paper charts

[BandB]

Originally Posted by psneeld

And some of us with laptop nav can plot just as easily on an electronic chart as they can on a paper one.

Wifey B: And if it's not big enough send it to your 42" or 55" or 70" or 120" television.

[SoWhat]

Originally Posted by phillippeterson

My wife is watching a trawler journey documentary. The yacht has every electronic navigation aid imaginable but still uses paper charts as well. She asked why they would use paper charts too and I didn't have a good answer.

Because there is no good answer. Astrolabes went out of fashion but I have no doubt someone somewhere is navigating with one in the boat they built with an adz.

Electronics are reliable, accurate, and inexpensive but there are luddites who can't or won't use them.

[OldDan1943]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Sounds like a lot of issues are about MFDs....more so than the display of an identical paper chart on a screen.

I can make notes on the paper charts.

[Marco Flamingo]

My experience must be unique. My Garmin has started loosing satellite connections with some regularity. I added a mushroom antenna, which did nothing. I read the manual, which is worthless. I haven't called Garmin yet as I hear that is a last ditch solution that might only add to my frustration. But I'm surprised to find out that I'm the only one who has ever lost GPS satellite connection while underway. It now takes me at least 1/2 hour after leaving the dock to get enough satellites for a position and then I'll lose them 3 or 4 times over a weekend.

I've been trying everything, updated software (twice), reset to factory settings (twice), checked voltage, etc. I was waiting to start a separate thread on TF about my problem, but now I know that I'm the only one that this has ever happened to. The MFD shows an accurate chart and a boat icon overwritten by a flashing question mark (where I was 30 minutes ago). Too bad I can't go "old school" and use the chart as a chart. Yes, I'm old enough to know how to do that.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

I can make notes on the paper charts.

Good for you...I and others have multiple ways to do the same.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo

My experience must be unique. My Garmin has started loosing satellite connections with some regularity. I added a mushroom antenna, which did nothing. I read the manual, which is worthless. I haven't called Garmin yet as I hear that is a last ditch solution that might only add to my frustration. But I'm surprised to find out that I'm the only one who has ever lost GPS satellite connection while underway. It now takes me at least 1/2 hour after leaving the dock to get enough satellites for a position and then I'll lose them 3 or 4 times over a weekend.

I've been trying everything, updated software (twice), reset to factory settings (twice), checked voltage, etc. I was waiting to start a separate thread on TF about my problem, but now I know that I'm the only one that this has ever happened to. The MFD shows an accurate chart and a boat icon overwritten by a flashing question mark (where I was 30 minutes ago). Too bad I can't go "old school" and use the chart as a chart. Yes, I'm old enough to know how to do that.

No wonder you prefer paper....

Just for grins...but a $30 GPS USB puck for a laptop and download OpenCPN and some US Raster charts and see what you think. Except for the puck...all free if you own a laptop.

I can't recommend the system for a center console...but when I went this route 10 years and 25000 miles ago...I am laughing all the way and never looking back.

Having a nice MFD system is great...but try this as a backup...low cost so what's to lose?

As the free vector charts get better...switching over isn't hard at all.

[DDW]

Originally Posted by psneeld

For those that keep saying they are different....how is a raster chart on a screen any different than a paper chart? It's basically just a photo of it.

Because the size matters. NOAA paper charts as small as the size of the average chartplotter (12 or 16") pretty much don't exist. On the plotter, what you have is either a miniature picture of the chart, or a small window frame of a small part of the chart.

Give me a high res, daylight readable, 45" diagonal screen, that I can roll up and put away when I'm not using it, for around $50 and I'm all in. Until then there is still a difference. I'll still go for the raster version as long as it is available, it communicates important information better and quicker, as well as being easier on the eyes.

[cks]

I ALWAYS have paper charts when we travel. I seldom break them out except when we want a good overview. I keep just in case. I mean, really, with electronics, what could go wrong, go wrong, go wrong…….. ?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by DDW

Because the size matters. NOAA paper charts as small as the size of the average chartplotter (12 or 16") pretty much don't exist. On the plotter, what you have is either a miniature picture of the chart, or a small window frame of a small part of the chart.

Give me a high res, daylight readable, 45" diagonal screen, that I can roll up and put away when I'm not using it, for around $50 and I'm all in. Until then there is still a difference. I'll still go for the raster version as long as it is available, it communicates important information better and quicker, as well as being easier on the eyes.

I have been using plotting software on a 14-16 inch laptop that is more than adequate for the nav that I do. Not sure why you think a raster chart from NOAA isn't available on a 14 inch laptop...I have been using them for a decade. You can zoom in on a raster with great definition where a large marina fills the whole screen


I haven't found that having a daylight viewable for my type of cruising is all that important. In the pilothouse a laptop is fine and if on the bridge...probably concentration navigation isn't huge so the small screen MFD is fine.... I just bring my 10 inch tablet up to fine tune any issues.
But all my real nav planning is easy peezy on my laptop below decks.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by cks

I ALWAYS have paper charts when we travel. I seldom break them out except when we want a good overview. I keep just in case. I mean, really, with electronics, what could go wrong, go wrong, go wrong…….. ?

Nothing for me in a decade of long distance cruising after 15 years of commercial work. Just have backups.

[2savage]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

dead recognizing ?

Ahem, 'dead reckoning' please. Sorry.

[dhays]

I'm sure others have mentioned that if your GPS signal is lost, you still have electronic charts, just no GPS.


I like paper charts.

I keep them on the boat.

I use them relatively frequently.

They are harder and more expensive to get these days.

That makes me sad.


Yes, I still wear an analog watch and have a working compass on my boat. I use both.


Yes, I use my chart plotter and GPS all the time and like it very much.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by dhays

I'm sure others have mentioned that if your GPS signal is lost, you still have electronic charts, just no GPS.


I like paper charts.

I keep them on the boat.

I use them relatively frequently.

They are harder and more expensive to get these days.

That makes me sad.


Yes, I still wear an analog watch and have a working compass on my boat. I use both.


Yes, I use my chart plotter and GPS all the time and like it very much.

Ditto. Beer at the Tides?

[Portage_Bay]

Originally Posted by dhays

I'm sure others have mentioned that if your GPS signal is lost, you still have electronic charts, just no GPS.


I like paper charts.

I keep them on the boat.

I use them relatively frequently.

They are harder and more expensive to get these days.

That makes me sad.


Yes, I still wear an analog watch and have a working compass on my boat. I use both.


Yes, I use my chart plotter and GPS all the time and like it very much.

I agree with all but the analog watch. I don't wear a watch at all. I do however have, use and prefer analog clocks.

[AlanT]

This has been a fun topic! The OP simply asked the function of paper charts to explain to his wife why an electronically equipped trawler she was following online was using them. A question which he was not able to answer.

A number of fine people dived in and provided reasons why someone might use or just have on board a paper chart even though having electronic plotters available.

That was a perfectly adequate answer to the OPs question.

It is unclear to my why a number of other fine people waged in on why paper charts are completely unnecessary, extolling all the advantages of chartplotters and one even calling those using them luddites etc. The perils of answering innocent questions!
~A

[Mako]

Would love to try a 48" or larger screen tv, laid horizontal, and run OpenCPN with a touch pen. Just need to make sure to caulk the screen edge for the drink spills which will inevitably happen

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by AlanT

This has been a fun topic! The OP simply asked the function of paper charts to explain to his wife why an electronically equipped trawler she was following online was using them. A question which he was not able to answer.

A number of fine people dived in and provided reasons why someone might use or just have on board a paper chart even though having electronic plotters available.

That was a perfectly adequate answer to the OPs question.

It is unclear to my why a number of other fine people waged in on why paper charts are completely unnecessary, extolling all the advantages of chartplotters and one even calling those using them luddites etc. The perils of answering innocent questions!
~A

I guess I would have answered there is absolutely no good reason other than they are behind the times. And explained that electronics have just about taken over the commercial world, some recs are just behind the times.

Your pointing out there was only one correct answer shows a lot right there.

I was just pointing out the ignorance of todays systems and that GPS failure has nothing to do with electronic charts. To me it's not understanding what is really there... and once one starts working full time electronically...a lot of the "I like paper better" seems to dwindle as the new way and skills develope. But using equipment not well designed for it is never gonna encourage anyone.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I guess I would have answered there is absolutely no good reason other than they are behind the times. And explained that electronics have just about taken over the commercial world, some recs are just behind the times.

Your pointing out there was only one correct answer shows a lot right there.

I was just pointing out the ignorance of todays systems and that GPS failure has nothing to do with electronic charts. To me it's not understanding what is really there... and once one starts working full time electronically...a lot of the "I like paper better" seems to dwindle as the new way and skills develope. But using equipment not well designed for it is never gonna encourage anyone.

I think you are still missing the point. They did not ask why you do not use paper charts - they asked why someone else did
. The shortest possible version of the answer to that is that they like to! The longest possible answer is to point out all the reasons why they shouldn't.

[tozz]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

... I don't recall anyone relating a credible actual story of needing, having, and using paper charts for navigation when electronics failed. Versus phone, tsblet, or PC navigation options

Interestingly enough someone just posted a scenario on the Liveaboard Lifestyle Facebook group where they were asking for such advice because in her words:

"...Last night we were caught out in some pretty rough weather and had a failure in our electrical system. No navigation instruments, no lights, etc. We were able to get into a port that I was pretty familiar with (Monterey Harbor). But if I hadn’t been, I would not have had depths, channel markers, harbor entrance, etc. No information. What do you use? We had no internet signal until we came fairly far into the bay and could double check my recollection with Google Earth. I’d love to hear from you."

Many responses including paper charts and having multiple backup devices at the ready with charts downloaded so the Internet connectivity isn't a necessity.

-tozz

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by AlanT

I think you are still missing the point. They did not ask why you do not use paper charts - they asked why someone else did
. The shortest possible version of the answer to that is that they like to! The longest possible answer is to point out all the reasons why they shouldn't.

I see your point, but it still wouldn't keep me from explaining why it isn't what everyone does.

And at least for me...when a bunch or people start pointing stuff out that isn't exactly true...I really don't focus on the OP as much as trying to keep as much info truthful or at least full enough of counterpoints that relative newcomers aren't necessarily swayed by a bunch of information that may only be partially true or true in only some cases.

Very early on there was quite of bit of opinion so why not provide some of the other "opinions".