Offer accepted on Beebe design!

[Whodgins]

I second the several recommendations of others here to do as you have and deeply mine the mind of the mechanic who has been maintaining this Gardner 8LXB for over 25 years, he will be a treasure trove of information for you. On the other hand, as an owner of a 6LXB, which is literally identical to yours, just two cylinders less and having just done a full back to factory new rebuild, that in many ways a Gardner is one of the most easily serviced diesel engines you will ever find. ANY good mechanic, especially one that is more "old school" and has been around diesels for a long time, will be very familiar with your Gardner even if he/she has never seen one before as they simply could not be more simple and easy to understand. There are certainly some unique features, or at least they would be to the more modern diesel mechanics such as compression release levers, ability to start with a hand crank (not kidding), they are otherwise as basic as a diesel engine gets. It is as much about what a Gardner does NOT have as what it does such as no turbo, NO electronics OR electrics other than the 24V starter, direct all mechanical fuel injection, etc. etc.

From the perspective of YOU getting to know and have confidence in your Gardner you have the perfect situation with the well experienced mechanic who knows her well. I am just adding that once you head out cruising you need not worry about finding a "Gardner Mechanic", just a well experienced diesel engine mechanic and you'll be fine.

I would also HIGHLY recommend that you contact Michael Harrison who runs Gardner Marine Diesel in Cantebury England and build a good relationship with him and his crew there. They are the continuation of the original Gardner company, Michael's Dad worked for the original Gardner company almost all his working life and then bought up all the inventory and machines when Gardner went out of business. They can provide you with OEM parts or rebuilt ones for pretty much ever single one of the very few parts that a Gardner LXB has and IMHO they are THE definitive experts when it comes to Gardner engines as they continue to this day to rebuild them and service them around the world. Michael and his crew at GMD have been absolutely fantastic to deal with and I can not recommend them to you highly enough.

If you have specific questions or ways I might assist you feel free to contact me either here or at wayne.hodgins@gmail.com and if you have time on your hands you can check out the rebuild of our Gardner 6LXB in many of the weekly progress updates I post on our blog of building our XPM78-01 Möbius on the Mobius.World blog my wife and I maintain. I will be doing the first start up of our 6LXB next month once we finish the build of our new boat and get her launched and in the water.

You will come to be truly impressed with your "new" Gardner and congratulations and enjoy the whole experience with your new boat.

Wayne

 

[slowgoesit]

We rarely drug the CQR, never found any condition that one or the other of our anchors would not hold in. We did have a 150# storm anchor, just in case. I would suggest going with the Mantus or Ronca etc in one size up from the CQR, but keep the CQR.
Have a great time cruising this fantastic boat.

We already purchased an 85lb Mantus M1, but are considering go up to the 105lb M1 . . .

 

[slowgoesit]

I would also HIGHLY recommend that you contact Michael Harrison who runs Gardner Marine Diesel in Cantebury England and build a good relationship with him and his crew there. Wayne

Wayne, thanks for your post! I have already been in contact with Michael. His crew was in the US in November, and will not be back until February, but he asked for specifics on the engine/boat, and he said he will e-mail me a list of specific items to check during survey. How's THAT for service? I'm impressed so far. Looking forward to getting my hands dirty in the ER!
One question, do people bother unloading multiple cylinders prior to starting engine? Current owner states he never has.

 

[Rob]

Slowgoesit, personally I think you’re investing in an awesome machine! I live in La Conner and walk by “PAPAZIA” every day, if we hadn’t of recently purchased a Kady-Krogen your boat would have fit the bill perfectly! Our previous boat was a 40 foot Bill Garden designed full displacement PH setup with paravanes which we used frequently cruising back and forth to Alaska including crossing the Golf of Alaska a few times. You will find that there are a lot of fellow boaters out there that with absolutely no personal experience using this type of stabilization system other than seeing the drama in the movie “The Perfect Storm” Other than the physical work involved with deploying and retrieving them there’s nothing more reliable in my opinion. Your system looks good! When you come to La Conner you will find that we have lots of boating resources in the area, also there is a very nice small hotel adjacent to where the boat is moored as well as a nice wine shop in case you need to make any executive decisions!

 

[slowgoesit]

Slowgoesit, personally I think you’re investing in an awesome machine! I live in La Conner and walk by “PAPAZIA” every day, if we hadn’t of recently purchased a Kady-Krogen your boat would have fit the bill perfectly! Our previous boat was a 40 foot Bill Garden designed full displacement PH setup with paravanes which we used frequently cruising back and forth to Alaska including crossing the Golf of Alaska a few times. You will find that there are a lot of fellow boaters out there that with absolutely no personal experience using this type of stabilization system other than seeing the drama in the movie “The Perfect Storm” Other than the physical work involved with deploying and retrieving them there’s nothing more reliable in my opinion. Your system looks good! When you come to La Conner you will find that we have lots of boating resources in the area, also there is a very nice small hotel adjacent to where the boat is moored as well as a nice wine shop in case you need to make any executive decisions!

Rob, my last time in La Conner was in 1985 with my 34' Monk! I imagine it's changed a bit. Paravanes were top on our list of stabilization. I like the passive aspects, and no drag when not in use. We won't actually SEE the boat in person until 6 Jan. So tell me, is it represented correctly in the pics? By that I mean, if standing dockside, does it look nice, or shabby?

 

[Rob]

First things first, I am personal friends with a couple of brokers from Fairhaven. I have absolutely NO business interest at all! Now that thats out of the way, true trawlers are the style of boat that I have primary interest in as well as having owned a couple. When I look at a boat I look at functionality much more deeply than the shiny bright work! PAPAZIA really appeals to me, looks very capable as a long range, comfortable and capable boat. I was first introduced to this boat after reading Beebe’s Voyaging Under Power III. I Have never been aboard your boat but I would like too! When I look at the boat the first thing that I noticed is that the hull looks great in addition to the classic lines. The boat is thirty eight years old and I realize that, it’s a capable trawler not a yacht! Bang for the buck, that’s a lot of boat. It’s not a half a million dollar used boat. All boats that age will require a few projects, the teak is natural but all looks substantial. Perfect! The rigging looks fairly good but I haven’t inspected it closely. As far as I can see from the pictures the interior is old style, clean and very functional. If I were boat shopping for a trawler that was a good capable boat would I be interested? Yes!

 

[moparharn]

Slowgoesit- Good luck on the 8th. I expect a good day for you.
Question- You purchased a Manta, yes? Did you compare other anchors like the Rocna? I saw your comments to Sylphide on his Mantus. Just wondering what went into your choice and weight. Thanks, Bill

Oops forgot one thing- YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A THREAD SIMILAR TO SYLPHIDE. RIGHT? RIGHT!

 

[slowgoesit]

Slowgoesit- Good luck on the 8th. I expect a good day for you.
Question- You purchased a Manta, yes? Did you compare other anchors like the Rocna? I saw your comments to Sylphide on his Mantus. Just wondering what went into your choice and weight. Thanks, Bill

Oops forgot one thing- YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A THREAD SIMILAR TO SYLPHIDE. RIGHT? RIGHT!

Bill, Okay, first to lay some groundwork. We hadn't yet purchased a boat. We were looking at the one we offered on along with one other. Then those crumbs at Mantus had the nerve to notify me that from one of the contests they were running, I won second prize, 50% off any my entire order . . . . . .

Now the conundrum. We didn't yet have a boat, we had been wavering between the Mantus, and the Rocna, but this was too good an opportunity to pass up, right? So I marshaled my arguments, and confronted the Minister of Finance, who could be relied upon to be the voice of reason. I stated "Well we know the type of boat we are looking for, know basically the size anchor we want, so why don't we buy both the M1 and M2 (since we didn't know what the bow pulpit/roller assemblies would look like), Once we get the boat, we'll try both anchors, keep the one we like the best, and sell the other one! We should be able to sell it for what we purchased it for!

So the Voice of Reason, otherwise known as the Conservative One, the Responsible One, and the Minister of Finance, replied, "I don't have a problem with that, do what ever you think best!" Crap! Now it's up to ME to the the Responsible One. I've got to tell you, I'm not well cut out for that role! (Did I mention that we have an 11' Zodiac Rib with 30HP Honda, and swing out console, on a trailer, sitting in our Bat Cave?? In Kentucky) Hint: it was purchased with the intent that we would already have a tender when we purchased our next boat. Hint #2: The boat already HAS a tender, a very nice AB11AL with a nice Dihatsu 4 stroke, 25hp engine . . . . Anyone need a tender?!? I'm also not going to go into details regarding the 660' spool of 3/4" three strand nylon anchor line sitting in the bat cave, or the scuba compressor, or the 12 scuba tanks, 3 SUP's, 4 cases of oil absorbent pads, or box of oil absorbent pigs . . . (don't let me loose with on line auctions, it's REALLY dangerous, but that's another story altogether, and I think we're on our third "other story" so far in this post).

Anyway, getting back to the Mantus, you can't just buy the anchor! Not at 50% off at least! It's like only eating one potato chip! So there's the associated 3/8" anchor swivel, 3/8"chain hook, And did you see the cool Scuba packs with the little 24 cu ft tanks they have?!? Did I mention the SS dingy anchor . . . wait, getting ahead of myself here. Did you notice that the boat we're (hopefully) buying has 350 feet of anchor chain . . . wait for it, that's 1/2" anchor chain . . . please refer back to the anchor swivels and chain hooks I mentioned earlier, both in 3/8".


SOOoooo, getting back to your first question, The choice was Mantus or Rocna, very similar anchors. With the contest, it made buying the Mantus anchor a no brainer. Boats we were looking at were Defever 48's or 49RPH. Size for that length and weight boat was Mantus M1 or M2, weight 85lbs, size chain 3/8"!
Easy, right?!? So we ordered . . .Oh, did I mention that the order was being shipped to Kentucky, for use on the boat we were looking for on the East or Gulf Coast? So now, you may have noticed, the boat we're purchasing is in the PNW, so I called Mantus and they are holding shipping our order pending on whether the boat passes survey. If it does, Mantus will ship to our daughter's address on Anderson Island, in PNW. . . .

Next issue. The boat we're buying, max weight is 64,000lbs. Much heavier than Defever's we were looking at . . . so the 105lb Mantus may be a better fit Darn, my head is hurting . . . And did I also mention that we will need the 1/2" swivel now?!? And we ordered 3/8" . . . Best laid plans and all that . .

And on a thread similar to Dave's on Sylphide, I'm not any where in his league! Although we WILL be getting a composting toilet . . . like Dave's . . . but that is yet ANOTHER story!

 

[moparharn]

I'm actually wondering if we might be related. My grandparents on both sides hail from Kentucky. When the dust settles on all of this please keep me in mind for whatever is left over. I am just as crazy, err , I mean forward thinking as you are and will likely need the same things for the same reasons (minus scuba maybe). Who doesn't need a spare Mantus in 3/8 inch and a 600 foot spool of line? If I don't get my trawler this year maybe I could get a tender instead? You see how forward thinking I am. Let me know what you want to sell.

A thread/blog on how this plays out and your first year (if it all goes down) would be of tremendous help to those of us in the waiting room. Please consider it as a humanitarian gesture.
Bill

 

[slowgoesit]

Bill, that's kind of humbling that you think of us as people who might be able to pass on words of wisdom to others! On the other hand, people might want to take anything we do with a LARGE block of salt and figure out how to do things the RIGHT way! before they follow our advice . . . (there must be a light switch around here somewhere . . . . and just WHO put a Rabbit Hole where I wanted to walk anyway?)
One thing we are sure to be selling is a Newmar Dutch Star, 38.5' diesel Class A, vintage 2001 . . .just don't see any reason to keep the boat AND a Class A coach! But we will probably use it to move scant possessions (after all, no need to move furniture) to WA for moving onto the boat . . . and selling up there. Easier to social distance crossing the country, and also easier to travel w/ 4 cats. Soon to be "boat kitties". We'll sell our house here in KY, but keep the Bat Cave, shop for our metal work, and small efficiency apartment . . on 1.5 acres. Did I mention that the Bat Cave is full of lots of STUFF? STUFF is capitalized for a reason. We have way too much of it! Oh, I forgot to mention the 3 cattle. No, we don't plan on making them "boat cattle", but since we are moving, we certainly don't want to haul a freezer load of beef across country, so will be selling them to neighbors . . . Just another thang!

 

[Captain DJ]

It was YW at fault, and me for not just calling.
My loss, but your gain. You have a fine vessel there sir.
Wishing you the very best adventure and may she exceed
your expectations.

 

[GoldenDawn]

Here’s a link to someone who really knows his Gardner diesels and recently did an in-Hull rebuild on the Columbia III. Not sure they could be any assistance in your inspection but reading Ross’s blog is a hoot.

https://seakayakbritishcolumbia.com/2020/01/

They are not too far away but in Canada that complicates border crossing.

Good luck - sounds like a fantastic boat.

 

[slowgoesit]

GoldenDawn, Thanks, I'll check it out!

 

[sunchaser]

SOOoooo, getting back to your first question, The choice was Mantus or Rocna, very similar anchors. With the contest, it made buying the Mantus anchor a no brainer. Boats we were looking at were Defever 48's or 49RPH. Size for that length and weight boat was Mantus M1 or M2, weight 85lbs, size chain 3/8"!

Slow
We have a Vulcan 40kg, 3/8" BBB and Maxwell 2200 on our DF 48. It all works like a charm. You're thinking correctly on your anchor size.

One thing, if not done right in the past 3 years, have your windlass serviced with all seals replaced and upper deck clips/retaining rings carefully checked. Maxwell seals will start leaking due to time only, don't ask me how I know.

BTW, that advice from Whodgins (he's the real deal) is spot on, glad to see you're already on top of it. What is that oil drip from the Hundestad all about? Congrats on your find.

 

[slowgoesit]

Slow
We have a Vulcan 40kg, 3/8" BBB and Maxwell 2200 on our DF 48. It all works like a charm. You're thinking correctly on your anchor size.

One thing, if not done right in the past 3 years, have your windlass serviced with all seals replaced and upper deck clips/retaining rings carefully checked. Maxwell seals will start leaking due to time only, don't ask me how I know.

BTW, that advice from Whodgins (he's the real deal) is spot on, glad to see you're already on top of it. What is that oil drip from the Hundestad all about? Congrats on your find.

Sunchaser, Thinking correctly for the 85lb, or the 105lb? I will check on the anchor windlass. Windlass rebuild kits appear to be readily available online for less than $35.00!

https://www.anchorexpress.com/Maxwe...MI247r2a727QIVg52GCh3LfgyWEAQYAyABEgKn5_D_BwE

The Hundestad propeller had just been serviced (required every 5 years or 2000 hours of operation from what I can tell, last serviced in 2016, so will need service again next year when I haul out for bottom paint) and excess grease had not yet been cleaned off!
Thanks for all the help!

 

[Rob]

Slowgoesit- Sounds like you will be in La Conner sometime next week. About the only place to stay is at the “Channel Lodge” which seems to be very popular. If you request a room on the south end water front side you will be directly adjacent to PAPAZIA. I see some conversation here about anchors. My personal opinion is that you won’t go wrong with either the original Rocna or the newer style Vulcan. I’ve owned both, currently have the Vulcan on the KK42. I’ve owned several anchors over the years and can’t say enough good about the Vulcan, we’ve used Bruce, CQR, And these two. Nothing lifts up as much mud and crap from the bottom as a Rocna/Vulcan, we anchored out about fifty nights this past season and never had an issue other than really getting it hooked up very hard a few times. My wife really trusts this anchor as well, she loves to be at the wheel when I’m up foreword dealing with the ground tackle. When you’re in La Conner if there’s anything that I can assist you with feel free to give me a call 360-544-2787, I only live a quarter mile from the boat. Rob

 

[Whodgins]

Wayne, thanks for your post! I have already been in contact with Michael. His crew was in the US in November, and will not be back until February, but he asked for specifics on the engine/boat, and he said he will e-mail me a list of specific items to check during survey. How's THAT for service? I'm impressed so far. Looking forward to getting my hands dirty in the ER!
One question, do people bother unloading multiple cylinders prior to starting engine? Current owner states he never has.

Well done SlowGoesIt for connecting with Michael Harrison at Gardner Marine Diesel, it will continue to pay off as your stewardship of your Gardner continues for many years. I've been fortunate enough to make several visits to GMD over the past 5 years and it is always a treat and a great set of learning experiences so if you ever get the chance, once we all start traveling again, I can recommend a GMD visit very highly. Just give Michael a heads up well in advance to find a time when he will be there and able to meet with you as well. He travels extensively and globally to help Gardner powered ship owners, mostly commercial, to set things right when they are doing a major rebuild/repower of a Gardner engine boat. That is actually the primary business of GMD, building "drop in" replacement Gardner engines for commercial boats so that their down time is just a few days as time truly is $$$ for them. As a result, Michael and his crew have created a kind of Gardner 2.0 version of the original company wherein they now have pretty much every single part of most Gardner models available as an OEM new part. The only thing they don't make are the big castings such as the crankcase, cylinder heads and crankshafts so there is still some dependency on finding those components in a used Gardner engine somewhere. To this end, GMD is always out scouting for Gardner engines that become available or with the trade ins they receive. As a result they have always been able to find any part I needed and ship it to me and these range from the full inventory of new parts that you can find on their Spare Parts store, or used items they can scavenge from their large inventory of "previously owned" Gardners.

As for your question about "unloading multiple cylinders prior to starting the engine", I can't speak to what % of owners do this but there are several good reasons for doing this. On the LXB models such as you and I have, there is a compression release levers on each cylinder head and flipping these keeps all the intake valves in that head to stay open and thus have no compression resistance. Why would you want to do this? Well, it is the reason that you are able to hand crank start these massive engines as the spin very easily with the hand crank and in most cases, mine included you have the optional super HD flywheel so it is pretty easy to get the engine up to speed with a lot of momentum behind it from that flywheel and then flip those compression release levers and the Gardner starts almost immediately.

The other use of these compression release levers when you are still going to use the either 24V or compressed air starter, is to allow you to bring up the oil pressure with no loads on the engine. Some might say that this is overkill in the extreme given the already looooooooong life of a Gardner, but for some of us, especially those of us with single engine boats and no "wing engine", you can never take too good a care of your main/only engine!

I also find these compression release levers and the hand crank to be very useful for turning the crankshaft when doing maintenance items such as checking valve clearances, fuel injection timing, etc.

So as you can tell, I will be using my compression release levers pretty much every day and am very glad to have this option available.

Congratulations again on your new boat and for joining the Gardner fraternity!

-Wayne

 

[slowgoesit]

Wayne, thanks for the write up! We'll be taking our first look at the boat in person Tuesday evening. We're starting to get excited!

 

[slowgoesit]

First Look

Looked at boat today . . . . Holy Crapola! It's BIG!

 

[GoldenDawn]

Hopefully you fell in love . . .

 

[slowgoesit]

Official survey is tomorrow, but several issues came up in out personal inspection that may nix the deal. We haven't decided against at this time, and are still going to continue with survey, haul out and sea trial, but we're a little disappointed on a couple of our findings. I'm not going to go into more detail at this time, but still going to survey tomorrow.

 

[Kit_L]

slowgoesit—there is no such thing as a perfect boat, in my experience. Don't let a negative or two influence your appreciation of the whole—instead, do an energy budget of what it will cost you both to bring the boat up to scratch. Can that be balanced against the worthwhileness of the whole?

 

[Rob]

Kit is 100% correct, there is no such thing as a perfect survey. On the last and present boat that we now own I was so disappointed with the survey, I darn near made myself sick. But I was able to negotiate a price that helped me feel a lot better. Remember that the boat that you’re looking at is a one off custom built boat, what appealed to the original owner may not appeal to you. I guess the big question is, is it safe and functional. Personally I like the lines and design of the boat! By the way I walked down to where the boat was docked and she was gone, guess you were out enjoying our high and muddy winter post storm waters.

 

[slowgoesit]

slowgoesit—there is no such thing as a perfect boat, in my experience. Don't let a negative or two influence your appreciation of the whole—instead, do an energy budget of what it will cost you both to bring the boat up to scratch. Can that be balanced against the worthwhileness of the whole?

Pending something bad from fluid samples final survey report, I think we're going to have a new boat. . . Thanks for the comments above, so true!

Kit is 100% correct, there is no such thing as a perfect survey. On the last and present boat that we now own I was so disappointed with the survey, I darn near made myself sick. But I was able to negotiate a price that helped me feel a lot better. Remember that the boat that you’re looking at is a one off custom built boat, what appealed to the original owner may not appeal to you. I guess the big question is, is it safe and functional. Personally I like the lines and design of the boat! By the way I walked down to where the boat was docked and she was gone, guess you were out enjoying our high and muddy winter post storm waters.

Rob, I agree with you! So nice to meet you in person today when we got back from the survey. Next time, and after we close, we'll invite you down to see through her, and my wife and I would love to see your boat as well! We should have the survey and fluid analysis some time next week. Keeping our fingers crossed!

 

[BogCollector]

Looking forward to hearing how it went...

 

[slowgoesit]

Survey was good. Waiting on final written survey, and results of fluid samples. Probably toward the end of the week. One issue that came out of the inspection was the aft fiberglass water tank has a leak when the tank is completely full. The seller thinks it is at the point where the side wall meets the top. I suspect a floor beam was placed in a position where it chafed on the tank over the years, but we didn't have time to fill the tank and verify the exact location of the leak. We will probably go ahead with the purchase and look at repairing the tank ourselves. The top of the tank has a 14" inspection port, and it doesn't look like any part of the top of the tank is more than 24" from the edge of the inspection port, so I think the area to repaired will be accessible. Other than that, only two items really showed up. There is a seawater temperature gauge on and a rudder position indicator in the pilot house which do not work, and several older style lights in the boat that do not work. Also, one cruisaire HVAC doesn't start, and the other one is of the same vintage, 40 years old. So we will plan on replacing both with new drop in units. The rudder position is also on the autopilot, so I will chase the other gauge problem at a later date. Other than that, no issues. More later

 

[hollywood8118]

Survey was good. Waiting on final written survey, and results of fluid samples. Probably toward the end of the week. One issue that came out of the inspection was the aft fiberglass water tank has a leak when the tank is completely full. The seller thinks it is at the point where the side wall meets the top. I suspect a floor beam was placed in a position where it chafed on the tank over the years, but we didn't have time to fill the tank and verify the exact location of the leak. We will probably go ahead with the purchase and look at repairing the tank ourselves. The top of the tank has a 14" inspection port, and it doesn't look like any part of the top of the tank is more than 24" from the edge of the inspection port, so I think the area to repaired will be accessible. Other than that, only two items really showed up. There is a seawater temperature gauge on and a rudder position indicator in the pilot house which do not work, and several older style lights in the boat that do not work. Also, one cruisaire HVAC doesn't start, and the other one is of the same vintage, 40 years old. So we will plan on replacing both with new drop in units. The rudder position is also on the autopilot, so I will chase the other gauge problem at a later date. Other than that, no issues. More later

Sounds like a pretty short list of easy to get to items.
As others have said, ALL boats are a compromise, one off custom boats tend to be owner specific builds.


Good luck on the purchase!
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Blissboat]

Had to smile when you mentioned the rudder angle indicator, mentally picturing one of those old ribbon-gauge style Raritan displays. Seems that at least half of the many dozens that I have seen don't work. That's probably how I learned to get along without one, and honestly to me they seem unnecessary. Keeping mental track of your rudder position when maneuvering or steaming is instinctive. When preparing to get underway, I always test the helm movement anyway, and finish by centering the wheel.

 

[IRENE]

This is good news. The survey and inspection of our 2011 boat revealed more discrepancies than your survey.

I look forward to a tour, please!

 

[firehoser75]

Congrats on the results, it sounds very good. I had more items listed on the survey for a brand new sailboat I bought in 2004!!!
Used boats will have some issues. You just don't want numerous or expensive issues.