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Old 01-25-2019, 09:43 PM   #21
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The link below is not related to the N120, but to an unfortunate situation resulting in the loss of a Nordhavn prior to delivery - and a more desirable outcome for all involved. I think it speaks to the character of the company and the principals.

https://www.nordhavn.com/news/headlines/tokkie/
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:10 PM   #22
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The recording was a US deposition not a Canadian examination. I guess it just shows the differences between US and other countries like the UK and Australia. Outside of the US posting a clip like this would never fly.

I wonder how much this whole process cost. One would have to assume more than the tax savings that appear to be much of what started the breakdown in relations between PAE and the other side.
Without going outside of what is presented in this thread, I see a difference in tax treatment for personal ownership vs Corporate ownership, by an Alberta Corp, of at least the BC Provincial Sales tax, 7% at all material times, so on a 16M boat, 1.12M. If Conconi lost the fight with the CBSA over whose boat it really was, and attributed that loss to Leischman, that single issue was his reason for the fight to be on.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:24 PM   #23
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A new N120 is $15m? Wow, I would've guessed like $5m or so. Lol
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:36 PM   #24
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A new N120 is $15m? Wow, I would've guessed like $5m or so. Lol
$16 million. Low for a boat that size.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:21 PM   #25
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Without going outside of what is presented in this thread, I see a difference in tax treatment for personal ownership vs Corporate ownership, by an Alberta Corp, of at least the BC Provincial Sales tax, 7% at all material times, so on a 16M boat, 1.12M. If Conconi lost the fight with the CBSA over whose boat it really was, and attributed that loss to Leischman, that single issue was his reason for the fight to be on.
Did you practice in Port Coquitlam at one time?
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:24 PM   #26
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Did you practice in Port Coquitlam at one time?
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:53 AM   #27
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Without going outside of what is presented in this thread, I see a difference in tax treatment for personal ownership vs Corporate ownership, by an Alberta Corp, of at least the BC Provincial Sales tax, 7% at all material times, so on a 16M boat, 1.12M. If Conconi lost the fight with the CBSA over whose boat it really was, and attributed that loss to Leischman, that single issue was his reason for the fight to be on.

And many feel that is exactly what the whole spat was about. The give-away is that Conconi was trying to prove that he never "accepted" the boat, so the deal was never consummated, and PAE owned it, not him. And he just wanted his money back on a boat that was never completed and accepted...even though he used it for a few years...
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:44 AM   #28
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Nordhvn must have really needed to get an unfinished 120' out of inventory to do business, again, with someone like Mr. Conconi. Sometimes the best business decision is to not do business with a holes or dishonest people.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:18 PM   #29
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The other sad part is that Nordhavn already knew who they were dealing with and kept getting deeper and deeper with him.
I've worked at several places where we had an internal policy we called "Firing the Customer". It is possible to calculate the cost of doing business (goods, returns, shorted invoices, amount of labor hours) vs. profit to determine if you're actually making a profit from a customer. When the answer is no, the deduction was "Zero is greater than a negative number".

At that point, we choose to no longer do business with that company. We explain why, tell them that we appreciated the business relationship, but we're going to go in a different direction. We then provide them with the contact information for our competitors.

The customer is not always right. The customer has the right to ask, however as a vendor, you're not compelled to always say "yes".
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:11 PM   #30
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I've worked at several places where we had an internal policy we called "Firing the Customer". It is possible to calculate the cost of doing business (goods, returns, shorted invoices, amount of labor hours) vs. profit to determine if you're actually making a profit from a customer. When the answer is no, the deduction was "Zero is greater than a negative number".

At that point, we choose to no longer do business with that company. We explain why, tell them that we appreciated the business relationship, but we're going to go in a different direction. We then provide them with the contact information for our competitors.

The customer is not always right. The customer has the right to ask, however as a vendor, you're not compelled to always say "yes".
Nordhavn just couldn't afford to fire this customer. I fired customers in my previous business life and refused to deal with some such as a famous resort and hotel ownership group. Even today we do the same both at retail and wholesale. Some are not surprised at all, others get furious and rant and rave and threaten.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:20 PM   #31
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"Sometimes you just have to fire a customer". Some of the best business advice I ever received.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:43 PM   #32
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One of my main tenets in life is to stay away from a'holes and flakes. It has served me well in both business and personal life. While I have pretty much retired from the business side, I tell our property manager for our rental units that we would rather be vacant for months than have bad or questionable tenants.
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:16 PM   #33
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Something I learnt during a short post retirement fun period working in real estate was to ask in an appropriate case:" We can have the listing but do we really want it?".
Nordhaven`s reasons for going with this atypical build are well stated already, but with the added experience would they go there again? What is the risk of another customer with a similar outlook?
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:49 PM   #34
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Something I learnt during a short post retirement fun period working in real estate was to ask in an appropriate case:" We can have the listing but do we really want it?".
Nordhaven`s reasons for going with this atypical build are well stated already, but with the added experience would they go there again? What is the risk of another customer with a similar outlook?
Obviously, can't be sure, but I believe given the situation they were in, they would do the same thing again. I read some of what they wrote about that period and they were fighting with everything they had for the survival of their company and for their employees. Sometimes tomorrow's pain is worth it, if it helps you survive today.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:41 PM   #35
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One of my main tenets in life is to stay away from a'holes and flakes. It has served me well in both business and personal life. While I have pretty much retired from the business side, I tell our property manager for our rental units that we would rather be vacant for months than have bad or questionable tenants.
THAT is sage advice. If only we could all be so fortunate!
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:55 AM   #36
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Obviously, can't be sure, but I believe given the situation they were in, they would do the same thing again. I read some of what they wrote about that period and they were fighting with everything they had for the survival of their company and for their employees. Sometimes tomorrow's pain is worth it, if it helps you survive today.
I figured that, but they certainly were dragged through the briar bush backwards in the process. If it kept the balls in the air so they could survive it was worth it, and they were not to know how messy the transaction would get. Maybe if they had a different client it might have been easier.
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Old 02-01-2019, 02:34 AM   #37
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Happy to see the new owner and crew enjoying her.

https://youtu.be/oUp8NwaD5e8
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:34 AM   #38
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Maybe if they had a different client it might have been easier.
Typical Nordhavn buyer would have simply said, "This is the way it is" and remained patient and forgiving regardless. Nordhavn buyers are incredibly tolerant and patient in most situations, beyond the norm.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:44 AM   #39
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....

1. Conconi got Nordhavn to sign an insane contract that they stood no chance of fulfilling 100%.
.....

I'd like to see you argue that in court. "Your honor, we just couldn't perform, we had no chance, don't blame us, the other party was just a great negotiator."


According to your logic, Nordhavn should have lost? I mean they agreed to do something they didn't do, or maybe you presume to know too much?
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:20 PM   #40
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Crusty you and RT are such pot stirers!!!
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