Passagemaking question???

[caltexflanc]

[QUOTE=sunchaser;126300]

Originally Posted by caltexflanc

Hatteras LRCs have circumnavigated and a few more have crossed the Atlantic and back. Frankly, they are more robust boats than your typical Nordhavn. QUOTE]

Caltexflan, please note I said "In the hands of a pro." GG is hardly that. I'd not recommend to a novice that he cross the world's oceans in a old flushdeck LRC vs a newer and well tested proven passagemaker. I own a DF that could do the Atlantic too, but I'd much prefer a Rated proven blue water vessel.

I take it you have cruised on a typical (whatever that is) Nordhavn and viewed their construction and stability calculations in detail? In what way is an LRC more robust than say a typical 57' Nordhavn, just name me one and I'll demur.

First, the LRCs are proven blue water passage makers. Re-read my post. It's only been what, 35 years or so of proving that? I would submit that hull scantlings, thickness, integrity, electrical, engine room design (especially that), general systems layout and quality of components all rival or exceed that of a Nordhavn. The 57 is my favorite Nordhavn by the way, I once thought the 62 would be until I spent time on one and debriefed the captain who had brought it over from Malta, to New York and thence Savannah. The 55 was very disappointing as well. Certainly all of this is arguable and laced with personal opinion and preferences.

I once harbored dreams almost identical to the OP's. But after doing a lot of cruising via charter, with my wife, on a variety of boats, we learned cross ocean passage making was not of interest to us, nor were the kind of boats you needed to that well. That's why I ended up with a "motor yacht" and not an LRC, Nordhavn or Krogen. This boat has been perfect for us, coastal cruising the eastern seaboard and environs for the past 5 1/2 years, living aboard full time very comfortably.

There is a guy on the Hatteras Owners Forum that has an absolutely drop dead gorgeous 58 LRC for sale after only a few years of ownership and a very open check book. He too once had similar dreams. He found that family life and work life were cutting into the ability to use the boat; the realities of their life stage finally sunk in.

[Larry M]

...I once harbored dreams almost identical to the OP's. But after doing a lot of cruising via charter, with my wife, on a variety of boats, we learned cross ocean passage making was not of interest to us, nor were the kind of boats you needed to that well. ...There is a guy on the Hatteras Owners Forum that has an absolutely drop dead gorgeous 58 LRC for sale after only a few years of ownership and a very open check book. He too once had similar dreams. He found that family life and work life were cutting into the ability to use the boat; the realities of their life stage finally sunk in.

Lena and I hear this alot. I would guess that 99% of the boats designed for and purchased to cross oceans never do. It's a wonderful dream but a tremendous undertaking and commitment. You can't bail out half way across.

[FF]

"I would guess that 99% of the boats designed for and purchased to cross oceans never do. It's a wonderful dream but a tremendous undertaking and commitment."

Perhaps ,

Sadly ,I think the comment is usually made in ignorance of the actual requirements , the vessels limitations , the owners commitment in time and currency as well as the skill sets that need to be obtained.

A "Real Passage maker" Sounds good at the bar tho.

[Phil Fill]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

Again, with all due respect, this is a different question.
I figured that I wouldn't have to reference, because most active posters would remember me anyhow and those that don't or weren't around, can always view past posts if they choose.

and, by the way, I took all of the advice that I was given then on forums. I chucked my idea of 2 boats and decided to go with 1 trawler. I also downsized significantly from 90' to 65' as a direct influence of good advice that I was given on forums.

Now I am trying to figure out the range thing. Last night, I didn't even realize that it was possible to "ship your ship" across the ocean. I'm actually not that keen on making a long dangerous journey like that at all, but I LOVE the idea of one day, having the option of exploring other far away places in my boat. So this was a great discovery for me. This is why I appreciate the feedback that I get on forums, because folks open your eyes to ideas and possibilities that you had no clue existed. That's why in my very first post on this thread I made it clear that I have been researching boats for a while now and trying to narrow it down.

Good to hear from you and that you been doing some research. Did you go to marinas and yards to see what size of moorage is and lifts available. In the PNW I wouls not go of 60 ft and/or or 50 tons as moorage and lifts are very limited. there are boat/trawler in the 50 to 60 ft that have 3+ staterooms, 2 baths, 400+ gallon water tanks, 1000+ gallon fuel, which have the range and stability for coastal ocean cruising. However, not many boats, even Nordhavn, Krogan, Selen, seahorse really are designed for crossing an ocean. Sure a few have done, but there are other more boats designed and more capable, but they also cost more, or they a commercial grade. The only Nordhavn that really has a good proven record is their original 62 ft explorer trawler.

If we want to cross and ocean we would probable ship the Eagle, even though a few have crossed ocean. The reason is it would cost about as much to refit the Eagle as it would to ship her, and the would be easier on the boat and us. However, there is thousand of miles of coastal cruising before we would consider that. First we are heading up to Alaska, then down the coast to Mexico and maybe even further?

Anyway for the biggest bang for the buck I would still look at off brands, and or commercial conversions. The 3 magazine I would recommend looking at are, Show boat, Yachting, and Passagemaker they have boats over 50+ ft, and not just the Nordhavn, Selen and Krogen . After you have looked and gone on enough boats/trawler you will know hat fit your needs, but it may take years.

My wife and I have decided to sell/liquidate everything, have not ties to land, and/or be moble off the radar. My wife does want to buy a land yatch to crusie the Unisted States as we cruise the coast land, but warmer climates. Let us know if we can be of further help?

[Tidahapah]

If you then decide to ship your vessel accross the big ponds then it opens up a lot more boats for inspection especially some of the better semi displacement boats such as the Flemings, Ocean Alexanders etc.
I must admit I still like the original Nordhavn 62' expedition boat and the older ones are comming down in price and most are still in pristine condition.
Cheers
Benn

[Keith]

You're not going to spend that much time crossing oceans. The only reason you do that is to go coastal cruising somewhere else. A good weather router is more important than a good passagemaker.

[Tidahapah]

Keith,
That is exactly right.
If you read my post in Cruising Down Under "Long Distance Cruising" Jim and his wife on Nordlys did a round the world cruise lasting 5 years in what is classed here in Aus as a costal cruiser.
One just has to be pretty careful , but also have a well found vessel.
And also the will to do it.
Cheers
Benn

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by Keith

You're not going to spend that much time crossing oceans. The only reason you do that is to go coastal cruising somewhere else. A good weather router is more important than a good passagemaker.

How true that is. This New Year week, my wife and I finally got to take our boat truly coastal. that is, instead of just cruising around the Moreton Bay here with its myriad of channels and islands, we went out the seaway at the southern end, and travelled up the outside of the encircling string of islands, and in again around cape Moreton at the top. Fortunately, we struck a good, albeit brief, weather window. This trip was only ~ 120nm, yet after we did it, we looked at each other and said, "well, it was a good box to tick, but doubt we'll do it again". Because, although nice to be out of the deep blue, there was not much to look at, we saw less sea life than we do inside the bay, and the tedious drone of the engine was tiresome. It was so nice to get to an anchorage and switch off. That is of course the bonus of sail - until the wind comes up, that is....
So, yes, exploring bays and rivers and islands, and finding nice anchorages is what it's all about, and you don't find them out in the open ocean.

[jeffnick]

It's all so nice to dream of life on the water (we did and we did), but so often we forget about the overhead and I don't mean weather. If your boat can cross oceans, but doesn't, you're in for a heavy burden. The same goes for size...you pay for that space every day, even if you never use it.

We've been there and back and you've probably seen it before, but I have to say it again:
One More Time Around: Sailboat or Trawler

[Capn Craig]

Jeff,
I think you offer more common sense than most people are prepared to absorb. I sure don't have the answers but I have been really influenced by real life realities. In the early 2000's, I I executed my dream cruise of taking my boat around Lake Michigan. My boat then was a 25' 1973 F25 Trojan cruiser with a repowered 351 ci Ford inboard of 250 HP. I installed the engine my self and was capable fixing of any failure short of tranny failure, or catastrophic engine falure. I towed a 12' inflatable with a 25HP motor 'just in case. The cruise consisted of me trailing my 10' overwide to Morris IL and dropping the whole thing into the Illinois River to start' I was cruising with my wife and 10 yr old son. The trip went exactly as planned except I had to scale back my destinations to align to real world weather conditions. I realized at the point I pulled into Frankfort Michigan after a very rough day from S. Manitou Island to Frankfort that people really dont do stuff. When people noticed my calling port of Bettendorf Iowa, they asked how did you get here? I heard 'You crossed the lake'? You are doing what? You passed Point Betsy Today? I realized that boaters dream but seldom execute. These people hadn't been 25 miles offshore in their life. And, impressively had far bigger, more capable boats than mine. It is the people that go and experience, particularly on a budget that are My heros. Its not the budget or grand plans that make the experience it actually doing it.
Jeff you seem like I guy I would love to have a deep conversation over a beer about the boat experience. I had the opportunity to visit Spartanburg this fall to visit a supplier, Spartenburg Steel Products. You were off to Lake Powell, some day we need to visit,

[FF]

Now I am fine tuning some of my research, as the time goes near, to how much range I need in the long run.



In the Pacific 4000nm range is considered required to go anywhere.

[caltexflanc]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

Again, with all due respect, this is a different question.
I figured that I wouldn't have to reference, because most active posters would remember me anyhow and those that don't or weren't around, can always view past posts if they choose.

and, by the way, I took all of the advice that I was given then on forums. I chucked my idea of 2 boats and decided to go with 1 trawler. I also downsized significantly from 90' to 65' as a direct influence of good advice that I was given on forums.
That's why in my very first post on this thread I made it clear that I have been researching boats for a while now and trying to narrow it down.

How much research have you done via going boating for several consecutive in various waters and weather on various kinds of boats? Personally I too like to do all kinds of reading and similar research, but very little of it made any contribution to the boat buying decision. The only things that were very useful were books and articles about boat design, construction and systems.

I'd suggest revisiting your idea of buying the "ultimate boat" first. For one thing, you may well never use it for its "ultimate" purpose. Once you have done some cruising, buy a boat best suited for your near term plans. Then you can really enjoy yourselves, and will learn much more what that "ultimate" boat should really be.

Posts can be deceiving, so forgive me if I misconstrue, but you sound like someone who has spent very little time actually on boats, or actually cruising. I'd say, first things first, do a lot of that. Then you'll know what the questions to ask that are right for you.

[sunchaser]

Back to GG's question about what 65' passage makers should be considered and assuming:

• GG wants a true passage maker and not a coastal cruiser
• GG ignores the TF "don't do it" advice
• GG obtains the requisite training and skills to do what GG wants to do
• GG has the $$ to purchase and maintain a 65' passage maker
• 3 - 4 staterooms
• Resale value at end of journeys
• Vessel has tankage to do US to Hawaii

WHAT 65' TRAWLER TYPE PASSAGE MAKERS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED??
My first blush choices are:

• Nordhavn 62
• An Outer Reef 65-70 (Crew quarters aft)
• Sea Spirit 60
• Cape Horn 65
• Nordhavn 55
• Northern Marine 57
• "Special" but known builds like Malahide, Delfin, Park Isle Marine

What others, and fitting the above assumptions, are out there for $1.0 to $1.5M fully outfitted?

[IslandEagle]

Hey GalaxyGirl, a quick question: what area of the country are you located in? This will substantially change the choice of boats.

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr./Ms. IE.

[jeffnick]

Originally Posted by Capn Craig

Jeff,
Jeff you seem like I guy I would love to have a deep conversation over a beer about the boat experience.

I'd be up for swapping some sea stories. We get up to Chgo every now and then and might be interested in a side trip over your way. Stay in touch.

Yup, there are many verbal boaters out there. I do occasionally enjoy hashing out "what I'm going to do" or "what I want to do" or "what I've heard you should do" or "you're a fool if you do that - the book says" or "look how pretty my boat is", but I prefer just jump in ignoring the beauty part.

If you use your resources to only eliminate the blatant dangers you have more for the vehicle/adventure, not to mention the gains by being able to cast beauty aside. Of course this means accepting more risk. But then what is a risk but an opportunity to learn something? The place between risk and danger is wildly different for boaters because ultimately you may have to take responsibility for your own safety - you can't run in the house and cover your ears with a pillow because you don't like thunder, or call AAA when your boat doesn't run, or phone a friend for guidance...might be the reason we have so many verbal boaters?

[CPseudonym]

Tom, you provided an impressive list of truly capable boats but I hardly see where they would make the stated budget for this thread.

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

I would like to spend under 400k.

I think the "passage maker" design requirement is what is keeping this dream from becoming a reality sooner rather than later. Yachtworld shows several boats meeting GG's basic requirements, including price point, when you set aside the true passage maker desire that is.

[Keith]

I think that's the point. Dreams.

[markpierce]

I've made a dozen or so transoceanic voyages (if one includes three California-Hawaii trips) but only in ships. The idea, however, of being bounced around continuously for weeks at a time with nothing on the horizon in a cramped boat does not appeal. Unless cost was no object (wasted a million $$: so what), I'd not purchase a transoceanic-capable boat unless found out previously I enjoyed such an adventure on someone else's boat.

[GFC]

GG, if you're still hanging around reading these posts, and I hope you are, let me add a couple of thoughts.....
--you said your kids are still in grade school. That puts them about 8-10 years from really being out of the house and on their way to college. With that thought in mind, why not get your feet wet with a "lesser boat" than an ocean rated boat and, if in 10-12 years you decide to go ocean hopping you can upgrade then.

Part of the reason I suggest this is to keep within your $400K budget and buy an ocean rated boat you're going to have one that's pretty old now. Add another 10 years to it and you're likely to encounter some very serious costs to get it ready for an ocean crossing. New electronics, possibly an engine rebuild, etc., would not be out of line before you take off to cross an ocean.

If I were in your shoes, I'd spend a couple hundred grand on a boat that's capable of coastal cruising. Learn how to use it, build memories with your children, and become a seasoned skipper on your own. I'd let the rest of the money sit in a bank or investment account for the next 10 years so it can grow some.

Then, when the last of the kids is out of the house you've had ~10 years to see if crossing oceans is really what you want to do. If not, ship the boat using the $200+K you have in the bank and spend your time coastal cruising in the new location.

I've thought about doing what you were asking about and I've come to realize that spending endless days crossing an endless sea may sound romantic but it's not really what I want. I want to explore new waters, see new sights and experience peoples in far away lands. But I don't want to spend weeks on an open sea getting there. For me, the best part of the journey would come at the destination, not in crossing the ocean to get there.

GFC