvas covering, so climbed out the window over the liquor cabinet (no small feat, but that's another story). Took both inside and outside door handles and cover plates off the latch set, but could not move the dead bolt. Anyone faced this issue before? Ideas are welcome.

I see from your second post that you fixed your problem. I just wanted to let you know this has happened to me at least twice before and it's maddening. I have an Albin40 with the exact same door latches and I realize now that these Perko products are crap. The weak point in the latch mechanism is the very thing that broke in yours. Most of the components seem to be decent quality but this particular piece is made out of some kind of aluminum or pot metal and has very little strength. Unfortunately, because of the size and configuration of the doors on my boat, I was not able to find a replacement product that would fit so I have to keep buying this substandard product to replace broken latches. I have been able to buy that part separately (not sure what it's called) so that makes the purchase a little less painful. To reduce further failures, I trimmed a little off the latch spring inside so less force is needed to open the latch, putting less stress on that part inside since it doesn't have to compress the spring as far. The latch rattles a little now when not engaged but it will last longer.

For what it's worth,
Jeff

 

[LongStoryGB36]

Last fall I replaced the exterior salon door on our 1977 Grand Banks 36 and also replaced the old PERKO mortice latch set with a new one. Yesterday the latch set failed in the locked position - dead bolt engaged. We are on the ICW and were locked inside. Couldn't open the aft cabin door without ripping some canvas covering, so climbed out the window over the liquor cabinet (no small feat, but that's another story). Took both inside and outside door handles and cover plates off the latch set, but could not move the dead bolt. Anyone faced this issue before? Ideas are welcome.

If I can change the subject slightly, we also have a 1977 GB 36 and the door has seen better days. How did you replace yours? Any photos?

Thanks

Russ

 

[catalinajack]

Is anyone concerned that on this boat there is only one way out, at least a quick and easy way? That would frighten me. I suppose this may be common. Never thought about it but, if I were buying another boat I would want two ways out.

 

[Insequent]

The answer to getting the lock set out was to take the door off. I first tried to punch the pins out of the hinges - that didn't work, pins were too tight. I took a vibrating cutter with a metal cutting blad and sawed the tabs off the door side of the hinges. Destroyed 3 hinges, but got the door off.


The mortise lock mechanism came out easily and I took off the back (2 screws, easy to get off). I found that one of the ears on the latch mechanism had broken off and had fallen down behind the slide area of the dead bolt, limiting it's travel. No wonder the dead bolt would not retract. Also, this explains why turning the latch handle would only work one way, the other side was broken.



Now to get a new lockset (from PERKO?) and new hinges an put it all back together. Thanks again to all contributors.

I'm not sure how far down the path you are with a replacement, but here is another thread worth looking at.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/@-$-*-perko-mortise-lock-set-0927-a-40471.html

My solution is referenced in post #23 & #28. The new Olcese Ricci locksets are going great!

 

[Comodave]

Is anyone concerned that on this boat there is only one way out, at least a quick and easy way? That would frighten me. I suppose this may be common. Never thought about it but, if I were buying another boat I would want two ways out.

When we bought our current boat the idiot PO had removed the escape hatch in the aft cabin and decked over the hole. The first thing I did was cut it open and put a new hatch in place. Crazy not having an alternate way out.

 

[djewell]

Thanks for that info, Jeff. I may have to do the same thing. Once I get the new part (they say it's being shipped), I'll update this thread with the final results. For now, my door is being held on with a rope (line) tied to the helm wheel.

Doug

 

[djewell]

GB Door

Hi Russ,
Sorry to be slow replying, still getting used to how the forum board works. We took 2 pieces of 3/4" marine plywood and glued (epoxied) them together to make a 1-1/2" thick door. Then we cut the mortise for the lock set and window with window molding to hold the automotive glass in place. Set the glass in poly sulfide. Also mortised the hinges so they would be flush. I painted outside with awlgrip and inside with high quality PPG paint, plus primer on both sides. Reinstalled the teak trim. The door is very heavy and SOLID! I'll get some pics and post them next week.
Good luck!

 

[djewell]

One way out

CatalinaJack,
I share your concerns about being able to vacate the boat in an emergency. Our rear hatch works but if the canvas cover is installed (goes on from the outside), then we would end up tearing the canvas to get out. Willing to do that in an emergency, just didn't want to do it in a non-emergency situation. Being somewhat claustrophobic, egress options is very much on my mind.
Doug