Nordhavn vs Fleming vs Kady Krogen

[BluewaterN47]

You've done an excellent job of defining what you want to do with the boat you hope to buy or build, a great first step.


As someone who owned a passagemaking powerboat for 16 years, cruised her for 40,000+ miles including crossing the Caribbean, the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and absolutely loved the experience, let me recommend that you spend some time listening to the wisdom of Cliff Rome, who has owned a 70-foot passagemaker and has put more than 200,000 miles in her wake over 30 years. He's an immensely experienced offshore cruiser, and his free YouTube video will add to your perspective in a huge way. It's long but WELL worth the time. Watch it two or three times!



Cliff and I have been close friends for more than 25 years. I've cruised in company with him, and he's one of the most capable and knowledgeable owner-skippers I've ever known. Nothing can replace the wisdom he's gained with the cruising he's done, so pay attention to what he has to say. If you go down the path you intend, you won't regret it!



Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTjJtNhSpqY&t


As I have said to so many new Nordhavn owners when I welcome them to the Nordhavn Owners Group (which I've moderated for close to a decade), you have great adventures ahead!



Milt Baker, former Nordhavn 47 Bluewater

 

[OldDan1943]

AGM or LifePro?
Dont be in a hurry.... Wait till it is time to change the batteries.
The easiest, fastest and least expensive way to go is to remain with AGM. You dont have to change out anything else. All systems are in balance.... Enjoy the season.

 

[Simi 60]

Plough

 

[Bob Cofer]

I’ve lusted over this model for years. Nice purchase!

 

[READY]

It would be valuable for the next person just starting their search to see how much you learned and how much changes if you take your time and do your homework. I pulled your wish list from your first post. While you got many of these I suspect there were other key requirements and considerations you added as a result of your quest. Great if you find some time to summarize. For sure IMO the big shift was deciding (maybe under duress of the insurance consideration that you noted) to start with a coastal boat and then move up. No doubt you will continue to add/remove or reorder items on your next list.

This from your first post. Congrats again on Moondance!

have to have the qualities we want.
1. Stand up engine room
2. King bed located mid ship
3. Giant Fridge
4. Spacious fishing platform and cleaning station
5. Water-tight doors especially to the engine room
6. Protected prop from ice, rocks and logs
7. Redundancy Redundancy Redundancy
8. Water maker

 

[Magneto]

It would be valuable for the next person just starting their search to see how much you learned and how much changes if you take your time and do your homework. I pulled your wish list from your first post. While you got many of these I suspect there were other key requirements and considerations you added as a result of your quest. Great if you find some time to summarize. For sure IMO the big shift was deciding (maybe under duress of the insurance consideration that you noted) to start with a coastal boat and then move up. No doubt you will continue to add/remove or reorder items on your next list.

This from your first post. Congrats again on Moondance!

have to have the qualities we want.
1. Stand up engine room
2. King bed located mid ship
3. Giant Fridge
4. Spacious fishing platform and cleaning station
5. Water-tight doors especially to the engine room
6. Protected prop from ice, rocks and logs
7. Redundancy Redundancy Redundancy
8. Water maker

Thank you Ken, this brings back memories.
I have a different list now that I am an owner. Things start out such as this list and reality slaps you in the face.

#1. Insurance was the first. I had only 26 feet of sailboat experience so the insurance company knocked down the stand up engine room size boat. An N60 may come later. But I'm happy with my N35, just have to get skinny to work in the engine room comfortably.

#2 N35 has a shaped queen which is the minimum for us and our dog. It works and we spend a small amount of time on it compared to the other spaces.

#3 The fridge is and was a requirement because we are foodies and love to cook. The N35 has a medium size fridge. Not small and not large. The work around will be sacrifice. We talked about adding a small freezer but the more time we spend aboard, the more we look at sacrifice and adaptation. Space is very valuable.

#4 The swim platform and cockpit on the N35 is very acceptable for leisure and fishing. It's one of the things we liked when we first stepped aboard. We will be using every bit of this.
#5 It's a Nordhavn. With all doors closed, I'm told we can take a full roll over. Not that I want to test it but I do feel secure in it.
#6
Got it.

#7 Don't have a wing engine or twins. I guess I will have to make the one Yanmar engine with low hours my "get home engine". My back up will be proper maintenance and my VHF. Also our dinghy is a brand new Highfield with a 25hp.

#8 We are plumed for a water maker. Our fresh water tanks are large enough to make us rethink this but were advise to not jump into a water maker until we have lived aboard for some time. I think we will add one later when we are out at sea more.

What I could add to this list now that we are on board is Solar. The N35 has a huge deck area above the pilot house instead of a flybridge. There is a lot of room for solar panels. Our RV is loaded for solar and we use every bit of it. We just lucked into our boat having the room for panels and plan to add them soon. We are more of a "at anchor and cursing type" rather than marinas and shore power type of people. I try to keep running the generator a last resort.

Thanks for this idea.

 

[Greg QS]

A word of caution before diving in. You said you have no experience over 30 of any kind. You may not be insurable. insurance companies do not like large jumps in size. You may need to have a captain on retainer in order to get insurance. One of the sales on the boat i purchased had failed due to the potential byer not being able to get insurance due to lack of experience with larger vessels. My insurance agent ( i went with Chubb) said insurance companies do not like jumps of more than 10 to 15 feet.

 

[twistedtree]

A word of caution before diving in. You said you have no experience over 30 of any kind. You may not be insurable. insurance companies do not like large jumps in size. You may need to have a captain on retainer in order to get insurance. One of the sales on the boat i purchased had failed due to the potential byer not being able to get insurance due to lack of experience with larger vessels. My insurance agent ( i went with Chubb) said insurance companies do not like jumps of more than 10 to 15 feet.

I think the worst you will have to do is hire a training captain for a while. I know people who’s first boat ever was a Nordhavn 55 or larger.

 

[Prospective]

I think the worst you will have to do is hire a training captain for a while. I know people who’s first boat ever was a Nordhavn 55 or larger.

Man, that would be some fun stories. Can any of us imagine having a 55 Nordhavn as a first boat? Obviously not impossible since folks have done it. But the learning curve in everything from systems to navigation and boat handling would be steep and long.

 

[twistedtree]

Man, that would be some fun stories. Can any of us imagine having a 55 Nordhavn as a first boat? Obviously not impossible since folks have done it. But the learning curve in everything from systems to navigation and boat handling would be steep and long.

There is a guy who drops in here periodically who bought an N55 and did the Big U (Alaska to Maine vs Panama Canal). He learned fast and mid way was elbows deep in his engine replacing the coolant pump all on his own. I saw his wife at the very beginning and then after the trip. At the beginning she was very WTF are we doing, but going along with her husband’s dream. At the end she was spry and confident and said it was the best thing they ever did.

It’s uncommon, but if you have a mind for learning, it can obviously be done.

 

[bowball]

Man, that would be some fun stories. Can any of us imagine having a 55 Nordhavn as a first boat? Obviously not impossible since folks have done it. But the learning curve in everything from systems to navigation and boat handling would be steep and long.

Learning is really part of the fun. It was the challenge I wanted. I started with a Fleming as a first boat. It’s definitely manageable if you love to learn.

 

[Fletcher500]

I am currently in DP, the land of the Nordhavn. There is a N55 parked next to me at the moment. The concept of that being ones first boat doesn't make sense to me. Sure, people do it and some learn faster than others, but I am a big proponent of starting off with a smaller size vessel to gain experience and knowledge and then working up from there if the end destination is a large cruising boat in the 50 to 60 ft range. I have been around boats both recreationally and working boats since I was a teenager and learn something new on the water every day and still take my lumps on occasion. Time and experience can not be bought.

 

[twistedtree]

I am currently in DP, the land of the Nordhavn. There is a N55 parked next to me at the moment. The concept of that being ones first boat doesn't make sense to me. Sure, people do it and some learn faster than others, but I am a big proponent of starting off with a smaller size vessel to gain experience and knowledge and then working up from there if the end destination is a large cruising boat in the 50 to 60 ft range. I have been around boats both recreationally and working boats since I was a teenager and learn something new on the water every day and still take my lumps on occasion. Time and experience can not be bought.

That's been my approach too, but to each his own. Each boat for me has enabled me to figure out what's next, and we have moved step-wise into progressively more serious boating. But it's worth acknowledging that some people have the big dream, jump right it, and are successful. That said, I'll bet 9/10 people who jump in end up running away screaming, and 1/10 are successful.

 

[klee wyck]

There is a guy who drops in here periodically who bought an N55 and did the Big U (Alaska to Maine vs Panama Canal). He learned fast and mid way was elbows deep in his engine replacing the coolant pump all on his own. I saw his wife at the very beginning and then after the trip. At the beginning she was very WTF are we doing, but going along with her husband’s dream. At the end she was spry and confident and said it was the best thing they ever did.

It’s uncommon, but if you have a mind for learning, it can obviously be done.

I think to some degree in both business and in boating, success in either often comes not from tiptoeing toward that success, but by barreling into it.
Funny story from early in my practice life as a large animal veterinarian:
This was a long time ago when dairy farms were still usually small. I had moved from a conservative town in a conservative state where a big herd expansion was adding a couple of cows. I had moved to a west coast ag powerhouse state and one day a client announced he was adding 100 cows. Wow I said, bold move!
Now this was an older, distinguished, polite, and religious man as they often were.
In response to my wow comment he glanced at me casually and offered a four-word response that I never forgot, and which has served me well in both business and in boating.
He said "no balls....no babies"
I salute the guy who bought the big Nordy as his first boat and suspect he managed just fine, not because he was ignorant of the risks and challenges, but because he was committed to being prepared for them.

 

[Bmarler]

Maybe a 55 is a small boat in his eye. Maybe his friends all have 100 plus footers and he’s just dipping his toes.

 

[rslifkin]

There's also the thought that there's some minimum size (although probably smaller than 55 feet) where you'll be able to learn and get experience that's directly relevant to what you want to do, even if it means you have to pay for a captain for a bit. Starting with a 22 footer isn't necessarily going to get you up to speed as quickly for wanting to cross oceans, for example.

 

[twistedtree]

I think there is an important consideration in all this that we haven't discussed. The guy I know had a pretty specific and bounded goal. He was talking a sabatical, and wanted to go on a grand boat cruise. I don't know if the big-u was the goal, but I do know he wanted to go with his family off on a boat adventure for his sabatical. So he did that, then sold the boat when he was done.



In contrast, I think it's more common for people to be seeking some sort of longer term boating style, and I think that's where trying different things and working your way into what finally works for you may take some time. I know it did for us. We didn't go buy a big boat right from the start because I didn't know if that's what we wanted. We wanted to try cruising, first for a few days, then weeks, then months to see if we really liked it. It took a few steps with a few boats along the way, with each boat serving it's goal at the time.

 

[Prospective]

Everyone is different. I admire people that leap into something like that but it wouldn't be the move I could make. Some of it may also be ignorance is bliss. I know enough about boats to know how complicated the care and captaining of a 55' Nordhavn is. If you haven't spent any time around boats maybe what you don't know is less scarey.

My first boat was a twin engine 28' express style boat that my family and I cruised all over. My friends who had boats thought that was too big to start. But for me it was just right. Just enough systems and size to have to learn proper boat handling and care. But small enough I knew I wanted a bigger one. And then a bigger one after that.

I remember staying on that boat at a marina on cape cod and being next to a guy who had just bought (a few weeks prior) a gorgeous 53' Little Harbor sailboat. He was single and had just retired. He was so proud of it he gave me a tour. Come to find out he knew nothing about sailing. But he'd hired a captain who was teaching him and he spent his time on the boat crawling around getting to know stuff. No idea what might have happened to him. I hope he realized his dreams.

 

[OldDan1943]

If you buy a 'too big' boat, two things may happen. You will 'grow into it.' If you or partner, discover will never be 'comfortable', sell the boat and buy a smaller boat.
If you buy a 'too small' boat, two things may happen. You and your wife will learn to economize to the available space or you will sell it and buy a bigger boat so when your kids move out or lose interest, you have extra space, your guest will move in and stay forever. Or in my case, Yen will fill all the extra space more clothes. LOL

 

[socalrider]

If you buy a 'too big' boat, two things may happen. You will 'grow into it.' If you or partner, discover will never be 'comfortable', sell the boat and buy a smaller boat.
If you buy a 'too small' boat, two things may happen. You and your wife will learn to economize to the available space or you will sell it and buy a bigger boat so when your kids move out or lose interest, you have extra space, your guest will move in and stay forever. Or in my case, Yen will fill all the extra space more clothes. LOL

The above is also the case if you by 'exactly the right size' boat