New Florida anchoring survey

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I think calling this a charade is off base. Let's go back a moment to how this all started. Communities decided on their own to put in restrictions. The FWC stepped in and asserted the law that the state has control and so the FWC stopped some local ordinances that would have been very anti-anchoring and cruising. They have also had many representatives trying to push through very restrictive laws. To this point they've done two things. First they put in the pilot program in select locations to test some possibilities. No law changes for the state, just a pilot to see. Second they have said they will look at revised state laws. The survey isn't anti boater. It's simply ideas that various sides have presented and getting a perspective of how the public views it. To their credit they didn't attempt to limit input to Florida residents either. It's not like a vote, it's getting opinion and responses. There has to be some framework to set what cities can or can't do and what is reasonable. Now the word "reasonable" has different definitions for us all. I'm both a boater and a waterfront homeowner. I suspect many homeowners would strongly disagree with some of my answers on the survey and many boaters would strongly disagree with others. That is all fine. But the FWC is still addressing what started the entire issue and that is certain communities wanting to move on their own. The FWC has done several things to try to gather opinions. If they didn't do so, it might all fall in the hands of some state representatives with pretty radical views.

I look forward to seeing the results because among other things it might help us find out how many people take the extreme views. Is it a lot or is it just that the ones who do are very loud and in positions to push for action? Ultimately, like most laws and rules there will be a compromise. I have no idea what that will be. But I personally think we're all better off with the FWC attempting to handle this with study and opinions than cities going out on their own or the state legislature passing something very disturbing. Holding meetings and distributing surveys just doesn't impress me as something offensive. I'd say most of the time government moves without doing either.

From all I see Florida remains a friendly place for boaters with a choice of anchorages, moorings, and marinas.

As an example of how individual's form views, FLIBS just ended and I know people in my neighborhood wanting it eliminated because our street is congested for a few days. I'm sure one of them will end up going to the city council to complain. Won't get anywhere. Oh and FLIBS has been around for years while they just bought their home a year ago.
 
There has to be some framework to set what cities can or can't do and what is reasonable.

The cities have ZERO to say about Navigation in Federal Waters , the states are almost as limited .

Only exceptions I know are >Queen Ann Grants< that pre date the US formation.
 
But the FWC is still addressing what started the entire issue and that is certain communities wanting to move on their own. The FWC has done several things to try to gather opinions. If they didn't do so, it might all fall in the hands of some state representatives with pretty radical views.

That's a well-thought out and practical answer, given local political realities.

But the question isn't which set of anti-boater laws get implemented.

The question is, does the State of Florida, or do the local communities, or even the local condo associations or individual homeowners, have the right to overrule the long-standing right of navigation?

Laws against derelicts and such are reasonable. But they're already on the books. They just need to be enforced.

Laws revoking rights that have belonged to boaters since before the founding of this country, and are still in force today, are not reasonable, regardless of the political situation any particular state official finds him/herself in.
 
BandB's post was indeed well thought out. He brings a unique perspective to this issue because he is both a waterfront landowner and boater.

Ignoring this issue and standing behind long ago laws established well before recreational boating became popular and our countries coast line was filled with expensive waterfront homes will not make the issue go away. There are way more of them than us and they have way more money!

Compromise is the name of the game and I think the FWC due to their mission of regulation and supporting water activities puts them somewhat on our side.

There are only 2 concerns I have as it relates to the questionnaire. The FWC has proposed a limit as to how far one can anchor from a house. This would close some anchorages depending on what distance they use. But I do believe some compromise is needed here. I can see the argument that a waterfront landowner may not want a boat anchored inches from his dock or beach. The other issue which I definitely do not want to be implemented is allowing local govt's to establish their own anchoring limits.

The other proposals like a 60 day limit and not anchoring near a boat ramp, marina or other marine facility I have no problem with.
 
Wow...is that guy out of touch....a waterway too anchored up for second generation water ski instruction? Like the whole world hasn't changed a bit from when we were kids?

With mentality like that...I see the issue as slanted in top officials eyes already.

I've reposted "post #2" as I stand by it and the first to call out "biased" but not necessarily a "charade" in the thread.

Having been high enough in an administrative organization that helped shape legislation, large scale legislation, if there is even the slightest bias by either high administrative officials or within a political staff.....those biasis can ultimately sway legislation.

Again, not necessarily a charade....but the tone of that lead in video...again as I said before...didn't give me warm and fuzzies.


Plus...didn't the state only REALLY step in only AFTER the big legal issue by the guy on the West coast of Fl where the courts waded in on the issue?????
 
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Plus...didn't the state only REALLY step in only AFTER the big legal issue by the guy on the West coast of Fl where the courts waded in on the issue?????

Yes I think you're right, but why would the courts step in until a law is challenged?

The issue at that time is do local govt's have a right to supersede state or federal laws. I believe they do is some cases but in this case the courts ruled in favor of the boater. But IMHO this is the most important question still to be answered.
 
completed survey.
 
I think calling this a charade is off base.


As an example of how individual's form views, FLIBS just ended and I know people in my neighborhood wanting it eliminated because our street is congested for a few days. I'm sure one of them will end up going to the city council to complain. Won't get anywhere. Oh and FLIBS has been around for years while they just bought their home a year ago.

Well, I hope it is not a charade. However, my 20+ years of experience serving on government boards and committees makes me believe that it is probably the case. Boaters are a minority, and anti-anchoring, waterfront homeowners are a large voting block. This and the tone of the video is a bad sign of where this could be going. Most of the people who anchor are not even Florida voters.

Newbies many times are anti anything. I once sold a new home in a new neighborhood to a couple from Vancouver, BC. The next Tuesday evening they appeared at a no growth meeting for the township. Go figure. I guess they got theirs. Oh yeah, they later bought a new condo from me in the same township.

FLIBS dumps a load of cash into the economy. I can't see the city walking away from that.

The way I see it, the anchoring rights crowd is in for some expensive litigation to protect those rights.
 
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This conversation brings up an issue that I've never fully understood. Our founding fathers gave individual states wide latitude to impose laws on their populations. But when can the federal govt supersede those laws. Case in point: Abortion

Before Roe vs Wade, I believe many states outlawed abortion. So under what conditions can the feds supersede state laws, like on the abortion issue.

Please I use the abortion issue as an example not one to be debated.
 
My point about the court interceding was more about the Florida enforcers were following local requests not state or federal laws/guidelines.....like most would...residents over travelers or vagrants.

I would be more tempted to go with the Feds only being able to regulate anchoring on certain waters, those necessary for safe through navigation of Florida, supporting interstate issues. In that case it would be like federal regulations trumping state or local on the interstate road system.
 
The homeowners use the derelict boats as an argument to limit anchoring and "preserve their view".

One approach -solve the derelict boat problem = it can be done if the state wants to get tough with the boat owners - then if a home owner wants to limit anchoring tell him he has to pay tax on the water area reserved for his view. Area reserved would be taxed based on the square footage tax bill for his house. Let him pay $30,000 plus per year and the view won't be worth it.
 
Personally I think the derelict argument is a bit over blown. Laws are in place to deal with it. Funds to enforce it however are lacking. And that's the problem.
 
Personally I think the derelict argument is a bit over blown. Laws are in place to deal with it. Funds to enforce it however are lacking. And that's the problem.

Wonder where the funds will come from to enforce anchoring restrictions if enacted? Let me guess....new taxes on boaters.
 
Wonder where the funds will come from to enforce anchoring restrictions if enacted? Let me guess....new taxes on boaters.

I hope not, but I would not be against some of our registration fees going to remove derelict boats.

Again I think derelict boats are overblown and an argument used by some waterfront land owners to enhance their position on restricting anchoring.

As I understand the FL law governing derelict boats, once a boat has been designated derelict or abandoned, the FWC places a sticker on the boat notifying everyone of it's status. After 60 days it can be removed. If a designated boat is an eye sore then presumably a landowner can have the boat removed, through probably at his own expense.
 
yet very little of the total water area is actually NDZs...
Do you have a link or anything g that shows where states asked for their entire coasts to be NDZs? Like many requests in government...ask for all if you want half.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. A quick Google session turned up This link showing the entire coasts of NH, MA, RI and CT covered by a NDZ:
nodischarge-ne.jpg


I'm guessing the same thing will happen with FL "no anchoring" zones if allowed.
 
Seems to me this is very much a location by location issue. What applies to a crowded anchorage in Miami may not apply to a large bayou in north Florida. However, there is no way that I want local government in the decision making position. Too many good friends and bubas involved locally that will dictate laws/rules. If it has to happen, and that is a big question, it will at least minimize the friends etc influences with the FWC. Just my views....
 
Personally I think the derelict argument is a bit over blown. Laws are in place to deal with it. Funds to enforce it however are lacking. And that's the problem.

The states boat registration rules state if I'm in state for 90 days that the $200.00 +/- fee is used to remove derelict boats. I personally have never seen a derelict boat in a "rich" homeowners view. But have seen too many under loud bridges and poorer parts of towns.

http://m.myfwc.com/boating/waterway/reporting/
 
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One thing is clear by law. The state does have the right to regulate. Also, there is nothing that gives local governments any rights but the FWC does want to reinforce limits on their rights. The state clearly has the authority in this case to limit local governments.

As to derelict boats being over blown, I disagree. Now I do think some are trying to use them for additional agendas. But I think the problem is very real. Responsibility and means are difficult. Stock Island has had many. Other areas a few. There just isn't a system today and I don't think this puts one in place either although it might help a little. The state of Washington encounters a lot of derelict fishing boats abandoned at marinas and they have a system to deal with them and their destruction, but the state spends a lot of money on it.

These issues too won't be resolved overnight. Look at how long it's taken so far. But every state faces them.
 
Derelict boats are in Destin harbor in view of multi million dollar homes and condos. Not much of a bother to me when we anchor there but I could see where they would be an issue to the homeowners. When we have a hurricane hit up here it seems that it takes years to get them cleared out.
 
Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. A quick Google session turned up This link showing the entire coasts of NH, MA, RI and CT covered by a NDZ:
nodischarge-ne.jpg


I'm guessing the same thing will happen with FL "no anchoring" zones if allowed.

This is what I was going by and it seems like the map fills in some blanks unless the actual legislations adds some fringe areas to make it really "all waters" like it says for some states.

No Discharge Zones by State | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA
 
Done, I hope it works out OK for us boaters.
I can understand their point of view too, we often read on boating forums how some A'hole at an anchorage anchored too close, blared loud music, took a Pi$$ over the side etc etc. imagine that going on in your back yard, day after day. not to mention derelict and abandoned boats. As usual a few screw up the works for the rest of us.

I took the survey and I also agree with your post. We now have a fleet of derelict boats just down from out marina (one upside down in the marsh and another stuck in the marsh and out of the water at low tide) that we get to look at each day. I can just imagine them in front of my waterfront home and having to look at them every day all day and explain them to visitors.
 
>we get to look at each day. I can just imagine them in front of my waterfront home and having to look at them every day all day and explain them to visitors.<

Thats easy,, Just inform them that many boats are sunk to make artificial reefs , and it is a good deal for the environment.

Explain how much better a person you are (than most everyone )by installing a mid tide habiatat to make up for breathing , and exhaling CO 2.
 
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