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Old 08-09-2021, 05:53 AM   #21
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"That being said if I do not plan to go up the Pacific coast to Alaska or cross the Atlantic, does spending the big money for a Nordhavn make sense?"

Not at all ,besides being 200-300% more expensive the features that are a delight offshore do nothing for the usual trawler travels.

Larger tanks mean less room for other goodies. Vast food storage is great for 3-6 months if independant travel ,but reduces room for humans. Frequent hand grips , and less open areas (so occupants can't be tossed as far) is not for all.

To me one big goal is a zero round trip, you can sell the boat for what you paid , no ,it does not include "improvements " or repairs , or operating expenses.

The top of the line offshore boats have good reputations for what they can do, tho not one in a hundred (perhaps 1/1000) actually use the feature paid for.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:43 AM   #22
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I have owned and been in boats my whole life, growing up in Nova Scotia until I was 20 I spent a lot of time sailing and lobster fishing. For the past 25 years I have been living in Ontario, and mostly lake boats, starting from 16ft bow riders, up to my current boat which is a 28ft Four Winns.

I am very comfortable in boats and on the water, however your right my experience is limited to a few overnight trips around the Trent-Severn.

I guess my question I was trying to find an answer to is this:

If my goal is the island hop:

Florida -> Bahama's -> BVI -> southeast down the chain to Grenda, would any type of cruiser boat be suitable assuming it had enough fuel range to span the largest crossing between islands?

IE, 40ft crusiers like Sea Rays, Carvers, etc.

Or would buying any of those "cruiser style" boats be a huge mistake for my intended route, and I should be looking at boats that are considered more capable such as: Fleming, Grandbanks, Sabre, Mainship, Helmsman, Backcove,

For that kind of use, the more capable of the coastal cruiser types could do it, but I'd say heading that far out into the Carribean will want more fuel range and a more comfortable motion in seas than many cruiser types have. So I'd tend to cross the Sea Rays off the list (I'm not sure they've ever made anything well suited to this use), but for the others, look at each specific model individually, particularly with some of the brands like Carver and Bayliner. Plenty of brands have made various different boats with very different real-world capability despite appearing similar at a glance.

I wouldn't hesitate to do the Bahamas in my boat, but with gas engines, fuel range is a problem. And it's not an ideal hull for serious offshore work for various reasons, so I'd have to give some serious thought to whether good planning would be enough for taking it further out.
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Old 08-09-2021, 11:10 AM   #23
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I wouldn't hesitate to do the Bahamas in my boat, but with gas engines, fuel range is a problem. And it's not an ideal hull for serious offshore work for various reasons, so I'd have to give some serious thought to whether good planning would be enough for taking it further out.
Bahamas are nothing like the Caribbean.
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Old 08-09-2021, 11:20 AM   #24
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Bahamas are nothing like the Caribbean.
That's exactly my point. The majority of coastal cruisers can handle the Bahamas, but a much smaller subset of them are suitable for heading further out into the Carribean, even with careful planning.
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Old 08-09-2021, 03:00 PM   #25
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Alternatives

Having owned three Nordhavn's and more recently a Helmsman 38E (good boat) my opinion (for what its worth) is for you to use the 90% rule and find a well built and quality boat. Focus on quality / safety over size in your search. Remember a wider beam offers more space and is less costly to own when compared to LOA.
Granted we always felt "safe" with our Norhdavn's (overbuilt) and we missed that on the Helmsman at times "but" Nordhavn's are complex boats (many systems) and they require a lot of attention and budget. Sometimes simpler can be better...

If you can afford the Nordhavn then go for it (used is fine) and you will likely be glade you did when the weather turns bad and your getting bounced around. If not then look for something else with a good reputation that fits your mission. Don't rush your search, get aboard as many boats as possible before making your decision..

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Old 08-09-2021, 05:08 PM   #26
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Diesel duck
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Old 08-09-2021, 05:31 PM   #27
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I have always liked this one
Gardner powered , steel, has travelled Australia and South East Asia
Could buy her and still have a million in change to run and maintain her or invest and provide income.




https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...cruiser/252245
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Old 08-09-2021, 05:52 PM   #28
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Those look ginormous for a 55'.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:09 PM   #29
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Those look ginormous for a 55'.
Yep, haven't been on this one but have been on a sister ship and I was blown away by the space.
Seemed much bigger than our 60 fter
Very much the TARDIS
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Old 08-10-2021, 06:27 AM   #30
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I asked a similar question awhile back. This thread had some helpful responses.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ing-51291.html
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Old 08-10-2021, 09:54 AM   #31
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Some 25ish years ago we took a slightly different approach to the island hopping boat choice. We wanted a very seaworthy boat with a 20kt cruise in the 40-45 foot range. We chose an older sport fish. Those who fish are nuts enough to go in all kinds of weather, they just don’t go very far. Our previous boat was a 41’ hatteras with 450hp 671 Detroits. With 400gals of fuel she had a 200+nm range at 18kts, twice that at displacement speed and even more with fuel bladders on deck. And yes, we crossed the Gulf Stream many times, occasionally with wave heights above the fly bridge.

Our recently purchased boat, a Silverton 42 convertible, carries 500gals and cruises 20kts at 35gph giving her a 285nm range with 485hp yanmars running 75% power. She’s not a tank like the Hatt but still quite a capable boat.

While we enjoy fishing and the other uses for the cockpit, some prefer having that space enclosed. For them, some manufacturers with sport fishing pedigrees produced motor yachts on “sport fish” hulls. Hatteras, Viking and Bertram come to mind. All would have the range and seaworthiness for a Caribbean cruise.
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Old 08-10-2021, 12:17 PM   #32
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Nordhaven alternatives

I trecked from Florida/Bahamas all the way to Venezuela and back, hitting all of the countries in Central & South America along the way and all of the Caribbean islands on the way back, including Cuba. Still cruising, in a different boat.

My boat was a 1982 Ocean Alexander sedan, 42'. Suited the journey very well. Many adventures and difficulties but perservered.

You do not need a Nordhaven or K&K, just a sound vessel and a lot of common sense.
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Old 08-10-2021, 06:01 PM   #33
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From what I have read on this forum and other websites, Nordhavn are often the most popular or recommended for long distance liveaboard travels.
I think that sailboats are still pretty popular and recommended. I take it you've considered that option? Lot of very nice sailing multihull long distance cruisers out there, as well as older offshore proven monohulls at relatively affordable prices.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:12 AM   #34
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Right now at the top of our list is a Helmsman 38, I am not convinced yet that it would be big enough to live on without driving each other crazy, but until I can spend some time on one in person it remains our 1st choice.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:16 PM   #35
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Been doing this long enough to know every once in awhile all the computer models and your weather router gets it wrong. Also know sometimes you don’t assess a compression zone at the edge of an island or a wind tunnel between two mountains, a rage or other local effects. Further know just about every passage includes a squall line or three. Also have learned the prudence of belt and suspenders if off the shelf.
Yes, going down the east coast and then working east is quite doable in many vessels but passage making is unwise except in a few. There’s a a mystique to the Nordhavns. Most are unnecessary for their actual use and the expense unjustified. Unfortunately it’s a niche market so there few production manufacturers. Personally be happy in a one off of Fe or Al built for that program. However, in grp Nordhavn does stand alone. Grp tanks. True redundancy. Suitable range. Proper construction and fuel handling. True belt and suspenders with stout construction.
Our struggle has been to find a used one where removing and reworking prior owner “improvements “ isn’t too onerous and she has been properly cared for. We accept the Covid bump in price and the fact any 15-20 year old boat will need refit. But been amazed how these ocean going vessels have deteriorated from lack of use , failure to follow ABYC principles or just plain neglect. Have owned and sailed similar level sail on passage. Generally speaking would have no reluctance taking a 20-30 year old Cheribini ketch/schooner, Hinckley, Swan, Baltic, Amel, Outbound, HR etc. on a extended voyage. Surprised in the divergence. Admittedly we’re looking at under 52’. Perhaps it’s different once you go larger. See the same in the KKs so don’t think it’s brand specific. Think folks don’t initially appreciate the purchase price is just the entrance fee. To keep up a voyaging boat (sail or power) at a safe passage making level is a big jump in hours and funds spent c/w a coastal boat. A serious commitment and constant exercise. You give up a lot as well. Ergonomics are different. There’s no reason in my mind to buy any voyaging boat unless that’s your program. Almost all your time you’re still. A coastal boat is generally more comfortable comparing similar sizes and at much less a hit on the cruising kitty. So budget then allows other interests and non boating expenditures.
You read about some N owners who do remarkable things and their boats are well used. Believe TT will be in that group. But it’s a shame too many aren’t used so owners have no need to outfit and maintain their boats for that service. It shows when boat hunting.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:30 PM   #36
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Consider an American Tug41. I own an AT34 and really like it, checked all my boxes. They are both 'costal' so that means, no further out that 200miles. Personally, I have no intention of going out 200miles.

Dont worry about a N41 being your first boat. If you buy a Nordhavn first, you wont have to worry about buying a 2nd boat.

Pay attention to waterline length. Dont worry about LOA. LOA includes the bow pulpit and the swim platform.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:37 PM   #37
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Pay attention to waterline length. Dont worry about LOA. LOA includes the bow pulpit and the swim platform.
Be careful with age of the boat on this one. On older boats, the listed LOA is often really LOD (length on deck), as it's the length of the molded hull and excludes any bolt ons (so a molded in platform counts, but a bolt on one doesn't). Newer stuff has gotten rid of that distinction and the LOA is often the real LOA (measured tip to tip). That's why some builders (like American Tug) have re-numbered models over time without actually changing the size (like the AT34 became the AT365 and the AT37 became the AT395).

On my boat, for example, the manufacturer lists the LOA as 38'0", but that doesn't include the bolted on bow pulpit or swim platform. Those bring the total up to 42'4", so if sold new today, it would likely be sold as a 42 or 43 foot boat (with the listed LOA as 42'4").
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Old 08-11-2021, 01:30 PM   #38
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Dont worry about a N41 being your first boat. If you buy a Nordhavn first, you wont have to worry about buying a 2nd boat.
Wrong. Huge percentage of N41 buyers move up to other Nordhavn's or on to other boats. It's seldom a final boat.
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Old 08-13-2021, 01:53 PM   #39
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As an MIT trained naval architect and marine engineer & a holder of a merchant license for over 40 years with countless sea miles aboard all sorts of boats; in my opinion if you intend any deep water cruising, I would only consider a full displacement vessel. However, all are not created equal...there can be vast differences in seaworthiness and seakindliness. Many cruisers who are very happy with their boats lack the experience and context to appreciate it could be much better in the right boat.

For example, there are loads of well-designed, engineered and built steel boats available which in my opinion are far superior to most Asian built trawlers. An older, fully depreciated boat that has been well loved and updated is usually a much better value than a newer boat provided that boat has a great pedigree. Such boats can be quite affordable relative to others. I often speak at events on the virtues of simpler boats. I would be happy to expand on this subject privately.
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Old 08-13-2021, 02:04 PM   #40
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As an MIT trained naval architect and marine engineer & a holder of a merchant license for over 40 years with countless sea miles aboard all sorts of boats; in my opinion if you intend any deep water cruising, I would only consider a full displacement vessel. However, all are not created equal...there can be vast differences in seaworthiness and seakindliness. Many cruisers who are very happy with their boats lack the experience and context to appreciate it could be much better in the right boat.

For example, there are loads of well-designed, engineered and built steel boats available which in my opinion are far superior to most Asian built trawlers. An older, fully depreciated boat that has been well loved and updated is usually a much better value than a newer boat provided that boat has a great pedigree. Such boats can be quite affordable relative to others. I often speak at events on the virtues of simpler boats. I would be happy to expand on this subject privately.
Wow...I have wondered for years whether anyone here would actually speak this truth out loud in the face of the widespread hype around a few species of what I would personally consider very ordinary and perhaps overly complex sea boats.
I recognize my own bias as well, but this above seems very well spoken truth that is rarely acknowledged.
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