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02-09-2017, 10:45 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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This is CRAP Literally!
So they pick on us recreational boats, then this happens.....
Salem dumps 57M gallons of sewage into Willamette | KGW.com
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02-09-2017, 11:05 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
City: Westport
Vessel Name: L'Eau Vive
Vessel Model: Bayliner
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 107
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Don't drink the 2017 Oregon Pinot!!!
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02-09-2017, 11:16 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Pahrump, NV
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Sold Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,967
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Tom,
I can add a little to freshen things up a bit for ya, since your downstream and all!
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02-09-2017, 11:28 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Maddening, and we have to lock our minuscule sewage devices? It's as bad as the crap Victoria puts in Juan de Fuca. It is said that the straits are paved with corn...
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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02-09-2017, 11:38 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Chief
Tom,
I can add a little to freshen things up a bit for ya, since your downstream and all!
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We prefer lavender please.
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02-09-2017, 06:10 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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It happens here in the Northeast too. When there is heavy rain, many of the large cities, some on rivers, release millions of gallons of raw sewage into the area waterways. I, like you am a bit maddened by how much boaters are persecuted and regulated regarding how sewage is treated when this sort of raw sewage release is tolerated.
Ken
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02-09-2017, 06:16 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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And some people say there's no overpopulation problem.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-09-2017, 06:18 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Wherever the boat is
Vessel Name: Kismet
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Chucky
Don't drink the 2017 Oregon Pinot!!!
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But the 2018 will be **amazing**
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02-09-2017, 08:21 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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02-10-2017, 01:06 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy
And some people say there's no overpopulation problem.
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Overpopulation of what exactly?
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02-10-2017, 05:29 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78puget-trawler
Overpopulation of what exactly?
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No idea what Eric means, but I`m confident it`s the world.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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02-10-2017, 05:34 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,264
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For some reason boaters are an easy pollution target since being a minority we are easily persecuted, while cities since everyone uses a toilet by necessity gets a pass.
Hampton Va has had major sewage breaks leaking millions of gallons raw sewage into the Back River. And the fishing here is non existent compared to 15 years ago. I read the recent break, city was unaware of the sewer leaking. I suppose could have been leaking for years.
I blame city sewers and farms mostly for over fertilizing the Chesapeake Bay waters.
Barnacles do grow well on all the algae and plankton fertilized by the sewage.
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02-10-2017, 07:00 AM
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#13
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Many of the cities on Long Island Sound have been having the same "emergency" for 4-5 decades.
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02-10-2017, 07:09 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
Many of the cities on Long Island Sound have been having the same "emergency" for 4-5 decades.
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That is because many eastern cities use a combination storm drain/sewer system. They work great for three seasons, emergencies normally occur during periods of heavy rain when folks are away from rivers, creeks and beaches. Most cities "solved" the problem with longer outflow pipes and EPA waivers for "emergencies".
__________________
Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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02-10-2017, 10:18 AM
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#15
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Guru
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace
I, like you am a bit maddened by how much boaters are persecuted and regulated regarding how sewage is treated when this sort of raw sewage release is tolerated.
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Instead of advocating that everybody should be allowed to dump sewage into our coastal waterways, how 'bout you petition your municipality to upgrade the local sewage system so that releases do not happen?
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
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02-10-2017, 11:30 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
Instead of advocating that everybody should be allowed to dump sewage into our coastal waterways, how 'bout you petition your municipality to upgrade the local sewage system so that releases do not happen?
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[Rant_mode]Here in the PNW the recent issue isn't raw sewage from boats as that is already prohibited. Most boaters don't mind that now (other than a few cantankerous old dinosaurs). The more recent issue is making the area a NDZ, prohibiting the discharge of treated waste from boats. I recall that as a diver you are not a fan their use in the waters in which you work and I get that. However, there is no evidence that their use degrades the environment in Puget Sound in any way. Yet the state wants a NDZ but continues to allow sewage overflows, agricultural contamination in the rivers feeding the Sound, and failing septic systems lining the Sound. Their own research shows that the majority of nutrients entering Puget Sound (70% if I recall) comes from the Strait of Juan de Fuca.
So yes, we should be advocating for changes that would actually effect water quality. Instead, we end up trying to stop measures that are only symbolic.[/Rant_mode]
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02-10-2017, 11:56 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
Instead of advocating that everybody should be allowed to dump sewage into our coastal waterways, how 'bout you petition your municipality to upgrade the local sewage system so that releases do not happen?
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You prob'ly aren't aware that more than 100 cities, counties and municipalities have systems so antiquated, in such disrepair, and/or have become too small for the population demand that they can no longer meet federal requirements have been given waivers that permit them to operate anyway because they can't afford to update/upgrade them. As long as they can do that, there's no incentive to find the money.
As for " advocating that everybody should be allowed to dump sewage into our coastal waterways," no one is. For 37 years, federal law has required all vessels to hold or treat their sewage (toilet waste) in all US waters within 3 miles of the whole US coastline. Only about 5% of registered boats in the US are big enough to have a toilet...and no more than about 5% of those have ever had, or are likely to have, treatment devices because of cost and power requirements. That means 95% of 'em should already have holding tanks.
Federal water quality standards for safe swimming require a max bacteria count of 200/100 ml. The discharge from a LectraSan, ElectroScan or PuraSan is <10/100 ml. 1000 of 'em together doesn't equal the negative environmental impact of just ONE illegally dumped holding tank.
So how does it make any sense to require boats that are already putting out a cleaner discharge than most sewage treatment plants to cease doing that and instead hold their sewage in tanks to be pumped out (or often illegally dumped) and sent to sewage treatment facilities that you've already acknowledged are inadequate to meet demand?
It's that kind of thinking that has resulted in regulations that have brought any possible advances in more affordable, less power-hungry treatment devices to a standstill.
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02-10-2017, 12:15 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,264
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I agree with you Peggy completely. People need to be educated about how these marine sanitation devices work. So much ignorance likely cause there is some kind of emotional feeling regarding any kind of wastes going into the water.
A boat on the water is a visible target of opportunity to persecute about waste, while a sewer system is an invisible network of underground pipe nobody sees. If you don't see it, it is not a problem type thinking.
Happy to have and be able to use a Lectrasan, no potentially stinky holding tank issues.
Half the marinas I have had the boat, don't have any pumpout facility, and I don't want to go looking for one when I get to the boat, I want to just go out on the bay.
There is the argument that even sterilized waste is nutrient pollution. But you know, put it into the sewer system, and it mostly ends up discharged by a city into the water anyway. The few Boaters nutrient waste is ridiculous to consider significant.
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02-10-2017, 01:06 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
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There is the argument that even sterilized waste is nutrient pollution.
That's not a valid argument either....the enviro-zealots switched to that one when they lost the battle over bacteria count (federal law actually allows a max of 1000/100ml, which is what they based that argument on). The BOD (bio-oxygen demand) from a flush through a Lectra/San, ElectroScan or PuraSan is the equivalent of 4 oak leaves landing in the water.
They also try to argue that there's no way to prove that owners are using an maintaining treatment devices as required by the mfrs...but that's a specious argument too, 'cuz there's no way to prove that tanks aren't being dumped illegally either...but that's a lot more likely than owners neglecting or mis-using equipment that's cost 'em a whole bunch more than a tank.
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02-10-2017, 01:24 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
Instead of advocating that everybody should be allowed to dump sewage into our coastal waterways, how 'bout you petition your municipality to upgrade the local sewage system so that releases do not happen?
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I have never and would never advocate that boaters be allowed to dump untreated sewage in rivers, lakes or near shore. As has been stated, boaters are an easy target even if at most are a tiny fraction of the problem. Cities get away with dumping massive quantities by filing for and getting waivers because they "don't have the money" to fix the system properly. I can't imagine a boater would be allowed any such "waiver".
Ken
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