Newer Mainship vs Older Grand Banks
- Thread starter KalaKai
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2007
- Messages
- 7,331
- Location
- Texas
- Vessel Name
- Floatsome & Jetsome
- Vessel Make
- Meridian 411
It is all a matter of what you want to do. If you enjoy boating and not maintaining, then go for the Mainship. If you like doing the tedious work of maintaining teak, then go for the GB....or pay somebody a shitload of money to keep it for you.
I personally would go with the Mainship. Simply because it is newer. Like everyone has said, components are basically the same and those components will be newer on the Mainship. There will likely be better newer engines on it as well....generator too. The Mainship will have more space. You own a Hunter. Would you have preferred an older Hans Christian?? That is pretty much what we are talking here. The engineering on the Mainship will be straight forward and in accordance with ABYC and NMMA. While some will argue those are lacking and sometimes even wrong, you at least know what you are dealing with and what standard it was built to. I have no clue of GB bends to those standards but I know other Asian manufacturers do not. And lastly, window and door leaks. There is nothing that screws up a pretty boat more than this. I honestly do not know of it is a big issue with GB....but I have understood why supposedly inferior American builders can make a window that does not leak and Asian boat builders cannot.
Blah blah blah....good luck!!! And certainly exciting times ahead. make sure the wife is happy...but I'm sure you already knew that!!!
I personally would go with the Mainship. Simply because it is newer. Like everyone has said, components are basically the same and those components will be newer on the Mainship. There will likely be better newer engines on it as well....generator too. The Mainship will have more space. You own a Hunter. Would you have preferred an older Hans Christian?? That is pretty much what we are talking here. The engineering on the Mainship will be straight forward and in accordance with ABYC and NMMA. While some will argue those are lacking and sometimes even wrong, you at least know what you are dealing with and what standard it was built to. I have no clue of GB bends to those standards but I know other Asian manufacturers do not. And lastly, window and door leaks. There is nothing that screws up a pretty boat more than this. I honestly do not know of it is a big issue with GB....but I have understood why supposedly inferior American builders can make a window that does not leak and Asian boat builders cannot.
Blah blah blah....good luck!!! And certainly exciting times ahead. make sure the wife is happy...but I'm sure you already knew that!!!
cappy208
Guru
From my $.02. If you either have about a 3k a year varnish budget or a whole lot of free time go GB. I did the opposite. My boat has 4 pieces of bright work and the aft door to keep up with. The interior teak is simply oiled. I hate doing bright work. And I won't pay a yard to do it either.
There's a saying when you walk down into a Taiwan boat that has been closed up for a while. If it smells like a rainforest (damp, pungent and loamy) walk away. The teak decks leak. If they haven't started to leak.... They will. The wood they use in the decks soaks up the leaks and they rot. Teak decks look awesome. But they are a PITA to maintain. If you're lucky you may find an older boat that has been maintained, and the teak hasn't started to lift.....yet. It seems that teak decks last about 20 years 'till they start popping screws. You look up on the overhead for yellow stains. (Similar to nicotine drips). Or look for the attempts to wipe them off. Under the decks, in lockers, under aft cockpit deck.
BTW. Congrats on recovery! Being a recovering WAFI myself it is a more genteel way to go.
There's a saying when you walk down into a Taiwan boat that has been closed up for a while. If it smells like a rainforest (damp, pungent and loamy) walk away. The teak decks leak. If they haven't started to leak.... They will. The wood they use in the decks soaks up the leaks and they rot. Teak decks look awesome. But they are a PITA to maintain. If you're lucky you may find an older boat that has been maintained, and the teak hasn't started to lift.....yet. It seems that teak decks last about 20 years 'till they start popping screws. You look up on the overhead for yellow stains. (Similar to nicotine drips). Or look for the attempts to wipe them off. Under the decks, in lockers, under aft cockpit deck.
BTW. Congrats on recovery! Being a recovering WAFI myself it is a more genteel way to go.
If a GB deck only lasts 20 years then it's the fault of the owner. Our 1973 boat has its original deck and while it certainly takes maintenance to keep it in proper condition, the maintenance techniques aren't rocket science,and the deck should go a lot more years. Teak decks don't start popping screws, by the way. They fail at the seams and with deck plugs starting to go missing. Both of which are easily remedied if one knows how to do it and has the time to do it.
The teak planking on a GB, even the older ones like ours, generally will not lift because the bedding compound that was used to bed the planks also has an adhesive component to it. Anyone who has removed the teak decking from a fiberglass GB can attest to the tenacity with which the planks adhere to the subdeck even after all the screws have been removed. In fact the tenacity of the planks is so great that the teak planks generally break when it's pried up
Whether or not this is the case with other makes with similar deck construction I have no idea.
With regards to a GB's handling, the Kenneth Smith designed hull used by all GBs except the newest models handles very well except in a following sea of any substance. Like all flat-transomed, shallow-draft-at-the-stern hulls, the boat gets shoved around a lot by the waves which, unless one has a higher powered model that can outrun the them, outrun the boat.
So with following or quartering waves of three feet or more, the boat can be a handful at the wheel. Some autopilots can keep up with it, some can't. The boaters we know with this type of boat with autopilots generally turn them off under these conditions (unless they can outrun the waves) because while an autopilot can react, it can't anticipate.
We have found that anticipation is the key to holding a constant course in following waves with our boat. The waves have a rhythm and the boat has inertia. Once one picks up on the rhythm and has a feel for the boat's inertia it actually becomes quite easy to start correcting before the need for correction becomes obvious which is the only way to ensure that that the boat maintains a constant heading and the driver isn't constantly chasing the boat and over-correcting, which makes the situation even worse.
It's a bit like driving a semi-tractor and trailer, where the tractor needs to start being steered into a curve a wee bit before the curve is actually reached. (I was taught this by a log truck driver on the Olympic Peninsula many years ago.)
The teak planking on a GB, even the older ones like ours, generally will not lift because the bedding compound that was used to bed the planks also has an adhesive component to it. Anyone who has removed the teak decking from a fiberglass GB can attest to the tenacity with which the planks adhere to the subdeck even after all the screws have been removed. In fact the tenacity of the planks is so great that the teak planks generally break when it's pried up
Whether or not this is the case with other makes with similar deck construction I have no idea.
With regards to a GB's handling, the Kenneth Smith designed hull used by all GBs except the newest models handles very well except in a following sea of any substance. Like all flat-transomed, shallow-draft-at-the-stern hulls, the boat gets shoved around a lot by the waves which, unless one has a higher powered model that can outrun the them, outrun the boat.
So with following or quartering waves of three feet or more, the boat can be a handful at the wheel. Some autopilots can keep up with it, some can't. The boaters we know with this type of boat with autopilots generally turn them off under these conditions (unless they can outrun the waves) because while an autopilot can react, it can't anticipate.
We have found that anticipation is the key to holding a constant course in following waves with our boat. The waves have a rhythm and the boat has inertia. Once one picks up on the rhythm and has a feel for the boat's inertia it actually becomes quite easy to start correcting before the need for correction becomes obvious which is the only way to ensure that that the boat maintains a constant heading and the driver isn't constantly chasing the boat and over-correcting, which makes the situation even worse.
It's a bit like driving a semi-tractor and trailer, where the tractor needs to start being steered into a curve a wee bit before the curve is actually reached. (I was taught this by a log truck driver on the Olympic Peninsula many years ago.)
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cappy208
Guru
@Marin. I believe there have been several changes in the way the decks were made on GBs. Your vintage should be a built up deck, with teak laid over deck beams.
The OP asked about 2000's. They use the fiberglass deck mold with teak strips laid down on top, bedded, screwed, phenoseamsealed, and bunged. Those are the ones I was referring to. In the process of looking at trawlers, one of the GBs I found (a 1992) with glass deck, with teak overlaid on that. About half was lifted. The seams were fine. The bedding had given way, and entire sections were lifted by water, freeze, expand, lift, freeze, lift. I could get my fingertips under the edge. I couldn't fathom paying 100,000 for a 36 that needed (in my estimation) a 20,000 deck job.
It may have been that that particular boat had been 'repaired'. But I left as soon as I smelled the rotten smell inside.
The OP asked about 2000's. They use the fiberglass deck mold with teak strips laid down on top, bedded, screwed, phenoseamsealed, and bunged. Those are the ones I was referring to. In the process of looking at trawlers, one of the GBs I found (a 1992) with glass deck, with teak overlaid on that. About half was lifted. The seams were fine. The bedding had given way, and entire sections were lifted by water, freeze, expand, lift, freeze, lift. I could get my fingertips under the edge. I couldn't fathom paying 100,000 for a 36 that needed (in my estimation) a 20,000 deck job.
It may have been that that particular boat had been 'repaired'. But I left as soon as I smelled the rotten smell inside.
johnma
Guru
The only thing i have to add to this conversation is that both Hunter and Mainship are (were) both Luhrs companies. Fit and finish for all Luhrs boats (Luhrs; Mainship; Hunter and Silverton is the same throughout the line. Hardware, hatches, head, galley, etc all came from the same vendors (economics of scale). If you were happy with the quality of your hunter you will be happy with the quality of the Mainship.
John
2003 MS390
John
2003 MS390
That is incorrect. Fiberglass GBs do not have a solid glass deck and never did (I don't know about the currently manufactured models). We have one of the first batch of fiberglass GBs made and its deck is constructed exactly the same as the newer ones. There is a subdeck "sandwich" of fiberglass-marine ply-fiberglass with the layer of glass on top of the plywood about twice as thick as the fiberglass layer under the plywood. Deck beams were used on wood GBs, not on fiberglass GBs.
The deck planks are bedded and screwed to the subdeck using about 20 million screws with teak plugs on top of them.
Later GBs, by which I mean early to mid 2000s give or take, have teak decking that is glued to the fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass subdeck sandwich instead of being screwed to it. This practice was also adapted by higher-end manufacturers like Fleming, custom yacht makers, etc. Much better arrangement as there are no screws penetrating what otherwise is a watertight subdeck (other than the fasteners used for hardware mounted on the deck; cleats, stanchions, etc.).
This same subdeck construction was used in most of the boats similar to GBs--- CHB, Puget Trawler, Island Gypsy etc. They may have varied in material quality and thickness, but the configuration is the same.
This type of subdeck (including GB"s) can develop soft spots from moisture getting down under the decking, usually between the plank groove edges and seams that have pulled away from the wood on one side or the other of the groove. Once there, the moisture can then migrate down into the plywood core of the subdeck along the deck screws which penetrate through the upper layer of fiberglass and into the wood core. The moisture can then start the core to rotting.
The prevention of this is to regularly inspect the deck seams and replace any which have started to separate. This can be difficult to see so a pretty close inspection is required. Replacing a seam or a section of a seam is not rocket science and once one learns the proper technique and materials to use is actually quite easy.
This is one reason a teak deck should always be washed with salt water, not fresh. If there are leaks in the seams, deck hardware, etc. that let moisture into the subdeck core, the salt water is less encouraging of the formation of rot than fresh water. Of course, if it rains on the deck then it will be fresh water getting down into the core......
Depending on how they were put in the deck screws can penetrate all the way through the subdeck in which case moisture can penetrate all the way through to the inside of the boat if it gets under the planks. If the subdeck core starts to rot, the moisture passing down alongside the screw and into the interior of the boat will carry the evidence of the rot into the boat, hence the telltale brown stains and rot smell.
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FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"This is one reason a teak deck should always be washed with salt water, not fresh. If there are leaks in the seams, deck hardware, etc. that let moisture into the subdeck core, the salt water is less encouraging of the formation of rot than fresh water"
The reason saltwater seems to help is rot exists in a limited range of moisture.
Nice and dry , no rot, but if there is a leak, the salts ability to hold water , and keep it too wet for the rot to continue is salts bonus.
Wooden fishing boats were usually constructed with the lowest cost materials , so on the many feast days (no fishing) would toss salt and pails of water into the boat in an attempt to keep it wet enough.
This was hoped to keep the wood wet enough not to begin to dry out and pass thru the rot moisture range.
For any Chinese Composite , buried plywood, a sked of replacing the sealant at all fittings ,cleats, stanchions , windlass, fuel fill BEFORE they fail and leak might be good policy.
The reason saltwater seems to help is rot exists in a limited range of moisture.
Nice and dry , no rot, but if there is a leak, the salts ability to hold water , and keep it too wet for the rot to continue is salts bonus.
Wooden fishing boats were usually constructed with the lowest cost materials , so on the many feast days (no fishing) would toss salt and pails of water into the boat in an attempt to keep it wet enough.
This was hoped to keep the wood wet enough not to begin to dry out and pass thru the rot moisture range.
For any Chinese Composite , buried plywood, a sked of replacing the sealant at all fittings ,cleats, stanchions , windlass, fuel fill BEFORE they fail and leak might be good policy.
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