Not an FPB...

[klee wyck]

....but some of the same rationale.

From MVWeebles in the on going FPB thread:

"FPB is an amazing design. $1.5m - $2.0m is a lot of money. But there's a solid market for yachts in that price range. They are perhaps a slight premium over a comparable Nordhavn for example. A much different boat.

Crossing an ocean at a solid 12 kts - almost 300 nm days - is incredible."

Admittedly, I have a pretty bad boat jones, but not that kind of boat jones. Still, the idea of a faster, highly efficient, ocean capable cruise is what caught my eye with my new ride. (also, and to no small degree, value)
Every boat is a compromise and the other boat on my wish list at the time of this purchase was a 68x14 aluminum ocean cruiser. In the end, what put me off that one and onto the powercat was the 'not at cruise' platform that it represents. Even as a world cruiser for the last ten years with 53000 nm, 45 countries, and three crossings, it will still be true that during those 10 years that 94% of the time the boat is not in motion. The monohull at 14 beam had much less space above the water, less access to the water and around 50% of its interior volume dedicated to sleeping area. Way too little outdoor hangout space. Seemed absurd when I thought about that for mostly a cruising couple that really enjoys watersports and hanging out on deck.
The cat solved that and still offered an incredible range and designed, as the FPB, for comfortable uphill travel which I hope we will benefit from in travelling between the PNW and Sea of Cortez seasonally.
High prismatic coefficient hull and good behavior beating to weather is what Malcom Tennant, the designer, was targeting, and like Dashew, did a good share of his work on sailing vessels. I think the result in this design is a hybrid between something like Beowulf and the FPB.
The entry forward is very fine (see photo) for slicing into head seas but then plenty of reserve buoyancy as you get above the waterline. The helmsman sits at the metacenter. Lots of rudder and twin propulsion spaced far apart should make downhill control pretty effective as well. Twin Simrad AP will help with that.
Her cruising groove is around 11kn and she burns just over 5 gph at that speed. I have seen video of her making 17kn into a 20kn wind on her nose and the ride appears to be quite comfortable. The top end of her recent sea trial was 24.5kn!
The tunnel design under the bridge deck is to prevent the slap in flatter designs and to create a pressurized air cushion as the vessel descends after topping a sea. The hulls have a canoe form aft. In a video of 12kn cruise, this combination resulted in zero bow wave and real flat and quiet behind her.
Given the strange times we live in, I had to make this leap remotely. Thus, there is a real chance I will be disappointed but given how much I have studied this, I don't expect that will be the case.
Quite the leap it is for sure. Her FRP build took me awhile to consider given what I currently drive and I have no experience with the motion in a multihull in this size range. But, given 65+ feet of boat travelling at these speeds and still over 2nmpg is something I needed to try.
Time will tell. I am excited to try and will get a pretty good chance on her 2200 nm trip home!

 

[rslifkin]

Now that is a cool looking boat! Not the brutally salty look of Libra, but it's definitely got presence.

 

[mvweebles]

Klee Wyck: question for you. Domino has been on the market for a few years. With exception of being a single head boat, she appears to be a helluva passagemaker. Great pedigree. The last asking price I saw for her was a bargain. Why did it take so long for her to find a home? Thar she was in Mexico? Single head? Other?

You've got great taste in boats. Quantity and quality.

 

[hollywood8118]

I have seen your new ride around for some time, looks like a great boat and a multi cannot be beat for comfort at anchor. The motion can take a bit to get used to on a multi under sail, but I found the multi under power doesn't depower like they do under sail and the motion is not as abrupt. We all look forward to a report when you pick her up and head north.
congratulations
HOLLYWOOD

 

[klee wyck]

Klee Wyck: question for you. Domino has been on the market for a few years. With exception of being a single head boat, she appears to be a helluva passagemaker. Great pedigree. The last asking price I saw for her was a bargain. Why did it take so long for her to find a home? Thar she was in Mexico? Single head? Other?

You've got great taste in boats. Quantity and quality.

Great question and one that certainly slowed me down. I think there are several aspects that make this vessel hard to sell.
One head
No washer/dry went she went on the market, just ringer, now cured, and big deal, right?
One off design which always paralyzes most folks
Built in Paraguay
Cored all the way.
Multihull
multihull
multihull
It is easy to find skeptics of multihull since so few folks have considerable sea time on them, especially on this coast. Time after time when speaking to folks in my orbit, I just got puzzled looks which I read as an unspoken suggestion that Bill had finally lost it. Most of the folks that have spent serious time on multihulls are in the Southern hemisphere and not on my continent, but I found a few. The captain that will help me move her up here has spent serious time in the Gulf of Alaska on a well found one in this size range and he was blown away by both this vessel and her listing price.
To get over some of the other stuff you just have to choose to believe in JP, her original owner and someone who has given this project 21 years of his life thru design, build, and significant cruise time. He is a wonderful and serious person and I have gotten to know him reasonably well. Well enough to abandon reservation and make this leap. I am going with JP and comfortable with that. His reasoning has seemed very sound in all aspects. His care of this vessel is beyond reproach. He and his bride of 50 years are on the 5th iteration of a manual that they are providing for me complete with high res photos and video. I have never been treated to this level of detail from a prior owner. It is their baby and they call this 'walking her down the aisle'. AS you can tell, I admire them as much as this vessel and they have made this remote process more comforting than any I have done in person.
Good thing too, since the surveyor was a bozo.
I is my belief that I am getting one helluva vessel at one helluva price.

 

[FlyWright]

I'll be following your journeys with great interest! When do you plan to pick her up and head north?

 

[darkside]

Congratulations on choosing a vessel with the correct number of hulls. We have shared a few anchorages with Domino when she made it down here a while back. Looking forward to your reports.

 

[klee wyck]

I'll be following your journeys with great interest! When do you plan to pick her up and head north?

We will not travel before getting vaccinated and that is also the view of the captain from Eureka, CA that I have hired. Also, since this is my first stab at the Northbound Pacific coast transit, we are targeting the Summer highs of late June or July. It is yet to be proven that I have that kind of sea legs.

And, just for you, a fresh fish photo from overnight. The sellers who were quite far South in Ixtapa when our purchase was agreed upon, have agreed to deliver her 900 miles North to San Carlos to be stored on the hard for hurricane season as the insurers require. They were underway on the first 350nm leg to PV for the past 32 hours. They slowed to 8 knots for a bit to 'catch the last fish' as JP says. Well they did, and after a 90 minute battle, this specimen lay on the swim step. They are now anchored in greater Banderas Bay awaiting another good window likely around Tuesday.

 

[klee wyck]

Congratulations on choosing a vessel with the correct number of hulls. We have shared a few anchorages with Domino when she made it down here a while back. Looking forward to your reports.

Thanks, Darkside,
Her pedigree is certainly more typical of your geography than mine, but I expect she will adapt to the Eastern Pacific quite well. It is inspiring to me that for this money I can have a vessel that has visited both geographies and in between on her own bottom.
We shall see.

 

[klee wyck]

I have seen your new ride around for some time, looks like a great boat and a multi cannot be beat for comfort at anchor. The motion can take a bit to get used to on a multi under sail, but I found the multi under power doesn't depower like they do under sail and the motion is not as abrupt. We all look forward to a report when you pick her up and head north.
congratulations
HOLLYWOOD

Thanks Hollywood,
I think your description of a delivery you did out the Strait of JDF on a commercial cat may have been one of the things that allowed my mind to open to this. I remember you being impressed and I certainly respect your sea time resume.
She will spend a fair bit of time anchored just below your home and you are welcome aboard any time. I would look forward to that.

 

[Simi 60]

WTF, I was hanging out for Domino, she just needed to drop another $100k. (-;

Congrats, she'll be a great vessel for sure
While she may be a one off design, Malcolm Tennant has considerable runs on the board.

 

[FlyWright]

We will not travel before getting vaccinated and that is also the view of the captain from Eureka, CA that I have hired. Also, since this is my first stab at the Northbound Pacific coast transit, we are targeting the Summer highs of late June or July. It is yet to be proven that I have that kind of sea legs.

And, just for you, a fresh fish photo from overnight. The sellers who were quite far South in Ixtapa when our purchase was agreed upon, have agreed to deliver her 900 miles North to San Carlos to be stored on the hard for hurricane season as the insurers require. They were underway on the first 350nm leg to PV for the past 32 hours. They slowed to 8 knots for a bit to 'catch the last fish' as JP says. Well they did, and after a 90 minute battle, this specimen lay on the swim step. They are now anchored in greater Banderas Bay awaiting another good window likely around Tuesday.

Makes sense to delay. June/July is a GREAT time on the CA Delta.....just sayin'...

No doubt, the crew's arms are tired after 1 1/2 hrs of fight. What a great 'last fish'. Your boat comes with good fishing mojo. I'll be living vicariously by your huge fish photos...no pressure...

 

[Jeff F]

I'm guessing you're not going to regret taking the leap. Beautiful vessel, congratulations.

 

[klee wyck]

Congratulations on choosing a vessel with the correct number of hulls. We have shared a few anchorages with Domino when she made it down here a while back. Looking forward to your reports.

Found this photo of her when she was in your neck of the woods at Bay Of Islands.

 

[darkside]

We saw Domino at Great Barrier, she just looks so right sitting low and purposeful on the water.
However a little story from this summer in the Bay of Islands you might like.
We went out for dinner and got talking boats with our waiter. It turns out that his dad is the designer of our next boat, which is of course a displacement powercat. New Zealand is a small place.

 

[klee wyck]

Here are a few more tidbits from my new nautical bride.
First pic is the helm station. I have always wanted a double helm chair and had shopped in consideration of placing one in one of our current boats.
The comnav is almost all Furuno to include a 6' array and AIS. The exception is the APs with a pair of Simrad.
Engine controls are Glendenning with fixed stations at this helm and on the flybridge, and remote stations at the bow and stern.
Windows are always an important consideration on a sea boat. Of course we want good light and good visibility and of course we do not want water inside when things get ugly. The balance here is lots of windows all around but the front row is pretty protected by a high foredeck and they are not tall. All windows and door glass is Diamond Sea Glaze, some in 13x10mm and some in 7x12, all in aluminum.
The latter two pictures are a strange juxtaposition for me and I will be interested in reconciling that in person.
As Darkside said above, she has this low slung, no nonsense profile when looking at her laying at a distance. Then, apparently when you get close, she does appear to loom large. It will be an interesting introduction to say the least.

 

[GraniteStater]

Thanks so much for sharing Bill. I absolutely love the lines and salty looks of your newest boat! And I've always loved your taste in trawlers so your acquisition of a cat has really gotten me thinking. I've spent a good portion of my sunday morning reading Domino's blog. It makes me wish there were more cat manufacturers in North America. I spent an hour looking at power cats on yachtworld and it looks like you got the hands down best out there!

 

[Hippocampus]

Truly amazing vessel. Shouldn’t burp nor hobbyhorse given design. So will be a great seaboat. Only issue I see is docking in a crosswind off the pier. A whole new set of skills to learn.

 

[rslifkin]

Only issue I see is docking in a crosswind off the pier. A whole new set of skills to learn.

Agreed. But looking at the distribution of windage and the hull pictures, I'd guess it would blow sideways a lot more evenly than many boats, rather than rapidly blowing the bow off or anything like that. So it might be a challenge, but it doesn't look like it would try to get you into any really strange situations.

 

[klee wyck]

Truly amazing vessel. Shouldn’t burp nor hobbyhorse given design. So will be a great seaboat. Only issue I see is docking in a crosswind off the pier. A whole new set of skills to learn.

No experience for sure....but I am guessing that if you had a wind off the dock situation, I would back into the dock stern to and then use the outboard prop to put the bow on the dock with a spring to the stern cleat.

That is at home dock which is an end tie in Blaine. Every where else I expect she will be anchored as slips to fit her will be rare indeed.
12000 liter fuel capacity means for me, likely a fuel dock every couple of years! I will pick a good day.....

 

[Hippocampus]

Friend had a 52’ carbon fiber cat. Very experienced. In just 10-15true of quartering wind couldn’t get to a fuel dock. Was very surprised as he had the boat for 2 years at that point and was full time cruising.
Ended up going elsewhere. An appointment was made at a spot where fuel was on a large T and no one else was allowed to tie up. Passed a stern line via the dinghy. Slack taken in as he approached. As he got close secured. Going forward pulled him in close.
In the islands docks are on leeward side. Trades can be ENE for days. He learned whenever conditions permit get fuel regardless of how full you are.

 

[rslifkin]

No experience for sure....but I am guessing that if you had a wind off the dock situation, I would back into the dock stern to and then use the outboard prop to put the bow on the dock with a spring to the stern cleat.

With twins that have good prop walk and/or big rudders and no bow thruster, my usual method is to plant come in bow first, getting the bow about where you want, then bring the stern in as you come to a stop (outboard engine in reverse, then a quick shot of idle reverse on the inboard to cushion the landing with some prop wash right at the end). I'm more likely to back off than back on, as it's easier to pivot the stern out than the bow with the engines.

I've also found that I worry more about wind blowing me onto the dock than off it. Getting onto a dock against the wind may take an extra try and be a bit quick and sloppy looking. But wind pushing you onto the dock can make for an unavoidable hard landing with just 1 small mistake. And it's also possible to be pinned to the dock where you can't leave, as you just can't get the bow off the dock enough.


Methods will vary a bit depending on how that boat pivots though. My boat pivots pretty far forward and the bow blows off badly, so with no thruster, it's best to just avoid needing to move the bow sideways as much as possible.

When coming on to a side tie in calmer conditions, I've also been known to sometimes do a 180 onto the dock, rather than a straight in approach. It's tough in the wind, as you have to do it fairly slowly, but you can build some sideways momentum in the boat this way and pretty much just slide it in sideways. The key is not to do it too quickly, as you have limited ability to reduce sideways momentum, so going too fast will lead to a rather firm arrival against the fenders.

Personally, I've got a habit of treating twins pretty much like 2 singles tied together, where unless I need to actually spin the boat, I often only have 1 in gear at a time for docking. That way I'm using the sideways prop walk to my advantage, rather than just "forward, reverse, spin". I see a lot of people getting in the bad habit of always using both engines (so it's either both forward, both reverse, or 1 fwd, 1 rev, but never 1 just in neutral). I also tend to leave the rudders centered when maneuvering with the engines unless I need a really tight spin or there's a lot of wind and I need to use the rudders to help snap the bow around through the wind.


You'll have to experiment with pinning the boat to the dock with a spring line, as the method will vary a bit. On my boat, the spring cleats are a little too far forward, so straight forward thrust will yank the bow into the dock. I usually go with idle forward on the dock side engine, reverse on the other. I could use the rudders, but forward thrust is stronger than reverse, so this has the same effect of pulling the stern in and keeping tension on the line, but without as much force on the line. Plus it means I don't have to remember to re-center the rudders before departure.



That boat looks to have good size props, plenty of rudder, and no tunnels or anything to restrict prop walk. Plus the props are widely spaced. So once you get the hang of it, it looks like it should maneuver very well.

 

[klee wyck]

Friend had a 52’ carbon fiber cat. Very experienced. In just 10-15true of quartering wind couldn’t get to a fuel dock. Was very surprised as he had the boat for 2 years at that point and was full time cruising.
Ended up going elsewhere. An appointment was made at a spot where fuel was on a large T and no one else was allowed to tie up. Passed a stern line via the dinghy. Slack taken in as he approached. As he got close secured. Going forward pulled him in close.
In the islands docks are on leeward side. Trades can be ENE for days. He learned whenever conditions permit get fuel regardless of how full you are.

I am in no position to be confident, so I am not. I am sure there will be an adjustment period.
A little adrenaline rush once in awhile is part of why we all do this I am sure. I went from 21' to a 48' single ten years ago and then went from 27 tons to 65 tons about 5 years ago. Plenty of adrenaline, but think I have learned this: a good designer that has himself spent much time on the water will provide you with a boat that in the end can be driven effectively with a little thought and care.
Boats that I have seen struggle with close quarter maneuvering in wind share some common attributes. They are relatively flat bottomed, have high profiles, and low weight to volume. This vessel sits on 130' of strait rail with a relatively low profile to her length.
I am looking forward to learning some new tricks and will work hard to not put myself in situations that I cannot handle while traveling with momentum that is neither lethal nor destructive. Time will tell. I expect I will provide some entertainment for bystanders from time to time but have lived through that before. Those other times when you stick it make that worth it.

 

[mvweebles]

If you're even just reasonably comfortable with your Lowland and the boat on your profile picture ic, you'll have no issues. Domino is a pretty big boat by West Coast standards so you may have some adjustments there. But she looks like a great boat.

I am surprised it took so long to find a good home for Domino. I've come to the conclusion that there just are not many people who are into both powerboats and distance cruising. I guess Passagemaker Magazine figured that out years ago when boats throwing wakes started gracing their front cover

Peter

 

[klee wyck]

If you're even just reasonably comfortable with your Lowland and the boat on your profile picture ic, you'll have no issues. Domino is a pretty big boat by West Coast standards so you may have some adjustments there. But she looks like a great boat.

Peter

I am afraid I am spoiled by the two monohulls as they are quite easy to drive. That does not mean that I don't screw that up on occasion with poor or no planning, but not the fault of the vessel.
They both have good prop walk so even without thrusters they would be manageable in most cases and I like to drive them that way. The hydraulic thrusters have big power in addition. I think the one on Libra could get her bow to climb the dock.
Another advantage they have is that they really want to stay where you put them. While it is somewhat possible to move Klee Wyck with a line on a cleat, Libra is so heavy that that is not really reasonable for Laurie or most dockhands that I have seen. Almost funny to watch a dock hand grab a line and go to pull the boat in before I am finished. Priceless look on their face when she does not budge.
The fishtail rudder and prop walk on Libra make it possible to drive her sideways to port. I have pulled into a slot 30' off the dock and then walked her in perpendicular to her axis.
Though everyone says that these twins far apart on Domino should make her a dream to handle in close quarters, I do not expect that to be easier than the singles I now own. They have become pretty intuitive and this twins thing will be new for me.

 

[darkside]

Nothing like having your props 20 feet apart to aid maneuvering.
However very few more comfortable boats at anchor than a large cat so why tie up?

 

[Simi 60]

Nothing like having your props 20 feet apart to aid maneuvering.
However very few more comfortable boats at anchor than a large cat so why tie up?

Exactly
I hope she spends all her time "out here" doing as she was intended.

 

[klee wyck]

Exactly
I hope she spends all her time "out here" doing as she was intended.

Yes, I expect she will spend most of her time anchored or moored. The sellers were quite militant about this. When setting up the survey, the surveyor of course wanted to see a cold start so wanted to meet them at a dock in the morning. JP would have no part of a dock overnight so they said they would take the tender in to pick up the surveyor and then do sea trial on the way to the haulout. They state that they have dropped anchor over 800 times in ten years and I expect that most of these involved several days if not weeks in exotic locations. Not much time left for being tied up for sure.

JP could never find a commercially available tender to suit him so he built one many years ago that will come with the vessel.

Below, see Domini, t/t Domino. She is a surf launching, freight carrying and keep dry looking beast of a tender. He is pretty sure we will like it.

 

[Simi 60]

.

Below, see Domini, t/t Domino. She is a surf launching, freight carrying and keep dry looking beast of a tender. He is pretty sure we will like it.

More here


DOMINO 20: Tender Do-mini


Surprised he had difficulty, a 3 metre tinny with a Kapten collar would have ticked the boxes I would have thought.

Add: Reading the above blog there are a couple of extras an off the shelf tinny with collar would not have.
https://boatcollar.com.au/

 

[rslifkin]

When it comes to learning the twins, just think of it as a pair of singles tied together with opposite prop walk. So you get effects like this: port fwd turns to stbd, but walks the stern to port. Stbd fwd is the opposite. And like with a single, reverse while moving forward will slide the stern sideways and turn the boat.