Newer vs. Older

[wbnphd]

I'm considering my options at purchasing a 45 - 55 ft. trawler. I'm looking for opinions and things I may not have thought of. Here is my dilemma.

Do I purchase a "newer" boat with low hours for 600 - 700K, or purchase an "older boat" for 200K, and spend 1 or 200K putting in a new motor and new electronics, still saving 200 - 300K?

Thoughts?

 

[rwidman]

I'm considering my options at purchasing a 45 - 55 ft. trawler. I'm looking for opinions and things I may not have thought of. Here is my dilemma.

Do I purchase a "newer" boat with low hours for 600 - 700K, or purchase an "older boat" for 200K, and spend 1 or 200K putting in a new motor and new electronics, still saving 200 - 300K?

Thoughts?

It really depends on the boats that are available and that meet your needs/wants. I don't think you are going to save $300K buying an older boat and installing a new engine and electronics. It's still going to be an older boat and other systems may need repair or replacement.

 

[cardude01]

Questions:

1. Do you have the ability to do most of the work yourself? If not then I would say don't buy an older fixer upper.

2. Do you want to cruise or work on a boat?

Even newer boats will need some stuff, so don't forget to leave some money (20% of purchase price?) left over for that.

 

[ranger58sb]

Do I purchase a "newer" boat with low hours for 600 - 700K, or purchase an "older boat" for 200K, and spend 1 or 200K putting in a new motor and new electronics, still saving 200 - 300K?

Probably somewhere in the middle. Lots of older boats out there that aren't going to need a new engine. And lots of navigation is relatively easy with decent -- but not necessarily the latest and greatest -- electronics.

Find candidate boats that offer the features you need/want/like, then worry about the minor details.

-Chris

 

[Nomad Willy]

Could'a said ..

Newer v/s older BOAT.

 

[dhays]

It is a personal choice. I suggest finding the type of boat that will best suite your needs. If it is an older boat, go that direction.

Personally, I wanted a newer boat since I don't have the time or temperament to do all the rehab and maintenance required on an older boat. Even a newer boat has enough. If I had the money you are talking about to spend, I would look at boats around 5 years old. Lots of them out there in that age, size, and price range.

 

[CPseudonym]

If you want to save $2-300K buy a boat the current owner spent scandalous amounts of cash refurbishing/repowering. There out there but the trick is to not have feet of clay when you find one.

Also keep in mind the purchase price is nothing more than the ante to buy a seat at the table. Forget diesel fuel, boats run on cash.

 

[Baker]

What is your objective??? To work on a boat??? If you actually want to use the boat as a boat then I would suggest you go newer. I am a little hesitant to answer the question because it really isn't as simple as you make it seem. Bottom line, if you rehab an old boat you still have an old boat. Strictly from a resale value perspective, i think you will do better with the newe boat.

 

[BandB]

It's all based on you. Your skill. Your desire to do work on one. Your tolerance for problems and headaches. Your anxiousness toward getting on the water now, if not sooner. I would never have the patience or tolerance to go through the major rebuilds so many have here. Some love that work though and there are a few who like that part of boating more than getting on the water. I also don't have the skills. Probably have the least applicable skills of anyone here when it comes to a rebuild of an old boat.

The more the project, the more you can potentially save if you can do all the work yourself.

The more the project, the greater the odds it will take years if it ever gets completed and the longer the time until you'll actually be on the water.

 

[Bay Pelican]

New is not everything it's cut out to be. A brand new boat has all sorts of problems. A 10 year old boat has equipment that needs to be replaced, especially electronics. So the sweet spot on new is three years old to maybe seven.

 

[BandB]

New is not everything it's cut out to be. A brand new boat has all sorts of problems. A 10 year old boat has equipment that needs to be replaced, especially electronics. So the sweet spot on new is three years old to maybe seven.

A brand new boat from the right builder doesn't have all sorts of problems. Still I won't argue that financially three to seven years old makes more sense, even though we buy new.

 

[GFC]

For me it was an easy answer--I couldn't afford the type of boat I wanted if it was newer. When I bought my boat it was 15 years old, priced right and in good condition.

 

[dhays]

For me it was an easy answer--I couldn't afford the type of boat I wanted if it was newer. When I bought my boat it was 15 years old, priced right and in good condition.

Exactly. I bought a 6 year old boat. Well equipped, not too much ready to fail (other than batteries) but not too expensive for me.

TF represents a huge range of financial resources. I spend more money on my boat than many could ever dream of spending. OTOH, some of the boats represented here (new or used) will always be far far above what I could ever afford.

I am truly grateful for those that can and choose to spend money on new boats. It is only because of them that the rest of us have used boats to consider.

 

[drb1025]

Probably somewhere in the middle. Lots of older boats out there that aren't going to need a new engine. And lots of navigation is relatively easy with decent -- but not necessarily the latest and greatest -- electronics.

Find candidate boats that offer the features you need/want/like, then worry about the minor details.

-Chris

Ditto. I am the second owner of my boat, but I may as well be the first. The person that bought it new was unable to keep it for various reasons after only 80 hours of use. He agreed to sell it for a substantial discount to a new boat, after he installed many after market items-dinghy, electronics, etc. I have since seen similar boats come on the market under similar circumstances. Be patient and target the newer boat that has to be sold.

 

[gaston]

In a few years if you decide to sell you gota remember the younger the boat is the easier it will be to sell and just think you won't have to worry about whats going to break down next week

 

[Peter B]

Probably somewhere in the middle. Lots of older boats out there that aren't going to need a new engine. And lots of navigation is relatively easy with decent -- but not necessarily the latest and greatest -- electronics.

Find candidate boats that offer the features you need/want/like, then worry about the minor details.

-Chris

Like he said...

 

[FF]

A really older boat might be a better choice as the installed equipment may be of a higher quality.

Jabsco and Sureflow make nice bilge and FW pumps but not 1/10 the quality of say Galley made.

Same with toilets , the older loud unit may just need a kit installed , for another decade of service.

The older boat with sound engine and fine equipment might only need an interior freshening and what ever electronic toys you can not live with out.

Autopilot quality will be easy to spot KISS!

I always look at the windlass quality and the deck method of stowing ground tackle, to cull the "built to be used: , from the "built to play cottage".

Just avoid the teal deck overlays and shoot for the highest quality builder you can find.

 

[bayview]

older boats that were somebody's baby are often a great deal. They are out thee and don't sell for much more than average junk.

 

[Art]

If you want to save $2-300K buy a boat the current owner spent scandalous amounts of cash refurbishing/repowering. There out there but the trick is to not have feet of clay when you find one.

Also keep in mind the purchase price is nothing more than the ante to buy a seat at the table. Forget diesel fuel, boats run on cash.

1. $$100K charge cards - If too rich to care

2. $100 dollar bills - If not too wise an owner... and/or too rich to care

3. $50 dollar bills - Not too different two reasons than #2 above

4. $20 dollar bills - If smart and conservative

5. $10 dollar bills - But, plenty of em - if smart, conservative, and very frugal

 

[klee wyck]

This is a pretty classic question and one for which "to each his own" is the most apt answer I suppose.
My perspective: Simply put, quality and simplicity of design and materials are timeless if the caretaker holds up his end of the deal. Care is likely more about discipline than money though plenty of both are involved.
While I do not hold credentials as a long time big boater, I have owned and operated significant fleets of equipment on land and my experience there has been reflected on water so far and is also reflected in my choice of the two large boats I have purchased. Robust quality of build materials and design in the original build stands the test of time and use consistently. I run some very modern, very complex, and very expensive equipment with lots of electronics and no linkages and it is fun to run and impressive when it does. Often, it is not as long on reliability and longevity as some of the late 70s and eighties Caterpillar construction equipment that has logged over 25000 hours in some cases with original frame, block, and much of the auxiliaries.
With the way that the vast majority of us boat, I think there is almost no risk of "using up" a high quality boat if we take decent care of it no matter how old it is. Some of the modern marvels, perhaps not so much in my view. Though I may not feel that good about it, I expect I could "afford" either.

I expect both of the thirty year old boats that I own to outlive what remains of my boating years and though I won't give a care about it when my body temperature makes its final descent, my guess is they will still be worth what they are now if I do my part in the meantime. Some parts of boats are 'consumable'. That is as true of new boats as it is of old boats. The more of this 'stuff' that you have, the more you need to work on or replace. You may get a honeymoon with a new boat but the consumption is still occurring and the hourly or daily cost is the same.

 

[swampu]

I agree, my old link belt out works many newer excavators and it stuck on a barge, for ever. The old Detroit 's in my boat purr like a kitten. On the other hand I buy old because that's all I could afford.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

we rebuild the 8-71's on the tug about every 25-28,000 hours. several (we have 4) are going on 3rd or fourth rebuild on the same block. Screaming Detroit loud, Oil leaking son of a bitches, fuel guzzling muthas! When we cross the Atlantic in winter time I feel like hugging them! We did 4 transatlantics in 13 months. 1 was "crossing season". Reliable is reliable.

 

[MYTraveler]

A brand new boat from the right builder doesn't have all sorts of problems. Still I won't argue that financially three to seven years old makes more sense, even though we buy new.

"All sorts of problems" is relative, and I would agree that a new boat precludes lots of problems that are only possible with used equipment, but from what I have seen, both personally and vicariously, a new boat will have plenty of problems early in its life until everything is thoroughly tested and configured. The best example that of which I have personal knowledge is a "new" 215', $100M boat built by a very highly regarded builder, that lost all propulsion (maybe not thrusters) leaving a marina about 2 months (and 1,000 nm) after delivery.

Though hard to find, I think the optimal intersection of age, reliability and value is a 1-3 year old boat build for and used by a knowledgeable owner.

 

[BandB]

"All sorts of problems" is relative, and I would agree that a new boat precludes lots of problems that are only possible with used equipment, but from what I have seen, both personally and vicariously, a new boat will have plenty of problems early in its life until everything is thoroughly tested and configured. The best example that of which I have personal knowledge is a "new" 215', $100M boat built by a very highly regarded builder, that lost all propulsion (maybe not thrusters) leaving a marina about 2 months (and 1,000 nm) after delivery.

Though hard to find, I think the optimal intersection of age, reliability and value is a 1-3 year old boat build for and used by a knowledgeable owner.

Well, speaking from my experience, every new boat I've purchased has been delivered problem free. We've never lost propulsion or any major equipment. I've taken extended shakedown cruises and have very little on our list upon completion. I recognize problems on new deliveries are common, just not my experience. We do get surveys as well on new boats.

 

[psneeld]

Been a new boat "acceptance" captain, going over new boats with new owners on delivery day and couldn't event leave the slip in some...and an assistance tower who has towed many a boat on its maiden voyage....

LOTS of new boats have issues.

From day one..all the way through their warranty.

Usually less issues per boat than maybe an older boat maintained in only an OK condition, but certainly aren't all problem free for the expected life of all systems.

 

[Codger2]

.......but from what I have seen, both personally and vicariously, a new boat will have plenty of problems early in its life until everything is thoroughly tested and configured.

That pretty much sums up my experience with a brand new 2000 Tiara 35 Open. It was 6 months before I felt completely confident that all issues were addressed properly. I will never buy a new boat again! I'll let the first owner take the depreciation bath and face all the commissioning problems.

This boat was 9 years old when I bought it (about 14 months ago) & I'm still
fixing stuff.

 

[BandB]

LOTS of new boats have issues.

From day one..all the way through their warranty.
.

And beyond. I agree. Only disagreed with the general statement implying all new boats would have issues. Some brands are delivered in very good shape. I've seen it on all types of boats and all sizes. There was one multi brand boat dealer on the lake and you could depend on his having major issues. Some of the things they did were amazing. When I was a kid they rigged the steering on a runabout backwards so when you turned the wheel left, the boat turned right. The purchaser called them around noon, said he loved the boat, just took him awhile to get use to the steering. The dealer told him to immediately stop using it and bring it in. He said, "We're having too much fun. I'll bring it in Monday morning." The dealer reiterated over and over not to use it. Well, didn't have to worry about bringing it in Monday as going under a bridge, he turned the wrong way and is was last seen sinking there.

 

[High Wire]

An older boat is a LOT of work. If you are not planning to do most of it yourself, I'd go newer.

 

[Art]

There are good and not so good boats... be they new or used.


Keen eye and substantial marine knowledge is needed to ascertain the difference; usually gained via many years of living the dream!


Thus, marine surveyors exist if oneself is not capable to understand quality/condition levels... at least at first blush.


Happy Boat-Shopping Daze! - Art

 

[Nomad Willy]

New boats do have problems.
I worked at Uniflite before the blisters (never heard of them then) and an old timer in the shop told me the boats more often than not suffer more use and abuse during construction than they do after.
My last job there was rearranging and relocating tanks, generators .... pretty much everything that was'nt light so as to get the boat to float at rest w/o a list. Basically they were stock boats and basically all custom builds. No boat had all the same stuff. Many installs had to be partly or even completely removed to make room for other installs. All this thrashing about, drilling, grinding, overlaying, buffing ect was a lot of wear and tear. Had a crew of women that went from boat to boat cleaning up after mechanics, electricians, layup people ect. Hard to imagine a boat coming out the door where everything worked properly and was installed correctly ect.

And Uniflite was one of the best boats built in the NW at that time. Art and some others remember that. During the day I remember an aircraft carrier was found to have a machine shop that got all sealed up and nobody knew it existed until some sailor got real curious (decades later) about what was behind a bulkhead. I'm sure there were bilge pumps glassed in totally and were never seen ... only heard. I'm sure they do better now but new cars a few decades ago on average had 23 things wrong w them.

But if I had the money I'd buy a new boat.