North West Passage

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He completed the passage going west to east and sailed off towards Europe, it seems.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/could-k...transit-break-legal-ice-between-canada-and-us

My mistake Jeff! I thought he was attempting East to West, but backed off due to pressure from the authorities, and was not aware of the other article.

If he has any brains, and various back stories on the guy have some interesting commentary on that, he will not try to make a legit entry to Canada anytime soon!
 
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The US, Russia, China, forcstarters, do NOT recognize Canadas claims. They consider it international waters.

It doesn't matter what the US, Russia and China think because it will be Canadian Authorities that you are dealing with. If you plan on trying to convince the Canadian Navy that you aren't in Canadian waters I hope you video that conversation.

Also, if you stick around here long enough you will realize the incredible depth of experience of the people here,( and their genuine willingness to share that experience) The fact that no one in a group this experienced has done the NWP would be a warning sign to someone was actually trying to learn something.

In the following article it says more people have stood on the summit of Mt Everest than have sailed through the NW Passage.

https://www.boatinternational.com/d...de-to-navigating-the-northwest-passage--41287
 
It doesn't matter what the US, Russia and China think because it will be Canadian Authorities that you are dealing with. If you plan on trying to convince the Canadian Navy that you aren't in Canadian waters I hope you video that conversation.

Also, if you stick around here long enough you will realize the incredible depth of experience of the people here,( and their genuine willingness to share that experience) The fact that no one in a group this experienced has done the NWP would be a warning sign to someone was actually trying to learn something.

In the following article it says more people have stood on the summit of Mt Everest than have sailed through the NW Passage.

https://www.boatinternational.com/d...de-to-navigating-the-northwest-passage--41287



I asked, nobody is up to date this dont know if that 30-40 permits is correct. And sure it matters since if true , we wont even bother. And that some other countries, including some european ones dont recognize the pretentious Canadian claim, shows that its c9ntroversial, not settled. And of course the canadian coast guard or navy can inforce a shakedown on us private sailors, but not against the USN. For them and the others it IS an international waterway.
 
So none, like everyone hasn't figured that out already. Just a lot of smoke and hot air.

I googled it , and got the 900 mile figure. What did you get? But sure, you could be like the guy with his admitted, imagined route....NORTH of Greenland.
 
True civilization to civilization across the NWP is about 3500 NM.
Shooting a polar bear with a spear gun or flare is laughable
The OP has a writing style and attitude of a 10 yr old
He obviously doesnt know anything about boats
The NWP is through CANADA
If he knew how to read a chart he would know how far it is.

HOLLYWOOD


My thought too.


Also the comment how this thread is useless.... a quick search to see the past threads also revealed almost no info as only the rare member would try it or be interested or have the boat to do it. In fact that only a rare number of smaller recreational boats have done it might even be useful and asking a general forum might be thin on "actual experience" (though a few here do have arctic experience but alas no Northwest Passage time.) Then to think that thread creep shouldn't happen is comical.
 
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My thought too.


Also the comment how this thread is useless.... a quick search to see the past threads also revealed almost no info as only the rare member would try it or be interested or have the boat to do it. In fact that only a rare number of smaller recreational boats have done it might even be useful and asking a general forum might be thin on "actual experience" (though a few here do have arctic experience but alas no Northwest Passage time.) Then to think that thread creep shouldn't happen is comical.

What figure did YOU get when you looked up the length of the nw passage? And i dont mean...NY to Seattle.
 
As far as the USN sailing through...the USCG did not without Canadian permission for many years (may still not as far as I know)...and I guess the USN wouldn't either. Not because they can't, but it is a sticky subject and believe it or not, the two countries occasionally try and get along.
 
Hollywood8118....It seems that somewhere you said it was "laughable" to shoot with flares and spearguns at a bear boarding your boat. That didnt answer my question to the member about what he thinks a bear would do with 4 guys doing that? What do YOU think?
 
As far as the USN sailing through...the USCG did not without Canadian permission for many years (may still not as far as I know)...and I guess the USN wouldn't either. Not because they can't, but it is a sticky subject and believe it or not, the two countries occasionally try and get along.

Maybe Biden and the others will accept canadas claim. BTW, how long do you say the nwp is? I get 900 miles when i look it up?
 
What figure did YOU get when you looked up the length of the nw passage? And i dont mean...NY to Seattle.


I never have as I don't plan on doing it...but I certainly know better than to take a number from Google and use it for voyage/range calculations.



Doesn't that 900 number just arbitrarily stop at the US border? The several references I saw the 900 mile trip length did.


Thus why I use a real chart or at least a mapping program to use myown parameters.
 
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So I did a quick charting (again quick as I don't plan on the voyage) to get a gross distance as a minimum... for a more useful number to me (nearby civilization to the same without stopping in Canada).


Transferred from a nautical to geopolitical as the other was too time consuming and the distance shown is around 1500NM...so a range of 2000NM would be a start but needs lots more research as to where fuel is available , etc.....


I would have never even needed the 900 figure and would have never quoted any distance without a little pencil sharpening (and neither would most serious cruisers I know)
 

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After some other looking at the trip.....I wouldn't even try that trip in an non-icebreaking (icebreaking and ice capable are 2 different things), nonstop capable (Newfoundland to probably Nome, Ak), several month provisioned (or more) vessel without most importantly permission and cooperation from Canada.


One thing I learned in Search and Rescue is people in trouble will darn near sell their souls for help (myself included and it's not necessarily panic) when they are scared. And that is a LOT of dangerous going and the only people coming to help you are probably the Canadians....possibly US after a LOT of diplomatic crap you may not have time for.


While people do it...many are true adventuresome souls and don't dwell on those sorts of things...but I doubt many just disregarded Canada as a backup for at least emergency stops for all kinds of reasons.
 
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I googled it , and got the 900 mile figure. What did you get? But sure, you could be like the guy with his admitted, imagined route....NORTH of Greenland.


I didn't ask you about the route. I asked you about your boating/cruising experience and the only answer you have given is "900 miles". So I guess that's your cruising experience.



So far all you seem to want to do is argue with everyone, and do so for the sake of arguing. We want to talk about boats and boating, and I personally think the NW Passage is a great topic. But I have little interest in arguing with an arm-chair captain who is all mouth and no ears.
 
I googled it , and got the 900 mile figure. What did you get? But sure, you could be like the guy with his admitted, imagined route....NORTH of Greenland.
You started this thread asking about recent NW Passage transits and stated the need for 30 - 40 permits. In your post #6 you were calling the NW Passage international waters and the requirement for permits piracy.

In post #10 I attached two maps. One showing Canada and the other showing typical NW Passage routes through Canada. There is no one right NW passage route. You will need to adjust your route to avoid ice and weather.

You continued to call the NW Passage International Waters so I tried again in post #24 that time showing an approximate route that would keep you in international waters.

Now let me break this down for you.

The islands north of the Canadian continental mainland are the Arctic Archipelago. With the exception of Greenland they are part of Canada. They have been under Canadian Jurisdiction since 1895. To pass through those islands is to pass through Canada.

Further to ignore Canada's boundaries and claim that passages through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago are international waters look to internationally recognized zones of the sea.

The territorial sea recognized by the majority of seafaring nations, including Canada, the US and Russia is from shore out to 12 nautical miles. In the territorial sea a nation has sovereign rights over those waters. When passing between two land masses of a single nation state that are 24 NM or less distant from each other you are in that nation's territorial waters. This alone makes the argument the much of the waters through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago International Waters moot.
Territorial Waters - Wikipedia and The Territorial Sea and Other Maritime Zones

Next are the Contiguous and Exclusive Economic Zones where nation states have less authority. See the links above.

Further is the need to study the Canada Oceans Act where Canada defines her territorial, contiguous and exclusive economic zones.

Understanding the above references puts the accepted NW Passage routes well within Canadian waters.

To stay in international waters you must travel north of the Canadian Arctic Archipelago. Traveling west to east, at the eastern end that now puts you approaching the NW tip of Greenland. The narrowest passage between Greenland and the Canadian islands is under 12 NM as measured on Google Earth. You must travel north around Greenland to stay in international waters. East to west would be no different.

Because nations such as the US and Russia want to dispute the International Waters status of the NW Passage does not make the NW Passage International Waters.. It is a dispute until settled. To say Canada is committing piracy by defending in her views her rights is at best arrogant nonsense.

Hopefully it is now clear to you that what I and others have said. The NW Passage goes THROUGH Canada.

Would it be too much trouble to apply for the proper Canadian permit? And where do you get the idea you need 30 - 40 permits? I have in my career worked extensively in Canada on a US boat. I have found that one doesn't need permits from First Nations peoples. One should contact them, and respectfully ask to travel their waters. If arrogance and ignorance are left out of the communications all is well.
 
I didn't ask you about the route. I asked you about your boating/cruising experience...

Yeah, I've been trying to tease that out of him as well. The silence is telling.

Back in my rock climbing days there was a guy who would only show up in the spring, to a top roping site, with a huge bag of the newest most expensive gear. He would bring absolute beginners and only do the easiest of climbs. He also had a climbing magazine subscription delivered to his place of employment.

He would challenge me to do some big walls on the Skeena River and of course I'd decline, knowing they were way above my skill level. To shut him up, I said if you can lead climb the Black Dike (a 1/2 pitch 5.11 underclinging fractured basalt like off-width intrusion with smooth granite to either side and a bulging small overhang midway with about 20' fall potential...a local test piece) I'd think about it. That finally shut him up.

This thread has the same sort of feel.
 
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Portage Bay....nothing new there. You accept their claim ...others dont.
 
Regarding that NZ boat that defied the canadian governments spurious claim, the subject came up last nite in one one the dockside bars here. This is what a canadian guy said...I paraphrase.....'Certainly the Canadian gov will try to attempt to stop you, control you, shake you down, etc. but considering that their CG and navy are so puny, youre very likely to be able to simple slip theu without them even noticing you'! How w embarrassing must that be for them. Indeed, I wonder how many do slip thru. In any case, we probably wont even bother.
 
DE,

Your posts have now become somewhat entertaining, so I cant help myself and keep tuning in for more.

I am starting to think you are one of the following:

A. Just having some fun, and playing with us under a pseudonym.

-0r-

B. An arrogant kook who cant spell.

Looking forward to your snappy comeback.
 
Hollywood8118....It seems that somewhere you said it was "laughable" to shoot with flares and spearguns at a bear boarding your boat. That didnt answer my question to the member about what he thinks a bear would do with 4 guys doing that? What do YOU think?


This is ludicrous
It would piss him off and then he would eat them.


HOLLYWOOD
 
Today I only respond to serious messages


You clearly do not understand how things are and work.

You clearly have watched too many movies and believe they portray

the ability of a speargun out of water.. they dont




And I was being serious.


HW
 
And I will jump out there and say what the members here think,


Please dont respond or post to anything.


HOLLYWOOD
 
Today I only respond to serious messages
Good luck David. As an FYI, you've alienated a large percentage of the most knowledgeable boaters on this site. Not many left to give you what you're looking for. Most are just following this train wreck to see what the next whacky post might be.

In all candor, you got some pretty good information early in the thread - several links, even a recent documentary of a yacht who transitted in 2019. Not sure why it was dismissed. The guy who said flare guns and spear guns for polar bear would do more to agitate than repel was likely excellent advice.
 
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