O/B Trawler type loop boat

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BandB said:
Significant waves will be encountered on the loop. On the coastal portion the ICW is an option to minimize them. The Great Lakes, however, you're exposed. You can wait out the worst, but still are likely to encounter some very choppy, short period, 3-4' conditions.

By speed are we talking 6-7 knots? Or slower?
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Most will be able to go faster than that - as well as canals there are rivers such as the Rhone which can run quite a few knots, and you need to be able to make headway against that.
 
Insequent said:
Most will be able to go faster than that - as well as canals there are rivers such as the Rhone which can run quite a few knots, and you need to be able to make headway against that.
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It's interesting that they just haven't made it in the US. Perhaps they've been labeled and slotted as "canal boats" or the builder just hasn't been interested.
 
Back in 2010 or 11 I visited a little town by the name of Saint Jean de Losne in France. Its located at a kind of crossroads for canal cruising and has some charter fleets and brokerages with a a lot of listings. You see a range of boat types for sale at a single location, so I spent a few days there.

Here is a brokerage I found very helpful with their current listings. I could not see the type of boat that really impressed me, a 15m GRP design. And there are are more steel cruisers than I remember. Perhaps the most noticeable styling difference is the outdoor helm and bimini are invariably at the stern. This is to minimise air draft for going under bridges. Installed HP is similar to what we see here on TF members boats.

List of boats for sale: yachts, houseboats, tjalk, luxemotor
 
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A few years ago we came across this boat heading up towards Ft Myers.
 

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Steve said:
A few years ago we came across this boat heading up towards Ft Myers.
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Might be the perspective of that photo, but that looks like somebody hit our old Carver 3207 with a shrink ray and mounted an outboard on the swim platform. (That Carver 3207 was a great boat. Tons of room for the size. Relatively simple systems, nice ride. Really comfortable except for all the ups and downs. I miss that old boat. I learned to handle twins on that boat. Didn't have quite the windage of our current giant tennis shoe either. If it weren't for the split aft berths so my wife and I had to sleep on opposite sides, we would maybe still have that one. Now I'm getting all nostalgic. That was a good boat.)
 
Just saw this boat on an episode of Sailing La vagabond when they were in Malta. Looks like a Sea Ray type boat?
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My wife and I have decided to sell our boat and use the proceeds to help pay for a condo in SW Florida where we will split our time with our house in Connecticut. Having made that decision, I am looking at what type of much smaller/cheaper boat I could buy to keep down there and get away for a night or two on the hook every once in a while.

One that has come up is the C-Dory 22 or 25. Both have an 8'-6" beam so are trailerable and both are outboard powered. The 22 fits within the towing capabilities of our current SUV at an all up towing weight of less than 5,000 lbs. The 25 has more room, pressurized water, heater, marine toilet and shower, but requires a 3/4 ton pickup or big SUV to tow. So I will probably live with the porta potty and solar showers on the 22.

The numbers for the smaller 22 are quite nice. With a 90 hp O/B it will cruise at 15 kts and will burn about 5 gph of gas. That is 3 Nm per gallon which compares very favorably to our bigger trawlers going half that speed. And you trailer it to your cruising destination at 60 mph rather than get there at 8 mph. Since I have evolved to more of a destination guy (like my wife) than a journey guy, this works well for me.

With a trailerable "trawler" I can take it down to the Keys or up to the river and lakes of the St John's. It is like a camper but with your own little pocket cruiser thrown in.

The C-Dory has a very active, some would say fanatical, support group at c-brats.com. Some members have even done the loop in a 22, more in a 25 and some in the Tomcat 25, which has only been on the market for a few years. They also have a big annual get together on the St John's north of Orlando.

Ten year old 25s go for $50K and 22s for $30K. C-brats even has advice on how to use it as a camper at RV parks along the way, including Walmarts (put a hose to catch grey water from the sink- RV parks frown very seriously on any water discharge).

Other than the minimal fresh water and holding tank capacity on the 25 or lack of a marine toilet and pressurized water system on the 22, I can't think of anything wrong with hanging out on the hook for a few days on one. I wouldn't do the loop on one (I am now a destination guy, remember) but I would have considered doing so in my younger years when I couldn't afford a real trawler.

I looked at other trailerables, the Rosborough RF246,the Ranger Tug 25 and the Acadia 25 downeaster. All on the used market are diesels and are considerably heavier than the C-Dory 25. It would take a 1 ton truck to haul any of these.

David
 
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djmarchand said:
One that has come up is the C-Dory 22 or 25. Both have an 8'-6" beam so are trailerable and both are outboard powered. The 22 fits within the towing capabilities of our current SUV at an all up towing weight of less than 5,000 lbs. The 25 has more room, pressurized water, heater, marine toilet and shower, but requires a 3/4 ton pickup or big SUV to tow. So I will probably live with the porta potty and solar showers on the 22.

I looked at other trailerables, the Rosborough RF246,the Ranger Tug 25 and the Acadia 25 downeaster. All on the used market are diesels and are considerably heavier than the C-Dory 25. It would take a 1 ton truck to haul any of these.

David
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The rules of towing maybe different with an suv, but a 3/4 ton pickup with a class 3 hitch can do 10,000 pounds. I know as I have one and have far exceeded that. Also used to run a charter operation towing a 25' boat with a dozen scuba tanks using a standard bed Toyota 4wd with the 4 cylinder engine. That was a bit of under tow, but it worked. While you may be limited to the suv, towing one of the larger boats around the relatively flat state of FL with a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup would be very doable.

Ted
 
David,

I think that sounds like a great idea. I’m toying with the idea of getting a trailerable boat with a cabin for cruising around, fast trips to the Bahamas when I don’t want to use the big boat. If I move to FL, that is.

The C-dory seems like a good choice IMO for the combination of decent amount of room coupled with OK speed, and light enough to trailer fairly easily.
 
The CD 25 weighs 7-8,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer, gear and half fuel. That is the high end of what I would tow with an F150, type pickup which I consider a 3/4 ton. The Rosboroughs, etc probably hit 9,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer and I would want a solid F250 to tow that much weight.

Tow ratings for pickups have responded to a competitive war over the last 10-20 years. It used to be that an F150 would be rated up to 8,000 lbs but now I see 11,000 lbs on properly spec'd F150s. I like the heavier frame and suspension of the F250s when you get close to or over 10,000 lbs.

David
 
cardude01 said:
Just saw this boat on an episode of Sailing La vagabond when they were in Malta. Looks like a Sea Ray type boat?
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I saw a few of cruiser style boats with outboards in Valletta.

Many of the boats I saw in Malta were made in the UK. Which makes sense as Malta was a British colony and many of the retirees are British.
 
djmarchand said:
The CD 25 weighs 7-8,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer, gear and half fuel. That is the high end of what I would tow with an F150, type pickup which I consider a 3/4 ton. The Rosboroughs, etc probably hit 9,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer and I would want a solid F250 to tow that much weight.

Tow ratings for pickups have responded to a competitive war over the last 10-20 years. It used to be that an F150 would be rated up to 8,000 lbs but now I see 11,000 lbs on properly spec'd F150s. I like the heavier frame and suspension of the F250s when you get close to or over 10,000 lbs.

David
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I am also following your idea of downsizing and staying towable when we end up with a permanent spot on the Florida coast - I like your idea of the C-dory 25 , thanks for that idea.
The recent F150 and Chevy 1500 that I have can be rated for over 10,000 with the proper options they are 1/2 ton trucks.
The 3/4 ton upgrades in each of these categories can reach 150% of those ratings with either gas or diesel engines.
In many ways the full 1 ton trucks share almost all the components with the 3/4 ton versions save for the actual suspension springs and ratings.
 
djmarchand said:
The CD 25 weighs 7-8,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer, gear and half fuel. That is the high end of what I would tow with an F150, type pickup which I consider a 3/4 ton. The Rosboroughs, etc probably hit 9,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer and I would want a solid F250 to tow that much weight.

Tow ratings for pickups have responded to a competitive war over the last 10-20 years. It used to be that an F150 would be rated up to 8,000 lbs but now I see 11,000 lbs on properly spec'd F150s. I like the heavier frame and suspension of the F250s when you get close to or over 10,000 lbs.

David
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Maybe Ford does it differently, but I believe 2500 or 250 is 3/4 ton class. 3500 or 350 is the 1 ton class.

My 2002 Dodge 2500 2wd quad cab with the Cummins diesel has a max trailer weight of 13,800 pounds, although the legal limit for a class 3 hitch is probably only 10,000 pounds. Believe you need a 5th wheel hitch for over 10,000 pounds on a pickup.

Ted
 
djmarchand said:
The CD 25 weighs 7-8,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer, gear and half fuel. That is the high end of what I would tow with an F150, type pickup which I consider a 3/4 ton. The Rosboroughs, etc probably hit 9,000 lbs with an aluminum trailer and I would want a solid F250 to tow that much weight.

Tow ratings for pickups have responded to a competitive war over the last 10-20 years. It used to be that an F150 would be rated up to 8,000 lbs but now I see 11,000 lbs on properly spec'd F150s. I like the heavier frame and suspension of the F250s when you get close to or over 10,000 lbs.

David
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I'll chime in since I just went through this whole exercise....
Last spring I sold my sailboat as I wanted a trailerable boat so that I could tow my boat and explore new cruising areas. I'm experienced at towing cargo trailers and I already have a 3/4 ton truck though its a 2006 gas model and rated to tow 9900lbs.

I ended up buying a Rosborough with the hull extension option and twin Yamaha 150's, this came with a nice fairly recent model triple axle galvanized trailer with electric over hydraulic brakes. I bought the boat on the west coast and hired a transporter to tow it to eastern Lake Ontario on its own trailer where I live. Trucker had a 2016 Dodge 3500 diesel dually, he said it towed beautifully.

Fast forward to launch day...I pinned it up to my truck and my first reaction was that it felt quite heavy. I then filled the water tank (40 gallons) and then proceeded to town to fill the fuel tank (120 gallons). I drove about 25 miles away to the launch ramp doing about 45 miles/hour. When I got to hills my truck would downshift and I couldn't maintain the same speed, I then realized that unless I buy a diesel truck there's no way I'll get on any freeway with this current setup.

On the Rosborough owners forum there was another owner with the same trailer and twin 150's, he had recently bought a new diesel truck and decided to get his rig weighed. With his tanks full and his cruising gear on board the boat and trailer together came in at 11800 lbs.

I'm happy with my boat after having done the summer season (900 miles) but I'll have to stay in my home waters unless I dig deep (again) and buy a diesel truck.

In my opinion if you sell your Pilot 34 and buy another boat, trailer and 3/4 ton truck you'll end up spending more than you'll get selling your current boat.
 
Yes, your experience is why I have rejected the bigger and heavier Rosboroughs, Ranger Tug 25s, etc. I am surprised the loaded for bear weight was almost 12,000 lbs for the Rosborough. I knew it might be over 10,000 lbs.

The CD 22 which is the one I am interested has a listed dry (and unpowered) weight of 1,925 lbs compared to the Rosborough's 5,000. C-brats' advice is that the loaded weight including an aluminum trailer for the 22 is almost 5,000 lbs. My Nissan Pathfinder has a tow rating of 6,000 lbs and I have routinely towed a 4,000 lb camper with it, so I pretty well know what to expect.

I agree with your last paragraph if I were to buy any of the 25' trailerable models. That is why I am focusing on the C-Dory 22 which I can buy a ten year old model for less than $30K and tow with our existing SUV . The only thing I am not really looking forward to is emptying the porta potty ;-).

David
 
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When towing, one needs to remember payload capacity of the tow vehicle as well. Tow capacity includes all the crap that one puts into the tow vehicle as well as the tongue weight of the trailer (with load). Many times one runs out of payload capacity before they max out the towing capacity. Also, don't rely on the sales brochures for towing and payload capacity. Most manufacturers have charts available on-line, for various makes (1/2, 3/4, 1 ton), styles (regular, club, crew cab), engine/tranny combinations, and other options. The definitive numbers, of course, are those on the door tag on any specific vehicle.

Jim
 
I find that the boat builders aren't very accurate on the boat weights either, my sailboat was supposed to be 8775 lbs; with 30 gallons of water, 20 gallons of fuel and an anchor and chain on board at haul out the crane operator told me 10400 lbs.


The old Canadian Rosborough site specified dry weight of 5500 lbs for the RF-246 but I'm assuming that was without engines.


The current Rosborough USA site specifies 7500 lbs with standard power of 1 Yamaha 150 outboard....probably more accurate than the older Canadian specs.
 
Shrew said:
Notice that none of them are over 26-27 ft. I never said big, spacious or comfortable.
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I’m just calling into question “stout”.
Light boats just aren’t stout.

The boats in question are strong enough to their mission but hardly stout. Think of a Fisher and some of them were quite small. I think of a Fisher as stout. Do you see a SeaRay as stout?
 
David,
Don’t builders like SeaRay and Bayliner make 22-24’ OB cruisers? Who else makes them? Must be many.

Why are you thinking about boats pretending to be trawlers. I recomend you look for and buy a cruiser. There’s one boat at 4000lbs that actually could be called a trawler ... the old Albin 25. And they are actually an inbd diesel.
 
I'm sure I'll get blasted for this but......

I'd say go for the 25 footer. The greater size and amenities will make the adjustment from your 34 footer a little easier, and no one has ever regretted having more boat when they are in it.

I think exceeding tow capacity of your SUV can be done safely. Remember that tow rating applies to people towing in Arizona when its 110 degrees and people in Denver who are a mile high and always going up or down a hill.

The ride to your ramp from your condo will probably be short, flat and not involve highway driving. Drive conservatively, don't speed or tailgate and you'll be fine. To me it makes sense to be a little uncomfortable on the 20 minute ride to the ramp and more comfortable on the 8 hour day on the water rather than the other way around. And, if you want to do a long tow once in a while, you can rent a truck from Uhaul or Enterprise.

I used to tow a 3000 lb trailer without trailer brakes on a little SUV with a tow capacity of 1500 lbs. Other than needing a lot of space to pull onto the highway, I never had any trouble.
 
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Nomad Willy said:
David,
Why are you thinking about boats pretending to be trawlers. I recomend you look for and buy a cruiser. There’s one boat at 4000lbs that actually could be called a trawler ... the old Albin 25. And they are actually an inbd diesel.
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Hmm!! An Albin 25 is a trawler but a Rosborough, Ranger Tug, Acadia, C-Dory is not?

One of the two Albin 25s listed for sale on Yachtworld in the US indicates its dry weight is 3,500 lbs. The C-Dory 25 is listed at about 3,100 and with a 150 hp O/B brings it to the same weight. That puts the Albin beyond the towing capacity of my Pathfinder.

That is why I am thinking about boats pretending to be trawlers. The C-Dory 22 has the best performance and creature comforts of any boat that weighs less than 5,000 lbs sitting on a trailer with gear and fuel that I have seen.

I am not willing to push the towing specs of my SUV particularly since I plan to pull the boat I get a couple of hundred miles to the Keys. That is the beauty of the concept: decent performance, nice accomodations, towable long distance so I can hang out in nice places.

Sure Searay and Bayliner make boats in the 22-25' range that have the same weight. But do they have the same creature comforts? And I absolutely detest the Searay style, less so for the Bayliner.

David
 
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I just listed my Rosborough RF246 for sale in the classified section of this forum.
It is in Jacksonville. Delivery available.
 
David,
The Rosborough, Ranger and SeaDory are not trawlers. Don’t know of the Acadia. If you take the trawler style cabin away what in their essence is like a trawler? But the most important thing is that they are light. Trawlers are not light.

Trawlers actually started in the 50’s and perhaps before and were called heavy cruisers. Should still be called heavy cruisers but the cutesy name of big fishboats caught on and stuck. Ask Marin haha.

I mostly consider the Albin a trawler because they are FD. But they are really too light.

Re comfort in/on a SeaDory I can’t see it underway. Head room is probably a bit short too. I’ve only been aboard one once however but I think we were rather packed in on the way to a party.
 
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Nomad Willy said:
David,
The Rosborough, Ranger and SeaDory are not trawlers. Don’t know of the Acadia. If you take the trawler style cabin away what in their essence is like a trawler? But the most important thing is that they are light. Trawlers are not light.

Trawlers actually started in the 50’s and perhaps before and were called heavy cruisers. Should still be called heavy cruisers but the cutesy name of big fishboats caught on and stuck. Ask Marin haha.

I mostly consider the Albin a trawler because they are FD. But they are really too light.

Re comfort in/on a SeaDory I can’t see it underway. Head room is probably a bit short too. I’ve only been aboard one once however but I think we were rather packed in on the way to a party.
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A C Dory is a trawler IF it's being used in that fashion. Nomad: Why are you so hung up on defining what is and what is not a trawler?? So much hate out there. I love how someone can only be onboard a boat one time and think they know more about them then the guys who run them year after year. AND put on more miles than some of the folks over here. Are C Dory's for everyone? No. That's why I sold mine. But I do know that there are many folks who cruise these boats for long distances.....
 
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South of Heaven said:
A C Dory is a trawler IF it's being used in that fashion. Nomad: Why are you so hung up on defining what is and what is not a trawler?? So much hate out there. I love how someone can only be onboard a boat one time and think they know more about them then the guys who run them year after year. AND put on more miles than some of the folks over here. Are C Dory's for everyone? No. That's why I sold mine. But I do know that there are many folks who cruise these boats for long distances.....
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I agree!. Erics assessment may be technically correct (or not) but these rigs Are being used as trawler/cruisers. The fact that owners can spend the night on them in a campground is very cool. Opens up many possibilities not thought of before...
 
I’m not talking about people, lifestyles or anything similar.
Just the boats. A boat dosn’t become something else because someone is using it in a way it was not designed for.

And I keep posting my opinions because people keep posting argumentive stuff back. But if someone was to post that I’ve made my point years ago the’d be right. So I’ll back off a lot. How’s that?
 
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