Now I see why liveaboards get a bad rep

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Two comments.

First, I blame the marina management if there are tenants not living up to reasonable standards just as I'd blame the management of an apartment complex. The choice is going elsewhere if management doesn't do better.

Second, one thing I didn't see mentioned and it's by far my greatest fear with derelict liveaboards. That is the danger of fire. I don't know if the docks in the marina mentioned are concrete or wood or what else is there. However, boats poorly maintained, lack of management, increases the risk of a marina fire greatly and that is something I find unacceptable as a potential tenant.
 
Like many facets of life, government run and maybe some corporate marinas may have had issues in the past or learned from others that things like "appearance", even some "safety concerns" are more in the eye of the beholder.

Just look at the disagreements over ABYC best practices and surveyor interpretations.

Take some issues to court and lose becomes expensive ways to learn what courts think.

Sure you can have a long list of regulations....but in my experience.....many are ignored by management because of all the effort and cost involved. Some comply with all the rules because its easy. Some don't because they just aren't the type to follow many of the rules. Some do some rules but not others.

So the rule list works to a point...but unless a private club or small privately owned marina, management chooses to not fight too many battles because of the time, energy or cost involved.....as winding up in court happens more than one thinks. Look at the derelict at anchor that fight and win more than one thinks.
 
Will say, at least in the eastern Caribbean, petty and dinghy theft is as much do to other boaters as locals.
Low flyers are dirt balls regardless of where they lay their heads at night. But would also say there’s really four groups.
Diligent, ethical good people on a low budget.
Low flyers
Folks with deeper pockets but law abiding ethical people respectful of others.
Rich arrogant ass holes with no respect for other peoples property, safety or space.
 
Alaskaflyer said:
Hey Kintala, what is “aviation standard”? Now, I spent a lot of time in Alaska whilst flying, obviously, and so my calibration might be different than yours, but up there I wouldn’t see aviation standards as a shining example of anything other than a much longer list of rigorous regulations to skirt and skimp :rofl:

Just kidding of course. My wife would wish I spent the time on the house that I did cleaning and maintaining the boat. Or the (former) airplanes for that matter.

PS I second the comment on RTF. He’s very helpful when not joking :socool:
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Yes, there are clearly both aviation standards and there's boating standards.... just like there's standards for the operators of the same, pilots and mechanics alike.



There's only one MAJOR difference. Many of the aviation standards are required as are the logbooks and documentation to prove it. Most of the boating standards are optional, including the requirements for the operators and mechanics. And in the aviation department, inspections and recurrency requirements are not optional.



But, you can have both good and bad planes OR boats.



I don't maintain my boat to aviation standards, I maintain it boating standards and there's just few places for AN bolts and safety wire on on a boat (however, useful non the less, at times).



I could argue the main thing is to maintain you toys so they are SAFE.



Getting back to live aboards and their bad rep, I can certainly understand that......








ATP, A&P and AI
 
catalinajack said:
A rule requiring boat to be away from the dock a few hours EACH month? Wholly impractical for most boaters. Just think about how many folks are not resident close to their boats. They keep their boats stored in the water and, in the winter months, winterized, yes, for months at a time. So, you would have these folks to commission their boats each month?! And, then re-winterize? Once a month?? I think sir, you did not think this through very well.
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Obviously forcing people to move a winterized boat doesn't make sense. But the very act of winterizing or hauling out shows active use of the boat. I'm not sure where the winterization line is, maybe somewhere around Norfolk, VA on the east coast, and Portland on the west coast ?? That leaves A LOT of boaters that don't have to winterize, and I'm assuming the "liveaboard" problem is more substantial in the warmer climes.

Thanks for disregarding the general intent of my message and dissecting it down to the minutae so you could point out the error of my ways.
 
The illusion of a low cost dwelling

JLD said:
Going back to the original post, maybe the issue is more the fault of the marina, than the boaters. :ermm:

A lot of the marina rules I have read say something like - Vessels are to be maintained in good mechanical and aesthetic condition at all times.

Jim
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IMHO, there is a disconnect in the concept of live aboard. It is believed to be more economical to live in a boat by not having to pay real estate's property tax and occasionally avoid rent by using the hook.
The truth is that boating is expensive due to poor quality of materials and designs of boats that must endure a more unforgiving environment than the typical residential home on the ground.

Many find out this miscalculation of costs and find themselves stuck with an assets with rapidly declining value. Thr result is clear: abandonment.

Before going on with a boating scheme, first multiply by three the estimated cost. Then, evaluate the cost-benefit to decide. Most probably you will end up downsizing your dream and will be much happier in the end.


Rolo
 
It depends, I think I came out way ahead on all 3 times I lived aboard.
 
rolomart3 said:
IMHO, there is a disconnect in the concept of live aboard. It is believed to be more economical to live in a boat by not having to pay real estate's property tax and occasionally avoid rent by using the hook.
The truth is that boating is expensive due to poor quality of materials and designs of boats that must endure a more unforgiving environment than the typical residential home on the ground.

Many find out this miscalculation of costs and find themselves stuck with an assets with rapidly declining value. Thr result is clear: abandonment.

Before going on with a boating scheme, first multiply by three the estimated cost. Then, evaluate the cost-benefit to decide. Most probably you will end up downsizing your dream and will be much happier in the end.


Rolo
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If you don't boat, then living aboard a derelict boat in a marina can be far cheaper than an apartment in some locales. Now if you boat, that pushes the costs up.
 
There are marinas here that require a boat leave its slip 4 times a year under its own power, must verify by calling the harbormaster as you leave. I don't think that is unreasonable for most owners. They want to keep the marina for people who actually use boats.
 
Even using your boat regularly it can be cheaper than apartments in some locales.


But if you are talking about living slightly above being homeless, but with a deck overhead to keep you out of the weather.... it can be very cheap...usually not at a marina. I am not sure that level of living is what many that ask here are looking for.


In my experience, boats left to ruin at average/decent marinas are often not being lived on...there are other reasons for lack of visitation by those that continue to pay the slip fee.
 
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You are welcome. Dissecting? I merely pointed out that what you suggested is pretty much impractical. I guess you are are sensitive to any sort of shade being sent your way. What about the guy who lives and works 200 miles away, keeps his boat in tip top shape and doesn't have vacation time to drive to his boat, fire it up for a few hours and go home, every month. What you suggested was, in fact, ridiculous and I tried pointing it out in a polite way.

Another poster noted a marina that requires four times per year. Now, that seems to be more within reason.
Benthic2 said:
Obviously forcing people to move a winterized boat doesn't make sense. But the very act of winterizing or hauling out shows active use of the boat. I'm not sure where the winterization line is, maybe somewhere around Norfolk, VA on the east coast, and Portland on the west coast ?? That leaves A LOT of boaters that don't have to winterize, and I'm assuming the "liveaboard" problem is more substantial in the warmer climes.

Thanks for disregarding the general intent of my message and dissecting it down to the minutae so you could point out the error of my ways.
Click to expand...
 
catalinajack said:
You are welcome. Dissecting? I merely pointed out that what you suggested is pretty much impractical. I guess you are are sensitive to any sort of shade being sent your way. What about the guy who lives and works 200 miles away, keeps his boat in tip top shape and doesn't have vacation time to drive to his boat, fire it up for a few hours and go home, every month. What you suggested was, in fact, ridiculous and I tried pointing it out in a polite way.

Another poster noted a marina that requires four times per year. Now, that seems to be more within reason.
Click to expand...

Other marinas simply require it be maintained in running condition and set a limit on time not in such condition and circumstances, but don't allow boats to be kept that aren't operable.

There are good live aboard tenants and bad just as with other tenant, but I see a responsibility falling to the marina to maintain quality. That includes a marina that is pleasant and conducive to enjoyment, one that is free from problems and conflict, and one that is safe.
 
BandB said:
If you don't boat, then living aboard a derelict boat in a marina can be far cheaper than an apartment in some locales.

Now if you boat, that pushes the costs up.
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Yep, but if you don't live in a marina prices drop again.

In this part of the world we'd be looking at $2100/mth as a liveaboad to berth ours.
That's $25200 a year which I'd rather spend on maintenance, fuel and actual cruising and that number, is pretty close to what it does actually cost us / year.

Renting a comparable comfort level apartment with water views would cost $29000 a year
 
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Simi 60 said:
Yep, but if you don't live in a marina prices drop again.

In this part of the world we'd be looking at $2100/mth as a liveaboad to berth ours.
That's $25200 a year which I'd rather spend on maintenance, fuel and actual cruising and that number, is pretty close to what it does actually cost us / year.

Renting a comparable comfort level apartment with water views would cost $29000 a year
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Shows the variance in costs too. While the prices you quote are not far from what they'd be in SE FL, there are areas in the US where your boat could be berthed for $500 a month and where comparable apartments could be found for $10,000-12,000 a year. Then some other countries, even less. Also, living aboard while anchoring as you do requires a nice boat in good operating condition and many liveaboards don't have that.
 
Living is such a subjective word. I find most people in the world only exist, few are actually living but everyone’s definition is different.
 
This marina did not permit live aboards. They had a rule we had to be off the boat for at least 3-4 hours off the boat each week. I would go food shopping and parts buying. That took more than 3-4 hours.

Based upon the management experience with live aboards, they have looked the other way. The latest copy of condo rule do not address live aboard. It does say, no laundry hanging.

Per not paying property tax? I own 2 slips and yes, property taxes plus monthly condo fees on 2 slips. Lemme tell you, that aint cheap.

I was informed, I could not own more than 3 slips. LOL I guess they dont want me to establish a marina inside this marina.
There are only 100 slips in this marina. Wanna buy a slip? You will be looking middle 6 figures for a 75ft slip. 50ft slip, low 6 figures.
 
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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. L. I know what you mean about sailboats. Caves inside and stinky engines (seldom serviced). Ugly stick thingy stuck up to middle with way too many strings attached. Why can't they get proper motor boats? Disgusting. They have to keep ugly gas cans on deck, even. I hope I never have to talk to a sailor.
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ROFLMAO! Well said...

...and blowboaters are the cheapest at the restaurant/bar/fuel dock/marina/chandlery!
 
I have never docked near anyone who has the same taste in music as I do.
Their loud music and outside speakers can ruin an anchorage or a dock.
Keep your music inside the boat please.
 
Playing loud music is anti-nautical. Bells and horns are nautical.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. mp. "Bells and horns are nautical." So are cannons...
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Got it. 10-gauge blackpowder cannon. Tends to shock/scare people. Am holding back.
 
markpierce said:
Got it. 10-gauge blackpowder cannon. Tends to shock/scare people. Am holding back.
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If I duct tape my 12ga pump to the rail and remove the shot from the shells, does it qualify a starting canon?
 
OldDan1943 said:
If I duct tape my 12ga pump to the rail and remove the shot from the shells, does it qualify a starting canon?
Click to expand...

No, no smoke. Need auditory and visual signal. Visual is more precise.
 
The 10G saluting cannon with Black powder is about 2 or 3x as loud as a 12G shotgun load.

https://www.thecannonstore.com/category/winchester-cannons

We are now in CT so if anyone wants a 10G Winchester Naval Edition in std. pine wooden shipping box ,with some rounds, PM me . Pick up only Middletown 06457, Cash only $1,000 .

Not new , but not out of stock , so if you need it ,"first in time , first in line".

These are not considered fire arms , check on Google , so even in a blue state , should be legal to own & use. July 4th is coming!
 
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I have the Winchester 98 Signal Cannon in brass. I keep it at the house.
My brother has one, took it to his boat, set it on a towel, secured the canon..... first shot, set the rag on fire. LOL
 
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