Passage through Canadian rapids

[Gordon GB]

I'm looking for local knowledge and/or past experience.

I'm planning a cruise this August that will include visiting the Octopus Islands. I also want to visit the Dent Island area. My question is whether, using an 8-9 knot trawler, it would be feasible to negotiate both Hole in the Wall and Yaculta Rapids/Gillard Pass northbound in one go, on the same tide change. My thoughts are to arrive at Hole in the Wall about 1/2 hour before slack (Turn To Ebb) and ride the flood into the passage which would give me time to make it to Gillard Pass at about slack, or a bit after.

Is this inadvisable or is it doable? Other recommendations for this passage?

 

[koliver]

You can pick a time when the currents are less, such as in the week that has neither a full moon nor a new moon, then the last hour before and the first hour after slack will be less than a week later. Or you can do Hole in the Wall and spend a pleasant day at Octopus or Wiatt Bay and do Dent another time. We have done both in one go a few times, and we only do 8 knots. Haven't tried to do both during a full moon.

Some will just go for it, if the current is running your way. Our first time through Hole in the Wall was like that, and the current whirled us around in our sailboat, doing a 360 before releasing us. Exciting, but then we had done the same in Dodd.

 

[porman]

I suggest you get the book Local Knowledge by Kevin Monahan. It has very useful information about transiting all the rapids in Canada. I see you're in Seattle. Send me a PM if you want to talk about cruising that area. We've been there several times.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Get this book. It will show you max and slow current, along with slack. I use it all the time.

https://www.waggonerguidebooks.com/store/p393/2022pnp.html

 

[tiltrider1]

If you are entering YacultaGillard as it turns to Ebb tide you will
Be fine. If you enter As it turns to flood you might make it but a much higher risk.

You can hold up at big bay public dock and wait for the next slack. Local knowledge allows me to run against the flood from Hole in the wall to Dent Island but I know no secrets on RunNing Dent rapids against a flood.

I am going to ask you to be careful. I see 8kt boats running with the rapids at full current all thE time. It’s rare but every now and then the current rips a rudder off and that’s when we have a new story to tell.

 

[Gordon GB]

Get this book. It will show you max and slow current, along with slack. I use it all the time.

https://www.waggonerguidebooks.com/store/p393/2022pnp.html

Yes, have Ports and Passes and have been studying it very closely.

 

[rsn48]

I second the Waggoneer suggestion. If memory serves me correctly there is also a section in the book on how to cheat the rapids - low tide fluctuation, going with the current, etc.

If you want a "training" rapid, go through Dodd narrows on your way to Nanaimo.

 

[Gordon GB]

I second the Waggoneer suggestion. If memory serves me correctly there is also a section in the book on how to cheat the rapids - low tide fluctuation, going with the current, etc.

If you want a "training" rapid, go through Dodd narrows on your way to Nanaimo.

Yes, I've been studying the Waggoneer discussion of negotiating the rapids too.

Have been through Dodd a few times and will be going through on this trip as well. Also, several trips through Deception Pass. I know timing is everything - the difference between "no big deal" and "OH SH*T!!"

 

[GoldenDawn]

Hole in the Wall is deep and relatively straight shot through so OK to run with the current an hour or so after slack. We also use the current prediction in Navionics to double check our tide tables. Good idea to use two different sources to check for slack.

We went through Surge Narrows "an hour or two" after slack once - hit 17 knots on our 7 knot trawler. I am not allowed to do that again.

The biggest problem with Dent and Yucluta Rapids is the boats plowing along at 12-15 knots leaving incredible standing waves in the channel.

 

[Ken E.]

Reading Waggoners, pay particular attention to what direction the water moves on the flood and ebb. It's not always intuitive in that area, including farther west toward Blind Channel and Forward Harbor. Ports and Passes is indispensable for currents' speed and timing. Be careful, especially with big tides. There have been many mishaps there over the years.

 

[Greg S]

As already said, buy the book called “Local Knowledge” by Kevin Monahan.

It addresses these areas explicitly.
Much more very useful information as well.

 

[soin2la]

The biggest problem with Dent and Yucluta Rapids is the boats plowing along at 12-15 knots leaving incredible standing waves in the channel.

That and a mile long commercial tow where the tail is trying to pass the front end.

 

[Gordon GB]

I suggest you get the book Local Knowledge by Kevin Monahan. It has very useful information about transiting all the rapids in Canada.

Retrieved my copy of Monahan from the boat - yes, lots of good info regarding this passage.

 

[Main Attraction]

The Bible

Volume 6 of the Canadian Tide and Current Tables is the official government documentation on the matter:
https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/chs-shc-tct-tmc-vol6-2022-41052560.pdf

Supplementary publications such as Sailing Directions are helpful.

 

[JDCAVE]

John's advice (Golden Dawn) is good. I've been through the Dent/Gillard/Yuculta complex many times (and once in pea-soup fog). I ALWAYS time my transit for Slack at the Dents, even if it means bucking tides at the other spots to do so. The Dents are the most challenging as the flows are not laminar, and even 15 minutes either side of slack are "owly" to say the least with whirl pools present.

Up until a few years ago, the tides for the Dents provided in Coastal Explorer and other "third party" websites were WRONG. They have since corrected that (I prompted them to do so).

I have an Excel spreadsheet calculator that I use for the passage of these three rapids that I use to calculate arrival times at the first rapids, and I ALWAYS use the CHS tables and refer to the calculations for the Secondary Stations. That said, Coastal Explorer now provides the same estimates I derive.

As others have said, Kevin Monahan's book is good.

Jim

 

[BCRyan]

We're getting ready to go through Yuculta / Gillard / Dent tomorrow (9-Aug) and since this is my first time through multiple rapids, I would welcome a quick cross-check of my calculations.

Background: We are a 76' motor yacht that can do 20+ knots but we spend most of the time below hull speed. I've done rapids previously (e.g. Malibu, Dodd), and have both the CHS tide tables and volume 3 of Ports and Passes.

I'm planning on hitting these rapids at the flood-to-ebb turn, which for Gillard is listed at 16:02 (all times here PDT). Using the correction for Dent (which I read above should take priority), we'll time things to hit Dent at 15:37 (-0:25 time difference to Gillard).

Yuculta will turn at 16:07 (+0:05), but I'm planning to transit that at around 15:00 in order to be at Dent at that local turn.

Make sense? Thanks in advance!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You appear to be looking good. Having a big yacht will also help you. Please take note that there will be others in the rapids too. Its not necessary to "blow" through the rapids. You will have plenty of time. Understand wakes from the bigger yachts have an affect on the smaller boats.

 

[tiltrider1]

My only warning is that Canadian tides are usually not adjusted for Pacific Daylight Time. Just make sure you are not an hour off in your timing.

 

[soin2la]

You'll be fine. You know how and you've been given good advice.
Make use of AIS at today's turn to see what boats are lined up, going early and late. AIS on Marine Traffic shows speed, size and often has pictures.
There will for sure be a mix of size and type.

 

[BCRyan]

Thank you very much to all that responded so quickly! It's good getting some "local knowledge" to weigh in.

Checking out today's transits via MarineTraffic is a great idea (which I'll do here in a couple hours). And I'll take it slow through the rapids... with today's diesel prices, I have no interest in "blowing through" anywhere!!!

 

[soin2la]

Keep in mind we can watch you as well.
Please be mindful of both humpback and killer whales on both sides of Read Island. humpbacks are hard to see and there are a few hanging around Sutil Channel right now.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You'll be fine. You know how and you've been given good advice.
Make use of AIS at today's turn to see what boats are lined up, going early and late. AIS on Marine Traffic shows speed, size and often has pictures.
There will for sure be a mix of size and type.

Good advice. One of our crossing was fun. We came around the corner heading north and there was a huge log raft heading south. With 2 tiny tugs working the raft. It sure was interesting to watch.

 

[BCRyan]

Good advice. One of our crossing was fun. We came around the corner heading north and there was a huge log raft heading south. With 2 tiny tugs working the raft. It sure was interesting to watch.

Yup, we had fun, too. Amazing scenery through there and even Dent Rapids were benign around slack.

Unfortunately no whale sightings...

Thanks again for the help!

 

[soin2la]

We came around the corner heading north and there was a huge log raft heading south. With 2 tiny tugs working the raft.

Hardly tiny tugs.
That would more than likely been the purpose built Island Fury (58T) and Island Navigator (71T). The navigator as sea anchor on the back end.
The Fury normally does that run alone, from Seymour (the jungle) or Knight, down to the Avalon sort in Howe Sound.

It was either a big change to flood with a long boom, or the navigator just happened to be there on another errand.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Hardly tiny tugs.

That would more than likely been the purpose built Island Fury (58T) and Island Navigator (71T). The navigator as sea anchor on the back end.

The Fury normally does that run alone, from Seymour (the jungle) or Knight, down to the Avalon sort in Howe Sound.



It was either a big change to flood with a long boom, or the navigator just happened to be there on another errand.

They looked small compared to the log float and other tugs I have seen. Just found it awesome, they worked the float with ease and finesse. You sir, have an interesting job.

 

[Gordon GB]

Just wanted to report that, thanks to the your advice and encouragement, and careful preparation, we had a very easy transit of the the rapids. We got to Hole in the Wall nearly an hour before high water slack and had little to deal with. We were then able to make it to Yaculta Rapids and Gillard Passage about 20 minutes ahead of slack and it was very easy. Now enjoying fantastic weather and scenery having visited Dent Island Lodge and now Toba inlet.

 

[soin2la]

...visited Dent Island Lodge and now Toba inlet.

I’d have guessed your boat would have little trouble passing through Gillard an hour either side of slack.

I’ve not been to Toba since May, when the snow pack was at 200% of normal and we were all holding our breath hoping for a slow thaw. That has happened, but even so the creeks and rivers have been higher than usual.

I say all this, to set up the question, have you seen or heard any evidence of early, heavy salmon runs and more particularly brown/grizzly bear activity, either on the beaches or in the estuaries?

 

[Gordon GB]

We haven’t had too many reports on the fishing but it does not seem too active yet.

 

[Ken E.]

I haven't heard anything on the fishing or bears at Toba, but a friend just passed through the Bella Bella / Cultus Sound / Spider Island areas farther up and fishing was good there in mid August