New Member- MT 49 Survey a disaster. Any advice

[refugio]

Bill, yes he had vinyl window installed, the apparently were RV windows and seem to work really well.

Sometimes thinking "outside the box" can be a good idea (e.g. a household refrigerator rather than a "marine" unit), but this is probably not one of those situations.

The first question to ask is why they were replaced. The old ones probably leaked - a lot. And then you have to ask, how was THAT problem rectified. If they used vinyl RV windows then I'm not expecting an appropriate remedy to the damage from leaking either.

 

[smitty477]

IMO before you travel great distances and before you engage professionals for a fee to look at boats it is only fair you get a certain amount of accurate information on the boat.
In a previous TF thread there was a set of questions/materials people ask for before they arrange to see the boats that they like. Here is my entry from that post as I cannot locate the post now....




I actually have an initial setof boat questions for when I call a boat for sale myself. YMMV but these haveworked well for me to sift out the ones I was more interested in pursuing...





- Are all those pictures ofyour boat?


- Are the machinery hours TT?


- Do you have a full list ofall items and options that convey with the boat?


- Are there maintenance recordsand are they up to date?


- Do you have a full history ofthe boat? Has it been damaged, partially submerged or seen heavy repairs?


- Can you send me 40-50 hi-resphotos of the boat including all of the machinery?


- What is your cruise and maxspeeds and at what rpm do you see those?


- What currently does not workon the boat?


- Where is the boat currentlyand in what condition is it stored?


- Do you own this boat or maybeis it under an LLC or partnership? Do you have 100% rights to sell the boatunencumbered?

 

[BandB]

FWIW - I know 2 of the three 47 Bayliner's in post #12 very well and the third a bit better than some.
There are reasons why they are listed for below similar boats and also why there are mostly pictures of bedspreads and counters and not engines and running gear.
If someone is really interested in one of them perhaps send me a PM and I will try and share what I know and some pictures of them they do not post.


If you are not looking for a project find a boat in great condition as it will save you time and aggravation in the long run.


Good luck with your search

They were shown only as examples. I have consistently encouraged him to find a reputable buyer's broker he can trust and communicate his needs to.

 

[boatpoker]

a whole bunch of articles on how to buy a boat ... not the usual broker type advice.

 

[RickyB]

Did you notice the 7700 engine hours?

 

[ksanders]

Agreed,

If I had a hundred grand to spend on a boat and did not want a project I'd be looking very close at a late model bayliner we 3988

 

[Shaunc]

Thanks boatpoker I will
Ron T I will give him a call.
I understand boats need work and I am not oposed to spending money on aboat. I just would rather spend the money on upgrades I want, not fixing some sloppy boat owners crap they should have taken care off.

Its not the 4 k that hurts it is that the boat was listed for 120k and worth half of that because of its condition and should have bee better represented.

I am no rush, so will take my time to find the right thing. I will get a buyers broker to assist

 

[Shaunc]

Ricky B, yes it is a concern and I should have a mechanical survey back in a week or so with a idea of how they shape UP.

 

[Shaunc]

Smitty477
Thanks for the advise. I will use that

 

[ksanders]

If I were looking for a defever 49 RPH, or similar vintage similar style boat like a Hatteras 48 LRC, I would start with the most expensive one list and work my way downwards in price until I found one I like.

My opinion, but I believe that the lower priced examples are generally lower priced for a reason.

If I had $150K to spend and wanted a 50' pilothouse I'd probably be inspecting Rons 4788 very closely.

 

[tcpip95]

Did you notice the 7700 engine hours?

Actually, you mean the 9,073 and 9,534 engine hours!

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/res...1278_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=924&h=693&t=1440712564000

 

[Shaunc]

Kevin
I will look into that boat. Thanks for the info

 

[Shaunc]

There is an entry in the log book that the engines were replaced at +- 2500 hrs

 

[ksanders]

Kevin
I will look into that boat. Thanks for the info

It's really hard to beat the Bayliner 4788 pilothouse for livability, and good construction at a reasonable price.

another great resource is blake Davis at bayliner4788.com

I have known blake for something like a decade and a half, and if I were buying a Bayliner or meridian pilothouse I would hire him in a heartbeat.

 

[Hawgwash]

blake Davis at bayliner4788.com

bayliner4788.com

It's a dud Kevin.

 

[BandB]

bayliner4788.com

It's a dud Kevin.

This is the site with the great history and information.

Bayliner and Meridian Pilothouses- HISTORY AND UPDATES | Blake Davis Yacht Brokerage Inc

 

[ksanders]

bayliner4788.com

It's a dud Kevin.

sorry

baylinerpilothouse.com

 

[mbevins]

Ricky B, yes it is a concern and I should have a mechanical survey back in a week or so with a idea of how they shape UP.

So just so I understand . After all the above posts on this subject your still considering this purchase?

 

[BandB]

So just so I understand . After all the above posts on this subject your still considering this purchase?

You're as astonished by that as I am? That's how huge mistakes are made. Our lust overrides our thoughts.

 

[Hawgwash]

You're as astonished by that as I am? That's how huge mistakes are made. Our lust overrides our thoughts.

When I saw that I thought maybe the mechanical was already done before he came here and he was "waiting" for it to arrive.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if he is just following orders.

 

[sunchaser]

ShaunC

Have you seen the boat in person and spent the better part of a day looking it over with a trusted boat smart friend? What is your previous boating experience? I compliment you on wanting a boat this size.

You've had a few hints here on what to look for, I add to it - dedicate yourself and your wife by spending many months walking the docks and looking at real live vessels. Go to a big boat show or two, look at some real boats and you'll be smarter for it.

A nearly 40 year old boat is a difficult starting point. Especially when Internet shopping. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Shaunc]

The mechanical survey is a bad as the initial survey and the engines have multiple fuel and oil leaks and are garbage

NO - I AM NOT MOVING FORWARD ON THIS PURCHASE

Thanks for everyone's input and advice and I am looking for another boat. I will be following up on some of the advice and posts .

 

[tcpip95]

It's too bad there isn't a listing of all surveys where unethical brokers/boat owners can be exposed. Shaunc just had to spend thousands of dollars because a broker/seller misled him (and many others no doubt) about the true condition of their listings.

They should be publicly called out when they do things like this.

 

[boatpoker]

While it will take a full day to survey a boat such as Shaunc is interested in, an experienced surveyor can find the major issues is 1/2hr. Choose your surveyor with care and pay him ($100 ?) to do a walk-thru and take a few photos of the stuff the brokers won't photograph before spending money on travel to see something that you'll walk from the minute you see it. This something I do several times a year for out of town buyers

 

[Shaunc]

I had a long talk to the broker yesterday about this and he is upset about this as I am.So I am going to give him some what of a pass.

He said we were the 1st full survey done on the boat and prior to that all he had was the sellers word. He felt there were some issues, but figured they would show up in a survey. Boy was he right, he just did not know to what extent.

The boat showed great and he priced it a what the seller was wanting. ( I do believe he should have had more influence on the pricing)

The broker has has had about 5-6 trips with airfares and hotel to the boat. The seller had the boat looking like crap at a sea trial that never happened, due the the mechanical surveyor not wanting to leave the dock due to the condition of the engines. You would think that he would have at least use soap and water to show it off its its best condition.

I could list for hours all the half ass repairs he did to "try" comply with the surveyors and insurance companies requirements and it has now come back to bite him. He has a great looking dock ornament.
The boat is a project boat. The engines need to come out for over hauling or be replaced and the all wiring needs to be replaced. There is about 60k in expense right there.
As mentioned earlier there are comparable boats in size, age and style for around 65-75k. So its worth 10k -15k if you don't take the hassle and unforeseen issues into account.
BTW, we also found 3 active hull leaks, you must see what crap his bilge is pumping overboard with all the water, oil and diesel in the bilge.

Peter showed me the original purchase listing and in 6 yrs the seller has done almost nothing but half ass repairs, zero preventative maintenance. Very little upgrades, he put in vinyla windows and covered the cushions. Wow!! what an investment, it must make the boat worth 60k more than it was bought for, despite having done 7000 miles on the loop.
He listed it for double what he paid for it.

The owner is still in denial. He told James Khudoo, the mechanical surveyor ,that how can there be issues, he just completed the loop.

James said all he had to do was pay attention to the signs of fuel and oil leaks everywhere and just because he was lucky enough to make it home doesn't mean the engines are not done for.

I have never had a boat that I have owned for that long that can be considered a appreciating asset.

 

[boatpoker]

I had a long talk to the broker yesterday about this and he is upset about this as I am.So I am going to give him some what of a pass.

He said we were the 1st full survey done on the boat and prior to that all he had was the sellers word. He felt there were some issues, but figured they would show up in a survey. Boy was he right, he just did not know to what extent.

The boat showed great and he priced it a what the seller was wanting. ( I do believe he should have had more influence on the pricing)

The broker has has had about 5-6 trips with airfares and hotel to the boat. The seller had the boat looking like crap at a sea trial that never happened, due the the mechanical surveyor not wanting to leave the dock due to the condition of the engines. You would think that he would have at least use soap and water to show it off its its best condition.

I could list for hours all the half ass repairs he did to "try" comply with the surveyors and insurance companies requirements and it has now come back to bite him. He has a great looking dock ornament.
The boat is a project boat. The engines need to come out for over hauling or be replaced and the all wiring needs to be replaced. There is about 60k in expense right there.
As mentioned earlier there are comparable boats in size, age and style for around 65-75k. So its worth 10k -15k if you don't take the hassle and unforeseen issues into account.
BTW, we also found 3 active hull leaks, you must see what crap his bilge is pumping overboard with all the water, oil and diesel in the bilge.

Peter showed me the original purchase listing and in 6 yrs the seller has done almost nothing but half ass repairs, zero preventative maintenance. Very little upgrades, he put in vinyla windows and covered the cushions. Wow!! what an investment, it must make the boat worth 60k more than it was bought for, despite having done 7000 miles on the loop.
He listed it for double what he paid for it.

The owner is still in denial. He told James Khudoo, the mechanical surveyor ,that how can there be issues, he just completed the loop.

James said all he had to do was pay attention to the signs of fuel and oil leaks everywhere and just because he was lucky enough to make it home doesn't mean the engines are not done for.

I have never had a boat that I have owned for that long that can be considered a appreciating asset.

You either did your homework or got very lucky. James and Peter, two of the very best.

 

[Shaunc]

Boatpoker
I am glad to say I did my homework, You dont get that lucky. If I did I would have won the powerball. lol

 

[Ron T]

How is your broker qualified to sell vessels if he can't do a walk thru himself and spot t trend in the upkeep and condition of the vessel? He most likely sells boats on week ends and aluminum siding on week days. Don't give him a pass. Just say good by, period, otherwise your the fool. Don't let him sucker you twice. And do not be in a hurry. I have told customers that I would take my motherinlaw out in a vessel I had surveyed and they still purchased it and then a year later are trying to sell at half the price.

 

[smitty477]

"Peter showed me the original purchase listing and in 6 yrs the seller has done almost nothing but half ass repairs, zero preventative maintenance. Very little upgrades, he put in vinyla windows and covered the cushions. Wow!! what an investment, it must make the boat worth 60k more than it was bought for, despite having done 7000 miles on the loop.
He listed it for double what he paid for it."


Then I can guess that the broker on the boat knew this before and during the time you were working to get information on this boat.
This is a quote from this boats brokers listing page.....


"Michael Martin is a licensed and bonded yacht broker with Curtis Stokes & Associates, Inc. based in Cleveland, OH and specializing in worldwide yacht sales. Michael offers professional, honest, discreet and personal assistance to a select group of clients and customers worldwide."

 

[bligh]

Boatpoker
I am glad to say I did my homework, You dont get that lucky. If I did I would have won the powerball. lol

Hey, I feel for you. Going through this process for the first time is a learning experience. Hopefully you are more educated about the process now and the money you spent on this endeavor has left you smarter and more capable of avoiding a situation like this in the future.

I was looking at a boat about 400 miles away. The broker told me it was ready to cruise. I flew down there and found a boat in miserable shape and partially dis-assembled. It was also infested with termites! I was dumbfounded that he broker misled me like that.