A new use for your bow eye.....

[dhays]

Many of our boats don't have bow eyes and many that do are hard to reach from the deck.

Personally, I want to just be able to drop the anchor, cleat the rode, set the anchor and be done with it. Not make anchoring into a major project.

I assume you have a combination rode then? I have all chain, so I like to have a bridle.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Lead me to one question... Usually what are you using your bow eye for? I have one on my boat and never used it yet.

Mostly for towing Bayliners back to port?!

 

[markpierce]

Had a boat with a bow eye. Only used the eye to recover the boat onto the trailer at the boat ramp.

 

[Simi 60]

We are 12ft off the water and never go into busy or tight anchorages.
The nearest anchored boat to us at present would be 2.5 miles away.
Mind you, come the weekend, if its calm it'll get busy here but we'll head out to secret spot #73 so as to be by ourselves away from the short scopers and to close anchorers.
We are in 15ft of water + 12 to deck with close on 200ft out in calm conditions.
Chain doesn't work when left in the locker.

 

[Peter B]

Scope is properly measured from the point of attachment on the boat and not the waterline. If you let out 5 times the depth plus the height of the roller above the water, you will be using less than 5:1 scope. That may be just fine for your situation, but it's not 5:1 scope. If you were in 10' of water and 5' bow height then you'd have 55' feet instead of 75'. That would be about 3.7:1 rather than 5:1 scope.

Richard

No dispute that what you, and the article from AC say, is mathematically correct, but what would be interesting is an informal poll as to what other folk actually do. Do they let out literally 5 x the depth plus height above waterline for a 5:1 scope, or do they let out 5 x the depth and then add the height to the waterline, which would be less then 5:1, but probably sufficient in most situations..?

 

[Simi 60]

I always do high water depth + 12ft to deck x 5 or more.

 

[Benthic2]

Doesn't it depend on conditions, timing etc ? If I was leaving the boat and a blow was predicted, I'd let out a lot more than if I stopped for a quick dip and a bite on a lovely afternoon.

 

[Peter B]

I always do high water depth + 12ft to deck x 5 or more.

Yes, but you also said...

"We are 12ft off the water and never go into busy or tight anchorages.
The nearest anchored boat to us at present would be 2.5 miles away.
Mind you, come the weekend, if its calm it'll get busy here but we'll head out to secret spot #73 so as to be by ourselves away from the short scopers and to close anchorers. We are in 15ft of water + 12 to deck with close on 200ft out in calm conditions."

So, not entirely a typical cruiser, just sayin'...

 

[FF]

Two cautions about bow eye snubber lines.

Stuff happens, so the line should never be long enough to foul the propeller.

In the same vein a metal fastening device that could bang up the hull underway is a poor idea.

Two lines is probably as easy to install as one , so a very light (say 3/8) line can be used in modest weather and 1/2 or 5/8 line when the loading gets high enough to actually stretch heavier line.

 

[psneeld]

I always add height to roller to water depth to calculate scope, never thought people who actually calculated scope, didnt.

Then again, based on most anchorage scenes, I am not sure most people care about "scope", just "feel"......

I made up a nice card.....but most of the time it is easier just to do the math in my head and round up to the next 25 foot mark.

As to not anchoring near someone, not all of us have that luxury if we want any other desirable features of an anchorage.

Sure if there is no wind expected, no real worry is necessary, but not sure I will ever be comfy less than 3 to 1....places that crowded usually have moorings from what I have seen if it's the only harbor around.....

 

[cafesport]

Our current boat has one installed about 4' above our boot top. Our anchor roller is just over 13' to the waterline depending on fuel load. For the hurricanes that followed us north we rigged an additional snubber. Snubbers are always a pia and you never really need them until your chain catenary disappears but that is fairly easy to to figure out. When in doubt put one out.

Take a look at the snubber on this mega yacht.

The opposite of a bow eye. The chain actually leads up from his anchor pocket to a higher attachment point. My best guess is so that the owner can have a quite night on board (note: helicopter not there, no snubber at subsequent anchorages).

 

[twistedtree]

Tempting, but would prove useless and a pain in the arse to get back aboard if the wind piped up. I'd also be worried about it getting hung up on the many waterlogged trees we have on the bottom around here.

I can see their use however if you know the bottom is baby bum smooth and there's no chance of wind.

And i the bottom is baby bum smooth and there is no chance of wind, you wouldn't need it in the first place.

 

[rwidman]

I assume you have a combination rode then? I have all chain, so I like to have a bridle.

Yes I do. 30' of 5/16" chain, the rest line.

The real problem with Jeffery's e-mail, the original post and the responses is, everyone is thinking of his or hers own boat and their typical anchoring situation. Everybody's boat and everybody's anchoring situation is not like the other person's.

Some of us have relatively small boats with pulpits four or five feet above the water, some of us have mega yachts with pulpits fifteen feet above the water. Some of us have all chain rode, some of us have combination rode. Some of us have simple, "traditional" anchors, some have the latest high tech anchors. Some of us are anchoring in ten feet of water, some in fifty feet of water. And some typically anchor alone while some folk's typical anchorage resembles a boat condominium.

My point is, what might be best for one boat might not be best for the other person's boat.

I have a relatively small boat and a simple method of anchoring that seems to work well for me. Whenever I see or read about a different way of doing things, I am open to it but if it doesn't look like an improvement over what is already working well, I pass on it. That's what I am doing here.

 

[foggysail]

Our anchorages are not that crowded - I guess we're lucky. I wouldn't want to be jammed in with lots of other boats.

Richard

You're very fortunate. Around here anchoring seems to be getting tougher every season. Not only is the problem acerbated by an increase in the numbers attempting to anchor but the continuing shrinkage of anchorages caused by the infiltration of moorings.

I am old enough to remember times at Nantucket and Edgartown (Matha's Vineyard) harbors spending weeks on anchor. No more! No anchoring allowed in Edgartown and Nantucket is completely filled with moorings that price out at $75+/night.

 

[twistedtree]

I totally ignore our bow height. I'd guess it's 8-10' off the water line, but don't know for sure. And I have a tow eye, but currently don't use it.

Why?

Because none of this is an exact science. There is nothing sacred about 5:1 scope. You are not going pop loose just because you put out 4.5:1, and are not guaranteed to stay put because you put out 5.5:1.

Instead, I use less scope in deep water, and more scope in shallow water, calculated relative to depth at high water. If there is any doubt, I put out more chain. In fact, I pretty much always do just for good measure.

The reason is that all the chain in deep water anchoring is a LOT of weight, and except in extreme conditions, the catenary geometry does a superb job of maintaining a low pull angle on the anchor. In shallower water, there is less chain weight and you are relying more on the scope geometry rather than the catenary geometry. So more scope is required. But it's all freakin' guess work, so calculating to the last decimal point isn't really useful.

In deep water, the difference in calculated scope with vs without your bow height becomes small. 3:1 in 100' of water is 300' of chain. Including the bow height it becomes 2.7:1. If I felt I needed 300' of chain, I'd put out another 50' for good measure. Now I'm at 3.2:1, considering my bow height. So when in doubt, let out a little more chain and don't worry about it.

Now say, I'm in 20' of water. In that case I'd be looking for 5:1 or more scope. So I'd put out 100' of chain. Counting my bow, that's only 3.3:1. 100' of chain isn't much, so I'd put out another 25-50' regardless. If that brought me too close to other boats, I probably wouldn't be in there in the first place. Now I'm back up in the 4:1 to 5:1 range.

So I guess my point is two fold:

First, this is all guess work, and if you just round up and err on the side of more chain rather than less, it all works out in the wash. Putting out another 50' of chain is a good substitute for a lot of calculations.

Second, it definitely IS TRUE that a lower attach point is better than a higher attach point, but you need to consider it's significance in the grand scheme of things. There are a lot of hairs to split, and a lot of sights to see. Which would you rather do when cruising?

 

[foggysail]

Doesn't it depend on conditions, timing etc ? If I was leaving the boat and a blow was predicted, I'd let out a lot more than if I stopped for a quick dip and a bite on a lovely afternoon.

Again, location......location.......location


Crowded harbors prevent letting out greater scope.

 

[sunchaser]

I totally ignore our bow height. I'd guess it's 8-10' off the water line, but don't know for sure. And I have a tow eye, but currently don't use it.

Why?

Because none of this is an exact science. There is nothing sacred about 5:1 scope. You are not going pop loose just because you put out 4.5:1, and are not guaranteed to stay put because you put out 5.5:1.

Instead, I use less scope in deep water, and more scope in shallow water, calculated relative to depth at high water. If there is any doubt, I put out more chain. In fact, I pretty much always do just for good measure.

The reason is that all the chain in deep water anchoring is a LOT of weight, and except in extreme conditions, the catenary geometry does a superb job of maintaining a low pull angle on the anchor. In shallower water, there is less chain weight and you are relying more on the scope geometry rather than the catenary geometry. So more scope is required. But it's all freakin' guess work, so calculating to the last decimal point isn't really useful.

In deep water, the difference in calculated scope with vs without your bow height becomes small. 3:1 in 100' of water is 300' of chain. Including the bow height it becomes 2.7:1. If I felt I needed 300' of chain, I'd put out another 50' for good measure. Now I'm at 3.2:1, considering my bow height. So when in doubt, let out a little more chain and don't worry about it.

Now say, I'm in 20' of water. In that case I'd be looking for 5:1 or more scope. So I'd put out 100' of chain. Counting my bow, that's only 3.3:1. 100' of chain isn't much, so I'd put out another 25-50' regardless. If that brought me too close to other boats, I probably wouldn't be in there in the first place. Now I'm back up in the 4:1 to 5:1 range.

So I guess my point is two fold:

First, this is all guess work, and if you just round up and err on the side of more chain rather than less, it all works out in the wash. Putting out another 50' of chain is a good substitute for a lot of calculations.

Second, it definitely IS TRUE that a lower attach point is better than a higher attach point, but you need to consider it's significance in the grand scheme of things. There are a lot of hairs to split, and a lot of sights to see. Which would you rather do when cruising?

Well stated Peter and noted that your lower attachment point is seldom used.But for those that write treatises and make nice pictorials on anchoring your common sense approach is all too often ignored.

 

[Coastal Cruiser]

It is more accurate to use depth of the water plus the height the bow roller is above the waterline when calculating scope. If one wants 5:1 or 7:1 or 3:1 one gets an accurate scope, not sorta kinda maybe 5:1 or 7:1 or 3:1.

Maybe those who have commented about their anchor dragging did not include the bow roller height in their scope calculation ergo the anchor dragging and fire drill and fight with their snubber?

Deployment or retrieval of a line connected to a bow eye is no more work than attaching a snubber connected to deck hardware. Simply put, you are connecting or disconnecting a line to the chain.

And the math again. Using the bow eye in 15 feet of water I can achieve 5:1 with 40 feet less rode. That helps in a tight anchorage.

 

[psneeld]

Heck out of the last 20 nights at anchor, over half the times were in water as deep as my bow roller is high....

Absolutely it is as much art as science...and boat and Captain and anchor and bottom....

Now where was I?

Would I use a bow eye if I had one?....not sure...

Like many things in boating, till I try it, it's tough to determine whether it's worth it or not.

 

[Seevee]

The bow eye thing sure has some merit, and can certainly see some advantages without a lot of work. Sure, there's some effort involved, but rather small. Thanks for posting, OP.

 

[MurrayM]

And i the bottom is baby bum smooth and there is no chance of wind, you wouldn't need it in the first place.

Unless you were packed in tight with a bunch of other boats. Fortunately, not a problem where we boat so kind of a moot point. Just offering up a scenario where one might be useful...

 

[twistedtree]

One of the reasons I haven't rigged a snubber on our tow eye is the same reason I never use a snubber unless I'm expecting unsettled weather. It's a pain in the butt to rig.

To connect any snubber, whether from a tow eye or a deck cleat, it needs to be brought out around my bow rails, fed back in over the chain roller, connected to the chain, then tensioned while the chain is let out so the chain hook doesn't just fall off the chain, which is seems to always want to do. Part of this is because I have two side by side rollers, and want the snubber (assuming it's deck cleated) to run through one roller and the chain through the other so they don't foul each other.

One thing I have recently started using is a soft shackle, and I think it's an amazing tool for this use. It easily connects a snubber loop end to any chain link, and doesn't come apart during deployment of retrieval.

Has anyone else tried one?

 

[Britannia]

You're very fortunate. Around here anchoring seems to be getting tougher every season. Not only is the problem acerbated by an increase in the numbers attempting to anchor but the continuing shrinkage of anchorages caused by the infiltration of moorings.

I am old enough to remember times at Nantucket and Edgartown (Matha's Vineyard) harbors spending weeks on anchor. No more! No anchoring allowed in Edgartown and Nantucket is completely filled with moorings that price out at $75+/night.

Interesting - It's a shame anchorage space is being taken up with moorings. We only have one mooring field here in the SF Bay - at Ayala Cove, Angel Island right in the middle of the bay. I would say most boaters want to tie to a dock, fewer will take a mooring and the least number are prepared to anchor out over night. Even fewer will venture out of the Golden Gate.

So does my 100' minimum seem less "ridiculous" now that I've given the context?

Richard

 

[dhays]

I always add height to roller to water depth to calculate scope, never thought people who actually calculated scope, didnt.

Sure if there is no wind expected, no real worry is necessary, but not sure I will ever be comfy less than 3 to 1....places that crowded usually have moorings from what I have seen if it's the only harbor around.....

I include my bow height in my scope calculation as well. For me it is pretty easy. I have my depth sounder set to show water UNDER the keel. My draft is a about 4.5 feet and the sounder shows depth starting at 5 feet. My bow is about 5 feet above the water so I just add 10' to the displayed depth + the tide rise.

If I was anchoring now at one of my favorite spots in the South Sound, McMicken Island, and going to stay for a couple of days my thinking would go like this;
Depth sounder shows 15'. The lowest tide will be about 8' lower than it is now (7' under the keel) and the high tide will be about 4' higher than it is now. 15 + 10 + 5 = 30. Since we don't expect a lot of wind, I could easily use a 4-1 scope. However, I would put out 150' for 5-1 "just because".

Now, I know some boaters who would simply always put out 150' of chain at any depth 20' or lower then add 50' for every extra 10' of depth. So if the depth "is about 40 feet", they would just deploy 250' and call it good. That actually works out very close to what I end up with in this example and a lot simpler other than it doesn't account for the large tide changes that we can get. It still works great for almost all the conditions we normally encounter, and if blow is anticipated, Mr. Ballpark will look more carefully at their set just as I would.

I will still use the nautical geek approach myself. I frankly enjoy it and when I am on the boat I'm not in any great hurry.

 

[foggysail]

So does my 100' minimum seem less "ridiculous" now that I've given the context?

Richard

 

[Britannia]

 

[dhays]

One of the reasons I haven't rigged a snubber on our tow eye is the same reason I never use a snubber unless I'm expecting unsettled weather. It's a pain in the butt to rig.

To connect any snubber, whether from a tow eye or a deck cleat, it needs to be brought out around my bow rails, fed back in over the chain roller, connected to the chain, then tensioned while the chain is let out so the chain hook doesn't just fall off the chain, which is seems to always want to do. Part of this is because I have two side by side rollers, and want the snubber (assuming it's deck cleated) to run through one roller and the chain through the other so they don't foul each other.

One thing I have recently started using is a soft shackle, and I think it's an amazing tool for this use. It easily connects a snubber loop end to any chain link, and doesn't come apart during deployment of retrieval.

Has anyone else tried one?

I use a bridle. I have two lengths of 1/2" three strand each of which has a nylon thimble spliced on one end. I use soft shackle to attach those thimbles to the chain.

I am very fond of dyneema soft shackles. They are quick, easy to use, cheap to make, lightweight, don't bang things up, and are extremely strong. I use the design but Allen Edwards for "a better soft shackle". Easier to open and close than others.

 

[Peter B]

What's a soft shackle then..?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

What's a soft shackle then..?

Soft Shackle | How to tie the Soft Shackle | Splicing Knots

 

[cafesport]

I don't like them because you need to use two hands to set them and often three to retrieve them. When working on the end of the boat the bow tends to rise and fall twice the wave height. One hand for the ship as they say.