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Old 03-03-2021, 03:49 PM   #81
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I think Simi60 brings up some valid thoughts

I certainly have more to learn than I even know... about which spares make sense to keep on hand, etc... but I can certainly lean on backpacking and other engineering experiences here just a bit
I'm thinking along similar lines....keep it simple, keep it light...
for things like water maker
seems to me that a good rain collection system as a back-up would be a good idea.... cheap, simple, small, light, & likely to be never needed..and better yet it could be dual purposed.
Taking it a step further.... if tankage was small or you otherwise let things get low before refilling, then I could imagine taking survival back-ups to another level such as something like this
https://www.katadyn.com/us/us/89625-...-Survivor-06-a

My perspective in thinking is even if you do for example cross the Atlantic that's only a relatively short amount of time that you're out there.
Different tune I suppose if going way out in the sticks for a really long period of time... maybe circumnavigating Antarctica perhaps?
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:28 PM   #82
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It all depends on where you use the boat. If you can manage without a system for the time it'll take to get somewhere that you can obtain parts, or be at a dock for a few days to make the problem unimportant while you work on it, then it doesn't need redundancy.
The advantages of staying relatively simple

For us, pretty much everything apart from an inverter charger can be lived without and even that, worse thing that happens is our refrigerated /frozen foods get fed to the fish.
We have enough dried and tinned to go several months

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But if you travel far from anywhere and it's a system that's more than a minor inconvenience to lose, then I'd want the redundancy.
Redundancy or the skills to fix or cobble together a work around?

We have lived aboard away and unattached for 4.5 years
You learn or are forced to keep things going if you don't have immediate access to repair facilities or shops.
What parts we don't carry we order online and collect at our next port.

Good example at the moment on keeping things going is the exhaust elbow on the genset.
Aluminium bolted to aluminium with frozen steel bolts.
Aluminium elbow has a hole on both sides below the BRASS water injection point, surrounding metal seems solid.
Has been sanded and wet epoxy sanded in and glassed up twice in the last 12mths as the heat leads to bond failure after about 60 hours of usage.
McGyvering it together until we are next out of the water as the whole assembly will need to be removed, sent off and repaired.
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:38 PM   #83
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The advantages of staying relatively simple

For us, pretty much everything apart from an inverter charger can be lived without and even that, worse thing that happens is our refrigerated /frozen foods get fed to the fish.
We have enough dried and tinned to go several months


Redundancy or the skills to fix or cobble together a work around?

We have lived aboard away and unattached for 4.5 years
You learn or are forced to keep things going if you don't have immediate access to repair facilities or shops.
What parts we don't carry we order online and collect at our next port.

Good example at the moment on keeping things going is the exhaust elbow on the genset.
Aluminium bolted to aluminium with frozen steel bolts.
Aluminium elbow has a hole on both sides below the BRASS water injection point, surrounding metal seems solid.
Has been sanded and wet epoxy sanded in and glassed up twice in the last 12mths as the heat leads to bond failure after about 60 hours of usage.
McGyvering it together until we are next out of the water as the whole assembly will need to be removed, sent off and repaired.

For something like the inverter, you still have a work around. My plan would be to adjust wiring as needed, fire up the genset and head for the nearest place to plug in and wait a couple days for parts. Depending on where you are, how much food is onboard, and cost of dockage, that might come out cheaper than dumping and having to later replace all that food.



Depending on the system and usage, redundancy isn't necessarily to get you home, it's sometimes there just as much to avoid a potentially unpleasant situation while you're fixing it, or to allow you to delay the fix a few hours until conditions for doing it are better.
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Old 03-03-2021, 06:53 PM   #84
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I once got to go aboard a brand new Nordhavn 55 at our Sanctuary Cove Boat show here on the Gold Coast, quite a few years ago now. It happened to coincide with a time my brother was up from Melbourne, staying with us, so he went with me. I had a Clipper (CHB) 34 back then, he is not really into boating.

We both fell in love with the boat, but also both agreed on only one criticism - the cockpit needed to be longer. They must have heard us, because the 55 became the 60, and the rest is history, as well described by others, Twisted Tree in particular, having now a second Nordy, was right up there.

I love those Nordys so much now I doubt I could rest with getting anything other than one, a bit like John Baker.
So, maybe just as well other issues keep me out of boats.

However, should one win the Powerball, all bets would be off. Kite flying...I would buy a 43 to 60, depending on availability, and live aboard, and spend a lot of time around NZ, especially Stewart Island, based in Patterson's Inlet - a boating paradise, but cool enough weatherwise to keep the masses away. But it's only a dream...sigh...

Hey, Twisted, how about putting up a new pic in your avatar - or better still, some on the thread - particularly keen to see a profile view..? And, of course, once things are ship-shape inside, we'd love to see pics of inside as well.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:08 PM   #85
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Simi just before leaving the islands we took all the watch snacks, jugs of water (contaminated tanks or watermaker failure) and all the storm food for when it’s too bumpy to cook and all the dried/canned food (frig/freezer failure) out of the boat and gave it to charity. Our rule has always been twice as much as needed for expected time of passage. Was amazed how much stuff if was. Think many boats aren’t suitable for your program (or my past program) for no other reason than the absence of adequate storage. Enough space and well secured. Now crawling through various Nordhavns see someone thought of that need.
Would note there are very few areas of the world where rain collection gives you an adequate source. First it needs to rain for quite awhile to get rid of the dirt and salt the top of a boat collects. Second you need a large surface collection area which is hard to arrange on most boats. A squall or even most thunderstorms isn’t adequate. You need RO to get rid of the salt. You need a day of rain. Usually in most places you get a bunch of rainy days together and then nothing. That’s true even in rainy seasons. Of course you’re out of luck during dry periods.
Every cruiser I know who collects rain uses it to wash the boat, dishes or shower but doesn’t depend on it for potable water.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:29 PM   #86
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.
Every cruiser I know who collects rain uses it to wash the boat, dishes or shower but doesn’t depend on it for potable water.
We don't depend on it, the 1500 litres we collected has gone in on top of the 1500 that came out of the tap last year.

Bear in mind that in this part of the world rainwater tanks on houses was pretty normal in a lot of houses in Australia.
Often those houses had asbestos roofs and the tanks had frogs in them.
Don't remember hearing of anyone dying, the opposite probably happened, tougher and less susceptible to disease.

We don't collect unless the decks have been well scrubbed and the roof has had several hours on it.
Water then runs through a 100 micron sock and then through a double layer chux before going into tanks
No asbestos, no frogs.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:32 PM   #87
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See such tanks in the western Caribbean as well. But they seem to rather drink beer or Guinness ��.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:58 PM   #88
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Now that’s funny, that would be a question for TT!

Just winch it up on the deck
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:10 PM   #89
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I'm not having a go at you with my comment below and while I love the idea of all that redundancy I hate the idea of the loss of space, extra maintenance required and extra immediate and ongoing expense.

I believe its easy enough to come up with acceptable and easy compromises maintaining space, reducing maintenance and saving dollars on systems which in my eyes are mostly non essential.

, .
As I said in an earlier post, if your 1 water maker died surely you'd still have full water tanks, its not like you'll die of thirst before finding a fix - given that, would it even be an urgent fix?

We have no water maker but have big capacity across 5 tanks
We are also setup to collect rain - over 1.5 tonne of it in the last 48 hours of it
And the tender has a 200 litre bladder which is occasionally used.


Same or different?
I do see some vessels with different arrays so gather that's for some other reason than pure redundancy, though obviously if one dies they have a spare but......radar is very much non essential for us.
In 4.5 years of full time cruising radar has probably had 20 hours of usage and if it died tomorrow it would be replaced, eventually, but no urgency to do so.

Again, same?
Or a smaller one for lighter loads?
I look at our genset as our redundancy to our main power source. Solar
No moving parts, no servicing required, the silent gift that keeps on giving.

Impressive
We have had failures with macerator pumps on sewerage treatment plants and impellors on toilet pumps (we only have 2)
Half an hour and some creative plumbing, all easy access, had us pumping directly over the side for a month (not ideal but well away from civilisation) until we got a replacement.
The main deck toilet we simply bought in a bucket of saltwater to tip a bowl in for flushing.
Upside to this was a noticeable saving in our freshwater supply so continue doing the same today.

After having had a lightening strike on a previous vessel kill off anything with a dollar value of over $20 I avoid excessive electronics where I can, especially as our plan (pre covid) was to be in equatorial waters with higher likelihood of lightning strike.
If I do have them - its all stand alone , not interlinked with backups stored in the Faraday cage (microwave) during storms


There can only be one (said in my best Highlander voice )


2 joining into one and running through multiple filtration.

One Victron inverter charger soon to be two
But the solar mppt puts out 96 amps so I guess there's charging redundancy

Question: Do you use both and accept 50% charge if one fails or is it unused but available at the flick of a switch if the other dies?

.

Same same for lines on ours

The spare AP I got for $400

Same TMQ commercial quality unit we have now taken out of a superyacht for no real reason - its not shiny anymore?
Swapped it out with ours and put the original in the spares locker away from lightning

So much of this is about where and how you cruise. You have a big solar array and a climate that makes it a reliable source of power. For us it's a supplement, and only when weather cooperates.


I like your rain catchment. We don't have that, and also cruise in areas where water available from shore is not potable. So for us, I consider a water maker vital, and have two.


Radar optional? Yes, a different world indeed. Mine is on every minute that I'm underway.


And I think you make a really good point about the tradeoff between redundancy and space consumption. On my last boat I had only one generator, and a big reason is because I didn't want to give up the space. Now on the 68 I have more room, so able to do it.


Then on the flip side, I built the 68 with dual fresh water pumps so you can just switch between them. Regardless, I would carry a spare, and figured a good place to "store" the spare was hooked up and ready to run. Well, that lasted about a week and I pulled out the second pump and relocated the first. They were totally in the way, and just not enough space without making other access impossible.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:05 PM   #90
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We both fell in love with the boat, but also both agreed on only one criticism - the cockpit needed to be longer. They must have heard us, because the 55 became the 60, and the rest is history, as well described by others, Twisted Tree in particular, having now a second Nordy, was right up there.

The cockpits are an interesting one. I haven't asked Jeff Leishman directly, but I think they were all small to minimize the amount of water you could end up carrying if you took a wave across the stern. A cockpit full of water can wreak havoc on stability. The smaller the cockpit and the bigger the freeing ports, the less exposure you have.


But it is a common complaint on the older models, and all have since grown the cockpit.


One related story. When my 60 was in build, I'm told that Jeff visited the factory, saw my boat with the big cockpit, and also saw the older, smaller freeing ports that were carry over from the 55. "Those need to be bigger", was the comment, and my 60 was the first with much larger (longer) freeing ports.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:27 PM   #91
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Peter-B asked, sooooo.....
Attached Thumbnails
PCH_2020-12-23_18-19_0018.jpg   PCH_2020-12-23_18-21_0034.jpg   PCH_2021-01-07_16-12_1541.jpg   PCH_2021-01-07_16-12_1543.jpg   PCH_2021-01-08_13-12_1629.jpg  

PCH_2021-01-08_13-13_1630.jpg   PCH_2021-01-08_15-15_1765.jpg   PCH_2021-01-08_15-27_1779.jpg   PCH_2021-01-08_15-28_1784.jpg  
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:28 PM   #92
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And a few more
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:31 PM   #93
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Lovely setup for sure

What are the vertical fiberglass tanks?
Guessing something to do with water makers?
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:49 PM   #94
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Lovely setup for sure

What are the vertical fiberglass tanks?
Guessing something to do with water makers?

Thanks.


Good guess on the tanks. They are media filters, one for each water maker.
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:25 AM   #95
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The Scania install looks seamless. Are there any material changes to exhaust runs and water flows from a JD install?
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:36 AM   #96
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See such tanks in the western Caribbean as well. But they seem to rather drink beer or Guinness ��.
We've seen some very well designed roof collector and water storage systems in Hawaii. Two years ago we stayed in a house that had a total roof collector purification system consisting of filters, RO, UV and chlorination.

In many parts of rural HI no central water or sewage systems exist due to shifting lava flows and cost. Thus self contained systems, much like boating, are utilized.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:28 AM   #97
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Average income in Hawaii far exceeds that in the Caribbean. Especially in the Windwards. Trust in public water services varies as well. Did have the opportunity to get friendly with locals at various economic levels. Such systems as you describe are limited to upper levels of society. Rest do continue to buy potable water for ingestion. Was surprised by the amount of beer/stout drunk for hydration not recreation but that well might be a skewed view due to the nature of my interaction (invited over for lunch or dinner or to work with them on a charity project).
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:48 AM   #98
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Thanks for the pics @twistedtree.

As an outsider looking in.... (no Trawler, just dreaming/planning at this point), I stumbled upon Nordhavn via various google searches, youtube videos, etc.

I think the marketing sucked me in, but the marketing can only do so much. The reality is what keeps the demand and those prices high. I figure that marketing is perception, but reality is reality. Nordhavn does both, in my in-experienced, but fairly well-read experience.

In other areas of our life, we seem to subscribe to the "buy once, cry once" mentality. Even though we may end up as coastal cruisers or loopers, the resale of Nordhavn might financially make sense when it comes to selling.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:09 AM   #99
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The Scania install looks seamless. Are there any material changes to exhaust runs and water flows from a JD install?

Not much due to the engine selection. One thing is the exhaust tube. The Scania is happy with an 8" tube, and I think they use a 12" tube for the Deere wet exhaust. Also keep in mind that probably 90% of the Deere installation on this model are dry exhaust, not wet.



Muffler placement varies widely, and I was very involved in the arrangement on this boat to keep other spaces open and accessible as much as possible.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:58 AM   #100
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Know some of the large Nordhavns were delivered with wet exhausts and their two most recent offerings (N41 and 51) only come that way. Curious as to your thinking concerning this. Is there sufficient reason for the company to stop offering dry exhaust for all future models?
Having had my issues with wet exhaust in the past a strong driver for me to have a Nordhavn is the dry exhaust. Given we’re commonly in the tropics an occasional short haul and more frequent dives is our routine anyway.
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