Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-18-2020, 10:34 PM   #1
Guru
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Portland, OR
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: 1997 4800 Navigator
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 801
Older say Nordhavn or newer North Pacific/Helsman

Got me thinking the other day. Looking towards the retirement boat. We'll be coastal cruising, enough along the Westcoast to keep us busy and busy for a very very long time. Heck we could spend a few years from the San Juans to everything in-between AK. Would you rather have a solid ocean going heavily built boat such as a Nordy or would you prefer something new or newer such as a North Pacific. I realize that that is trying to compare say an apple to an orange. However, the cost would be fairly equal. One thing I don't see getting much enjoyment as I age is tracking down problems, tinkering and fixing broken issues. Some of that of course comes with any ownership. What say you?
__________________
“Try something you could fail at. We all do things that we can comfortably achieve, but rarely do we set the high bar one notch above what we think we can clear, and that’s what’s driving me on here.” Lieutenant Colonel Alastair Edward Henry Worsley MBE (4 October 1960 – 24 January 2016) Explorer
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2020, 11:12 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,263
My thoughts are that a boat that is more comfortable in a larg sea state will allow you to travel on more days.

That said, being retired who cares if you are “stuck” in port in a Coastal Cruiser.

I would buy the MOST comfortable boat for you and your traveling companion as #1 priority. Whatever that boat is, that is the one to buy.

Cruising up and down a coast you will realistically probably be actually cruising one day a week at the most. The other six days you will be living on a boat.

Chose the most live aboard friendly boat you can get, and stay in port on snotty days.

If that thought process leads you to a Nordhavn, then Fantastic, buy one. If it leads you to a North Pacific, buy that, but never forget that when you are living on a boat for any significant length of time, live aboard comfort is paramount.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2020, 11:26 PM   #3
Guru
 
IRENE's Avatar
 
City: Sea of Cortez, Mexico
Vessel Name: Irene
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 40II
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,234
Bshillam,

Good question.

I agree with your first response from ksanders.

You probably won’t need an offshore boat as most of us will stay in, or head in, if the wx gets bad. Similar with the fuel capacity, everything being discussed has enough range.

We have looked closely at the Helmsman and it is a very impressive boat. After the initial commissioning details, it would hopefully be years before any major services, new canvas or soft goods, or new electronics.

I think new sounds nice, if you are OK with the depreciation and exit strategy (resale). I am fairly confident you could spend as much as that depreciation refitting an older Nordhavn.
__________________
Jeff
MV IRENE
IRENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2020, 11:30 PM   #4
Guru
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Portland, OR
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: 1997 4800 Navigator
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
My thoughts are that a boat that is more comfortable in a larg sea state will allow you to travel on more days.

That said, being retired who cares if you are “stuck” in port in a Coastal Cruiser.

I would buy the MOST comfortable boat for you and your traveling companion as #1 priority. Whatever that boat is, that is the one to buy.

Cruising up and down a coast you will realistically probably be actually cruising one day a week at the most. The other six days you will be living on a boat.

Chose the most live aboard friendly boat you can get, and stay in port on snotty days.

If that thought process leads you to a Nordhavn, then Fantastic, buy one. If it leads you to a North Pacific, buy that, but never forget that when you are living on a boat for any significant length of time, live aboard comfort is paramount.

Great advice indeed. I like that thought. Plan is to cruise 6 months out of the year and be land bound the other six. We're considering wintering somewhere other than the PNW.
__________________
“Try something you could fail at. We all do things that we can comfortably achieve, but rarely do we set the high bar one notch above what we think we can clear, and that’s what’s driving me on here.” Lieutenant Colonel Alastair Edward Henry Worsley MBE (4 October 1960 – 24 January 2016) Explorer
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 01:22 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Beaverlake's Avatar
 
City: Sammamish
Vessel Name: Knot Home
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4788 - 1998
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 239
For west coast coastal cruising you have a lot of options depending on budget. Tolly 53/57/60+. Ocean Alexander. Nordic Tug. American Tug. Selene. Seahorse. Etc. New or used. The list of options goes on and on. My recommendation is to shop brokers first. Really dig. A good broker will help refine your needs and wants and get you to the right boat. No boat is trouble free. Get good bones, invest in establishing a documented baseline and the ENJOY!
__________________
Patti & Gordon
Knot Home - 1998 Bayliner 4788
Anacortes WA
MMSI 368040370
Beaverlake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 02:12 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
While I really like the quality of the Nordhavns, they are not as spacious as some others. If your goal isn’t crossing oceans then I would go with the roomier boat. NPs seem to well though of on the forum, so I would probably go that way.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 05:31 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Bshillam
On any vessel access to all systems weighs in heavily for us, especially as we and the boat age. Visit the ER, rudder, water, fuel, electrical, instruments, plumbing, windlass etc areas to assess the ease of inevitable repairs.

A full size washer and dryer is a nicety as is storage and lots of it. Ns have great dock access, a mere step off that once into your 70s becomes a must to many. There are several good choices beyond the vessels you've noted. Boat shows, dock walking and a few trips to AK on your present vessel will answer a lot of questions.

Heading to Mexico opens a different door or two in not only vessel equipment such as redundancy, mechanical skills, good AC and water makers but linguistic skills and social awareness as well.

There is no one answer. Many vessels have done what you contemplate. Owner experience and desires cannot easily be answered by strangers on the Internet. Oh, then the budget.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:16 AM   #8
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,166
You will probably lose less money in a used boat in good condition with relatively fresh electronics than a new one. Stabilizers come to mind - probably $40k add on to new build but more or less expected in resale market, at least for nordhavn. By the time you're done with fabrics, dinghy, outboard, crane, HVAC, and upgrades to electronics and do-dads, I'd guess a new build has well over $100k in additional expense, little of which will be recovered at resale (and that estimate may be way low). Plus a used boat is available now.

Some thoughts depend on which Nordhavn and which NP/Helmsman you are considering. The N40 is an incredible little boat for its size. The N47 was not my favorite (I delivered several of each from Dana Point to PNW). I've never been aboard a NP/Helmsman but it looks like a nice layout (though Helmsman has an odd day-head layout that seems like wasted space, but maybe that disappears when aboard) with a decent engine room space, though does not compare with the more-or-less standing headroom of the Nordhavn line. The older Nordhavn mostly came with Luggers, and all Nordhavn are equipped with wing engines which is a plus on both accounts.

Financially, I think you'd work out better with trying to resell a Nordhavn than most any other brand let alone a NP/Helmsman. Personally, assuming the NP (or Helmsman) is as nice as it appears to be, I'd lean towards either for the trip you're contemplating. I personally like full-width salons and can live without side decks. Some folks prefer side-decks.

Good luck

Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 09:41 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,440
What Ksanders said.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 09:44 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Whosville
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 192
If you want twins, there aren't many choices.
leeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 09:53 AM   #11
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders;890891......being retired who cares if you are “stuck” in port in a Coastal Cruiser......[B
I would buy the MOST comfortable boat for you and your traveling companion as #1 priority.[/B] Whatever that boat is, that is the one to buy.......Choose the most live aboard friendly boat you can get, and stay in port on snotty days......
never forget that when you are living on a boat for any significant length of time, live aboard comfort is paramount.
My thoughts exactly!
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 09:57 AM   #12
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
Getting back to the OP? What has been your cruising experience with your Navigator, and why is it not a candidate for your long term vessel? Based on your cruising experience, what have you learned is most important to you and yours? Knowing those things, then the group may be able to come up with some better suggestions on what to look at.

Sunchaser makes some great points, particularly when it comes to piloting and maintenance ergonomics. Age of the hull is not much of a determining factor at all. It's all the systems installed inside the hull that cost money, time and effort (and various degrees of agility) to maintain and replace. An older boat with recently updated or overhauled systems may well be a better value than a "newer" one that has not.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 10:01 AM   #13
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
While I really like the quality of the Nordhavns, they are not as spacious as some others. If your goal isn’t crossing oceans then I would go with the roomier boat.
I agree with the above but I would add a "roomier stand-up ER & twins."
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 11:18 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeman View Post
If you want twins, there aren't many choices.
If one assumes a get home, all Ns are twins as well as many Selenes. The new kid on the block, the N41 has twins. Plenty of choices and no absolutes fit the OPs post.

Add to the list, well found vessels like Hatteras, DeFever, Cheoy Lee, Grand Banks and many more. Calteflex's thought is correct, why not a Navigator?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 11:50 AM   #15
Guru
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Portland, OR
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: 1997 4800 Navigator
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Getting back to the OP? What has been your cruising experience with your Navigator, and why is it not a candidate for your long term vessel?
Great question it's a 97 and access will become a problem. I'd prefer to be able to walk into an ER to maintain systems. Long term such as batteries, oil changes, zincs, filters, and such. I'd also like a larger salon. Something closer to 50-60. The Gator has a nice salon and for us a bit larger of a cockpit than necessary. I'd like more salon space than cockpit. Ideally I would be looking to something as a resale that has most of the systems I would like to see.

Just starting the process, more thinking at this stage. About five years from now I'll get serious. In the mean time it's improving the systems on the current boat, making cosmetic upgrades, catching up on some delayed maintenance and such. The Gator is working well for us now and might just into retirement but I'd like something a bit heavier and over all larger for long term living.
__________________
“Try something you could fail at. We all do things that we can comfortably achieve, but rarely do we set the high bar one notch above what we think we can clear, and that’s what’s driving me on here.” Lieutenant Colonel Alastair Edward Henry Worsley MBE (4 October 1960 – 24 January 2016) Explorer
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 12:47 PM   #16
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
Although I would love a Nordhavn or KK of any vintage, I guess, for you, I would go with a newer boat.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 02:09 PM   #17
Guru
 
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,019
Lieutenant Colonel Alastair Edward Henry Worsley MBE

I haven't seen MBE show up in anything I've read for a long time. My dad had an MBE and Mention in Dispatch from WW 2 (Italian campaign - the first real D day for the invasion of Europe by Allied troops).
rsn48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 04:54 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
City: Middle River MD
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 102
One thing to consider is how long you expect to be away from the dock. This will vary from boat to boat with the longer range boats having more redundancy and capacity.

Things like
Dual generators
Dual domestic water pumps
Dual water heaters
Water and waste tank capacity
Water Maker
Storage and refrigeration capacity.
Trash compactor
Dual anchors.
etc.

You don't need most of them but for example not having domestic water available shuts down the fun part of cruising pretty quickly.
jhall767 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:09 PM   #19
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
J hall
Hundreds if not thousands of vessels ply the waters annually from Oregon to AK lacking most of the items on your list. No problem finding shore stops to deal with fluid fills, stores and general maintenance assistance.

By all means carry spare parts for wear items. Two things to remember though, spotty cell phone service and no tow boat assistance. You're often on your own, a real treat for most of us.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2020, 06:09 PM   #20
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
I'm with you 100% on the accessibility thing. We used to charter a beautiful GB 49 Classic up through the San Juans and Gulf Islands, and another beauty, a GB 49MY in SW Florida, and one of many things I loved about them was the standup engine room and sensible positioning and layout of systems.

The old definition of cruising holds true "Fixing your boat in exotic places".

When it came time for us to buy a boat to live onboard and cruise full time for several years (well, about 6, but that was up from the "plan" to do it for two) those values and many others made the must have list. The old Hatteras 53' + Motoryachts (and the new/newer ones too, actually) had great walk-in (two doors each) engine rooms one for each engine on each side of the companionway to the aft stateroom and extremely well thought out system design and layout. We ended up with a 56 and loved it, maybe loved it too much.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012