Need advice for appliances, gas or electric, if you had a choice

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sndog

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Joined
Nov 15, 2022
Messages
203
I am doing a refit of my boat. It is a 65' steel hull and superstructure. I am doing a complete refit.

For my kitchen, I have purchased a Gaggenau 400 series oven and a Samsung 30" induction cooktop. I also need to purchase a dryer. All three of these items are quite energy intensive.

I then went to Home Depot and saw a Samsung Bespoke range. So I began to wonder if perhaps I get that, and go to a gas dryer.

My question is should I stick with electric appliances or move to gas appliances for these three and put in an instant hot water heater as well using propane.

Currently, for hot water, I have 3 200kbtu heat exchangers connected to 3 of 4 engines with tiered thermostatic valves for scald protection (2 for propulsion, 2 for generators), and a 20 gallon electric hot water heater.

For eventual power, 1 generator 33kw, can use to power the entire boat, 1 generator 5.5kw to recharge the power bank, ~8.5kw of solar panels, and ~100kwh of battery power banks.

The gas (propane) would be for a range, an instant hot water heater, and a dryer. Fuel on the boat is diesel, with the exception of the dinghy and jet ski.

There is currently no propane systems onboard, nor was there ever. Electrical wires need to be ran.

Big energy hogs is the HVAC (10 tons), water maker, and scuba compressor.

Thank you
 
Welcome Aboard sndog!

I love reading letters from people who obviously know what they are talking about, even if they are asking questions. We can tell by the quality of the questions that you know something about boats. We get a surprising number of newer members who start their post by saying something like. "I'm 27 years old and ready for a change, I bought a 40 foot wooden boat for $1,000 and it needs everything. We want to do the Loop next year. The engines are shot, and I would like to go electric, how many batteries will I need?" LOL

Personally, in your case I would go with propane. Although you will have plenty of genny capacity there is nothing like instant gas heat for cooking or hot water.(Also for drying clothes) .You have a perfect opportunity to make a super safe propane storage area on your steel boat. Just my humble opinion.

BTW, We (collectively) love lots of photos. You should be taking lots of photos anyway during you refit project, share them with us. Also tell us a little more about yourself.

Good Luck,

pete
 
I'll go counter to Pete M.

Your boat sounds energy intensive so not sure how much yoy can gain by introrucimg another fuel source. I didn't see much in your description about HVAC and refrigeration, but unless you can take your generator offline for significant periods, not sure you'll gain much and may increase hassle factor with propane.

I can't say as I recall seeing a gas dryer on a boat. No reason not too, just don't recall seeing one.

Where I definitely agree with Pete M is this needs pictures. A little boat-porn please.

Peter
 
I would stick with electricity. In addition to the slight risks of having three propane fueled appliances on board, you will have at least two vents: dryer and hot water heater that you do not have now. Where are you going to terminate them. Well I do understand that most electric dryers have vents but not all.

Cost wise given that you will have to get 20# tanks filled (somewhere) it won't be much cheaper to run the appliances on diesel generated power particularly if it is incremental power.

And if you decide to use propane, know that ABYC recommends individual hoses all the way from the propane source to the appliance. In other words, you shouldn't tee off inside the boat.

David
 
Can induction burners be run off inverters or do they need the genset running?
 
Fintry is all electric. Morning Light and Sweetwater have gas ranges, but electric hot water and dryer. All three had engine heat for hot water as well. That worked well enough so that we simply turned off the electricity to the water heater when not on shore power.



Fintry was all 120/240 except for wheelhouse instruments, so we ran a generator or 10kW of inverter all the time when off shore power.


I have serious safety problems with gas hot water. Propane is a risk on a boat, but I'm OK with it on the range -- you turn it on at the tank with the remote solenoid and sniffer system that's beside the range, do your cooking, and turn it off. I would be much less comfortable having it on all the time for instant hot water. With the range, the cook is right there and can see if the the burner is on. With hot water, no one is there and the gas is on 24/7. Sure, there's a safety if the burner doesn't light, but I like the double safety of having someone there.



Also, as I said above, if you have a heat exchanger in the hot water heater, you won't need electricity at all when off shore power. Gas instant hot water cannot, of course, use waste engine heat. Fintry's 50 gallon Torrid hot water heater actually has two heat exchangers - one for generator waste heat and one for heat from the HVAC boiler.



A dryer is in between, but I favor electric. Actually we have the Splendide washer dryer in one unit and I don't think you can do that it gas.


Jim


Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022, 20,000 miles including trans-Atlantic - The Fleet Tender Fintry

Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- ?
 
Welcome Aboard sndog!

I love reading letters from people who obviously know what they are talking about, even if they are asking questions. We can tell by the quality of the questions that you know something about boats. We get a surprising number of newer members who start their post by saying something like. "I'm 27 years old and ready for a change, I bought a 40 foot wooden boat for $1,000 and it needs everything. We want to do the Loop next year. The engines are shot, and I would like to go electric, how many batteries will I need?" LOL

Personally, in your case I would go with propane. Although you will have plenty of genny capacity there is nothing like instant gas heat for cooking or hot water.(Also for drying clothes) .You have a perfect opportunity to make a super safe propane storage area on your steel boat. Just my humble opinion.

BTW, We (collectively) love lots of photos. You should be taking lots of photos anyway during you refit project, share them with us. Also tell us a little more about yourself.

Good Luck,

pete


Thank you for the compliments and the information.

About me, I bought a 52' little harbor in St Maarten in Feb 2021 and spent 8 months refitting and took it to Florida. It was a beautiful boat and I loved it, but ultimately did not fit my application or needs. So I purchased a 65' dutch built steel boat. Will be extending it out 5' with a swim platform with hydraulic rams. Will be taking it from TX to California when the majority of the refit is complete.


What I learned on the last trip is that genny is expensive to use, as I like to travel in comfort (AC). So this trip, though the generation capacity is large, I would ultimately like to avoid using it as much as possible. Hence the solar, battery storage, and even items like my ac are in 6 zones with 6 different units so I can close doors to conserve a lot of power.

I was definitely going all electric, hence my purchases, but then saw the samsung bespoke range and thought it looked great, so now I am debating it, especially when I priced out the Victron inverter gear to handle an additional 12kw of energy conversion.
 
I'll go counter to Pete M.

Your boat sounds energy intensive so not sure how much yoy can gain by introrucimg another fuel source. I didn't see much in your description about HVAC and refrigeration, but unless you can take your generator offline for significant periods, not sure you'll gain much and may increase hassle factor with propane.

I can't say as I recall seeing a gas dryer on a boat. No reason not too, just don't recall seeing one.

Where I definitely agree with Pete M is this needs pictures. A little boat-porn please.

Peter

The boat is definitely energy intensive, no clue on how to share photos yet. It has 10 tons of AC (3 24k BTU units and 3 18k BTU units), water maker, hot water heater, scuba compressor, full size fridge, 2 ice makers, 2 chest freezers, washer, dryer, 3 large screen tvs, IT gear (3 wifi APs, KVH H7 HTS, Starlink, Peplink HD2 with sim injector, Peplink BR2 with access marine 2m antenna, wilson wifi amplifier, TMO home hotspot, 2 pairs of Devialet Phantom Gold speakers, a few switchs, router, firewall),Microwave, Anova Sous Vide oven, office with multiple monitors and gear and a Cisco Virtual Presence machine. Plus standard stuff like lighting, outlets, etc.

According to my rough energy audit I calculated energy usage ( with electric appliances and water heater) to be about 65kwh a day with no AC, and with AC to be about 150kwh a day.

The biggest difference I am looking at is peak electrical loads. with items like AC will be constant, adding in additional reserve capacity to handle the 3 appliances is large. As the cooktop requires a maximum of ~8kw, ~5.5kw, and dryer ~6.5kw. So, I need to really oversize, or make sure only one is running at a time. Hence my look now at switching to gas.

And that is why I am posting to this forum.

All the electric appliances are purchased, but not yet installed.
 
I would stick with electricity. In addition to the slight risks of having three propane fueled appliances on board, you will have at least two vents: dryer and hot water heater that you do not have now. Where are you going to terminate them. Well I do understand that most electric dryers have vents but not all.

Cost wise given that you will have to get 20# tanks filled (somewhere) it won't be much cheaper to run the appliances on diesel generated power particularly if it is incremental power.

And if you decide to use propane, know that ABYC recommends individual hoses all the way from the propane source to the appliance. In other words, you shouldn't tee off inside the boat.

David

Thank you for the info. I did read that ABYC requires no T-s. Which is not a big deal at all. As well as shutoff valves.
 
Fintry is all electric. Morning Light and Sweetwater have gas ranges, but electric hot water and dryer. All three had engine heat for hot water as well. That worked well enough so that we simply turned off the electricity to the water heater when not on shore power.



Fintry was all 120/240 except for wheelhouse instruments, so we ran a generator or 10kW of inverter all the time when off shore power.


I have serious safety problems with gas hot water. Propane is a risk on a boat, but I'm OK with it on the range -- you turn it on at the tank with the remote solenoid and sniffer system that's beside the range, do your cooking, and turn it off. I would be much less comfortable having it on all the time for instant hot water. With the range, the cook is right there and can see if the the burner is on. With hot water, no one is there and the gas is on 24/7. Sure, there's a safety if the burner doesn't light, but I like the double safety of having someone there.



Also, as I said above, if you have a heat exchanger in the hot water heater, you won't need electricity at all when off shore power. Gas instant hot water cannot, of course, use waste engine heat. Fintry's 50 gallon Torrid hot water heater actually has two heat exchangers - one for generator waste heat and one for heat from the HVAC boiler.



A dryer is in between, but I favor electric. Actually we have the Splendide washer dryer in one unit and I don't think you can do that it gas.


Jim


Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022, 20,000 miles including trans-Atlantic - The Fleet Tender Fintry

Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- ?

Thank you for the info as well. The instant hot water heater was looking to put outside, not in the engine room. Was thinking of a small one, just in case, as it is easy to plumb in as all of my systems go to a pex manifold to control water input, then out to two different pex manifolds for everything else.

Seems like a gas dryer may not be a good idea. I have the samsung heat pump one already, but was debating.

Range and oven are energy hogs, which is what brought me here for this discussion.

I was also working on PLC logic for my breaker panel to limit which appliances were on/off to keep the energy from exceeding capacity.
 
A couple of things you don't mention that would help giving meaningful information. How will the vessel be used? Marina to marina or off shore passages. What are your plans for inverter sizing? Run light loads only with genset power for larger loads or ability to run 100% silent?

Generally I would prefer electric over gas. Much easier to refill esp at unfamiliar ports, possibly with different tanks and fittings. An all gas vessel will require big and heavy storage tanks. Do you have the physical strength, cranage, dinghy etc to handle these? Induction hotplates add minimal heat and moisture to the galley vs gas. Both can be installed safely but electric has less risk.

Gensets can be expensive to run in terms of fuel, spares inventory, noise and downright inconvenience especially when run at light loads. With 100kwh of battery bank you have the capacity to power all loads via inverter(s) and use the generators to recharge at full efficiency when ever it suits you. Obviously this will be supplemented with your large solar panels providing essentially free power. Not relying on genset to power items directly also allows all items to be wired as single or split phase avoiding drastically unbalanced loads on a 3 phase genset.

Victron, while very good units, are not the only brand available. There are many residential or industrial brands that also perform well.
 
A couple of things you don't mention that would help giving meaningful information. How will the vessel be used? Marina to marina or off shore passages. What are your plans for inverter sizing? Run light loads only with genset power for larger loads or ability to run 100% silent?

Generally I would prefer electric over gas. Much easier to refill esp at unfamiliar ports, possibly with different tanks and fittings. An all gas vessel will require big and heavy storage tanks. Do you have the physical strength, cranage, dinghy etc to handle these? Induction hotplates add minimal heat and moisture to the galley vs gas. Both can be installed safely but electric has less risk.

Gensets can be expensive to run in terms of fuel, spares inventory, noise and downright inconvenience especially when run at light loads. With 100kwh of battery bank you have the capacity to power all loads via inverter(s) and use the generators to recharge at full efficiency when ever it suits you. Obviously this will be supplemented with your large solar panels providing essentially free power. Not relying on genset to power items directly also allows all items to be wired as single or split phase avoiding drastically unbalanced loads on a 3 phase genset.

Victron, while very good units, are not the only brand available. There are many residential or industrial brands that also perform well.

I would be open to other brands as well, as Victron is a bit pricey for the KW needed. As I would like to have 15 to 18kw of capacity from the inverter loads.

Usage will be a long passage from TX to the West Coast. From there. Most passages will be Long Beach to Catalina, or similar.

THe issue I am debating is, is it worth the additional cost in inverter capacity to be able to run them together, or to go to gas. Energy usage is not terrible overall of them, as it adds about 8kwh a day of energy usage, but the cost is to get the capacity to run items like the cooktop and oven at the same time. It takes me from 15 to 18kw of inverter to 25 to 30kw of inverter.
 
A couple of things you don't mention that would help giving meaningful information. How will the vessel be used? Marina to marina or off shore passages. What are your plans for inverter sizing? Run light loads only with genset power for larger loads or ability to run 100% silent?

Generally I would prefer electric over gas. Much easier to refill esp at unfamiliar ports, possibly with different tanks and fittings. An all gas vessel will require big and heavy storage tanks. Do you have the physical strength, cranage, dinghy etc to handle these? Induction hotplates add minimal heat and moisture to the galley vs gas. Both can be installed safely but electric has less risk.

Gensets can be expensive to run in terms of fuel, spares inventory, noise and downright inconvenience especially when run at light loads. With 100kwh of battery bank you have the capacity to power all loads via inverter(s) and use the generators to recharge at full efficiency when ever it suits you. Obviously this will be supplemented with your large solar panels providing essentially free power. Not relying on genset to power items directly also allows all items to be wired as single or split phase avoiding drastically unbalanced loads on a 3 phase genset.

Victron, while very good units, are not the only brand available. There are many residential or industrial brands that also perform well.

What brands would you also recommend for inverter
 
Have always had gas for cooking. Even with modern induction believe turn a flame up or down is the easiest way to control temperature as our brains can correlate flame to temperature intuitively. That said many of the pros have switched to induction. The house is all Wolf/subzero. Now they say that gas ranges are a significant contributor to indoor pollution and some states are moving to outlaw new gas appliances in new construction. Still personally like propane for the cooktop. However boats have another wrinkle. That’s getting propane. Big tanks are heavy and in many places it was chore to find a refill station. So if starting out would do induction cook top and electric convection oven on a boat. You have enough capacity to make that work.
Also have a Splendide which is vented. Inspite of that it dries poorly compared to a home machine and can’t really do bedding. Even with it end up going to the laundromat. Yes it’s convenient to make those trips more infrequently. However if I had the bucks, space and available energy would put in Speed Queen. We have that in the house and it’s the best we ever had. Short of house washer/dryers wouldn’t worry much about a splendide as a draw. Just do it when genset is on for another reason or you’re plugged in.
Don’t use much AC and didn’t even in the tropics. Find it’s necessary in the low winds,high humidity you see in a marina but not other settings. So more likely to be necessary when plugged in. Then issue becomes getting a sufficient load on the genset when you are out of the marina setting and want AC.
Unfortunately every time I’ve done a energy audit it’s been wrong. You can never fully figure out how frequently and for how long you will use things until you’ve lived with them for awhile. Neither can you figure out what combination of things will be on at the same time. Yes you can make a real good guess at minimum draw underway and maximum underway or at rest but not average. Nor range of draw per any 24h period of time. Some days or weeks it’s quite high others low. Friends with FeLiPO say it’s a game changer as they can cruise never worrying about getting to 100% nor going too low. This impacts on genset time even with solar onboard. Before spending more boat bucks would decide if you’re going to stay with AGM. That decision would impact all your other decisions.
 
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What brands would you also recommend for inverter

I'm Australian and not terrible familiar with the US market. Personally I went with Korean MPP Solar units 2*5000w. The main thing is to ensure that they have programmable or selectable Earth/Neutral bridges otherwise you may not be able to connect to Shore power.

Will Prowse videos on YouTube can be a little over the top but he does road test numerous inverter setups, many designed for the US market.

18kw is 2 or 3 inverters, depending on model selected, as is 30kw. Given this, and the size of the overall electrical upgrade, I don't see the marginal cost as huge. I do see a lot of benefits in having a single platform and being able to run the genset if and when I want. But those are only my priorities. Yours may be different. I'm good at spending other people's money. ?
 
I would keep it all electric too. Induction is as good as gas and it's clean easy and fast. Just need induction cookware.

The outdoor shower I would have no problem with a 20# propane powered system.
 
Have always had gas for cooking. Even with modern induction believe turn a flame up or down is the easiest way to control temperature as our brains can correlate flame to temperature intuitively. That said many of the pros have switched to induction. The house is all Wolf/subzero. Now they say that gas ranges are a significant contributor to indoor pollution and some states are moving to outlaw new gas appliances in new construction. Still personally like propane for the cooktop. However boats have another wrinkle. That’s getting propane. Big tanks are heavy and in many places it was chore to find a refill station. So if starting out would do induction cook top and electric convection oven on a boat. You have enough capacity to make that work.
Also have a Splendide which is vented. Inspite of that it dries poorly compared to a home machine and can’t really do bedding. Even with it end up going to the laundromat. Yes it’s convenient to make those trips more infrequently. However if I had the bucks, space and available energy would put in Speed Queen. We have that in the house and it’s the best we ever had. Short of house washer/dryers wouldn’t worry much about a splendide as a draw. Just do it when genset is on for another reason or you’re plugged in.
Don’t use much AC and didn’t even in the tropics. Find it’s necessary in the low winds,high humidity you see in a marina but not other settings. So more likely to be necessary when plugged in. Then issue becomes getting a sufficient load on the genset when you are out of the marina setting and want AC.
Unfortunately every time I’ve done a energy audit it’s been wrong. You can never fully figure out how frequently and for how long you will use things until you’ve lived with them for awhile. Neither can you figure out what combination of things will be on at the same time. Yes you can make a real good guess at minimum draw underway and maximum underway or at rest but not average. Nor range of draw per any 24h period of time. Some days or weeks it’s quite high others low. Friends with FeLiPO say it’s a game changer as they can cruise never worrying about getting to 100% nor going too low. This impacts on genset time even with solar onboard. Before spending more boat bucks would decide if you’re going to stay with AGM. That decision would impact all your other decisions.

My last boat I went from St. Maarten to Ft Lauderdale. We took two months as we enjoyed stopping and staying. We did find out that AC was necessary in order to be comfortable given the large windows onboard. My new boat has larger windows. So as much as I hate to run AC, it will, unfortunately, be necessary.

Batteries are lithium, so the power is there. Engine start batteries though are remaining as AGM.

Running the dryer just at the Marina is not a bad idea actually at all. As our longest offshore passage is from Dominican Republic to Bonaire. Well, unless I can pull off 3 to 4 miles to the gallon and starlink works as it should, then it may be a pit stop in the Galapagos, but other than that, not long passages. Cruise speed for my boat is 14 kts, but I intend to keep it maybe 7 to 8 kts for fuel efficiency.
 
I have no issues with propane done correctly. However, if you can get by with out adding propane to the boat that is a plus. If you can cook with out a generator then I wouldn't add propane.

I added propane because the wife demands gas for cooking and I hate running the generator for cooking.

With laundry, you do that once a week and I wouldn't normally find some one cooking and doing laundry at the same time. If on the hook you will need to charge batteries at some point and doing laundry at the same time is no big deal.

Your instant hot water is the biggest challenge and only you know how important this is.
 
We have 240v Everything apart from some lights, instruments and some pumps.

25 litre 2.4kw hot water system left on continuously
100 litre freezer left on continuously
125 litre bar fridge X 2 (1 off in winter)
475 litre fridge freezer left on continuously
Pressure cooker
Large air fryer
Pie maker
Microwave
Induction cooktop
42 inch and 32 inch led screens one with PC and XBox
Another PC with 23 inch led monitor both PC left on continuously
Front loading Whirlpool washing machine and seperate dryer
Watermaker 150lph

All of it runs off a victron 5000va inverter charger and 840 ah of lifepo4 @24v
Charge comes from 2250w of solar, most days batts at 100% by midday.

Genset rarely used
 
Why I don't like gas on boats.
These people thought their system was safe. And I got lots more pictures.
 

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Regarding domestic hot water:

I would install a water heater with a built-in heat exchanger to run off the generator's freshwater cooling loop. As much generator time as you will likely have, the hot water should just about be free as it's making hot water with waste heat that would otherwise be dumped overboard.

I do this with the cooling loop on my main engine and probably get free hot water 95% of the time as I usually move atleast every other day.

This hot water is very hot and there should be a tempering valve after the water heater to keep domestic hot water at a safe level.

If you still plan to use instant hot water unit(s), using the above system will preheat you water and probably eliminate most of the energy required for the instant water heater.


Thought I was going to switch my boat to a propane stove and cook top. Glad I didn't. Getting propane for the gas grill is enough of a PIA.

Ted
 
My last boat I went from St. Maarten to Ft Lauderdale. We took two months as we enjoyed stopping and staying. We did find out that AC was necessary in order to be comfortable given the large windows onboard. My new boat has larger windows. So as much as I hate to run AC, it will, unfortunately, be necessary.

Batteries are lithium, so the power is there. Engine start batteries though are remaining as AGM.

Running the dryer just at the Marina is not a bad idea actually at all. As our longest offshore passage is from Dominican Republic to Bonaire. Well, unless I can pull off 3 to 4 miles to the gallon and starlink works as it should, then it may be a pit stop in the Galapagos, but other than that, not long passages. Cruise speed for my boat is 14 kts, but I intend to keep it maybe 7 to 8 kts for fuel efficiency.

I have been thinking about a gas stove as well, but have decided against it, for two reasons. The first reason is the obvious fire hazard and the second reason is that a gas stove actually heats up the galley quite a bit. So then you have a gas heater working against an airconditioning. I did not think that was a clever idea, so I changed from electrical cooking to induction and I can control the 'heat' in the induction plate perfectly, so can highly recommend it.

Am sure you made the power calculations correctly, but 150 Kw per day for a 65' boat sounds a bit heavy to me. Our boat also has lots of goodies on board, but don't get anywhere close to your electricity usage. You may want to look at that again. Unless you are with 10 persons on board I think your usage will be much less.
Most of the equipment you can run while underway and thus the alternators will provide the power, so no need for the generator to run. E.g. we only run our dish washer, washing machine and water maker while underway. We never run that while on anchor.
You can also ask yourself if you really need 2 ice makers ? They use quite a bit of energy and is that really necessary ?

The airco is of course a big one, but there is a way to lower the need. One way to lower the need for air conditioning is eg the use of curtains or shades in front of the windows on the outside of the boat. On my boat I have see through sun shades hanging from the dinghy deck to the railing. The shades are not directly in front of the windows (about 50 cm away from them). I can still see through them, but direct sunlight does not get into the salon and galley anymore. There is no hot air behind the shades since the wind takes that hot air away. In good weather we always use the fly bridge, never steer from the pilot house, so the covers are on the windows basically all the time. That drops the temperature drastically.
While underway we just have the pilot house, fly bridge and rear door to the salon open and with those sun shades it is nice and fresh. And this is in Greece where we have 110 - 120 degrees in summer time, but we did not use the airco at all in the salon. just the airco in the bedroom was in use for a bit, but that was just 1 airco instead of the three that we have. Without those shades we need air conditioning. I will try to find a picture of it, can highly recommend it.

As for Victron. I can highly recommend them. Am currently installing a complete Victron system, which means inverters, chargers, mppt controllers, monitoring, bmv, the whole works.
I decided for a Victron Quattro 24/8000 and the good part is that you can string Victron inverters. In other words I could install a second one and divide the load of the boat over the two of them. Victron has a 48 / 15000 Quattro, so with 2 of them you would end up with 30.000 VA at 48 V which would be 625 A and that is quite a lot.
There are some things to take into consideration when stringing them, but any good electrician should know about that.
Another positive part about Victron is that they have service stations almost everywhere, so they can help you whenever necessary.

And lastly some bad news. I saw you want to go to Bonaire, but I have to advise you it is not worth the hassle. I live on the island of Curacao (which is next to Bonaire) and the seas are not for boating. This part of the Caribbean is known for a short, but high, wave, with strong currents. As long as you go East to West it is sort of Ok, but any other direction............forget it, you can actually destroy your boat doing that route and I have seen that happening as well.
For that reason we don't see a lot of motor yachts coming to our islands. Only some mega yachts show up during hurricane season, lying a couple of months down town, never going out to sea.
Yes we do have sailing yachts which just crossed the ocean, but the majority stays in the Northern Caribbean. The motor yachts we do have on the islands basically only go from Spanish Water to Fuik Bay and that is about it. Even going along the South coast is very unpleasant, with regularly 10 - 15' waves.
We do have a period of the year the seas are calmer, that is September, but trust me, you don't want to be here in September. There is hardly any wind and temperatures quickly go up to well over 100 degrees, not fun at all.
If you want to see the ABC islands I would advise to simply take a plane and fly over, will be much more enjoyable. It also saves you the crossing from the North to the South Caribbean, which normally has enormous swells with cross pattern waves. I used to fly for the Coast Guard, it was our area of operation and from experience I know there is only a very small window of time when the seas are calm enough to make a crossing pleasurable.
 

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Regarding domestic hot water:

I would install a water heater with a built-in heat exchanger to run off the generator's freshwater cooling loop. As much generator time as you will likely have, the hot water should just about be free as it's making hot water with waste heat that would otherwise be dumped overboard.


OP said he is planning on big solar and battery so Genset likely won't be needed often if at all.

We haven't ran ours for a couple of weeks so with your plan, no hot water.

I'd suggest big solar and battery first on the list
Add stuff from there.
 
OP said he is planning on big solar and battery so Genset likely won't be needed often if at all.

We haven't ran ours for a couple of weeks so with your plan, no hot water.

I'd suggest big solar and battery first on the list
Add stuff from there.

Depending on where you are, hot water can be one of the biggest consumers of electricity. Every time you run the generator with a heat loop to a water heater, your saving a lot of KW.

Ted
 
OP said he is planning on big solar and battery so Genset likely won't be needed often if at all.

We haven't ran ours for a couple of weeks so with your plan, no hot water.

I'd suggest big solar and battery first on the list
Add stuff from there.

My water heater is both electric as well as running off the port engine cooling system. So when the engines are running I have warm water and we wash the dishes, do laundry etc.
When on anchor the water gets heated via the batteries. During day time the solar provides enough Amps to keep the water warm and since we then hardly use any warm water, other than taking a shower, the electrical consumption is minimal.
 
Question:


With induction cooking:
Is it true that it will heat the galley less than electric?
Is it true that it will use less energy to get the same job done?
 
Question:


With induction cooking:
Is it true that it will heat the galley less than electric?
Is it true that it will use less energy to get the same job done?

An electric stove works on a different principle than induction. An electric stove first needs to get hot, by using electricity and will retain that heat also much longer, thereby emitting energy to the outside air (read: galley)

An induction plate uses magnetic energy to create the heat in the pan. You can turn it on of off at any moment and although it will be somewhat warm, it is not going to be as near as hot as an electric stove. And that means it won't heat up your galley / salon as much.

Since the energy is used more efficiently an induction plate uses less energy than an electric stove.
Negative part is that you will need to buy new pans if you would have pans that are not suitable for induction cooking (e.g. aluminum).

There is also another system, which is called ceramic cooking and basically that is in between electric and induction cooking.

At the moment I still have a ceramic stove in the boat, but will change that to induction. It uses a ridiculous amount of electricity, can only use one burner at a time (out of the four I have).
Have been using induction at home for the last 10 years or so and like it a lot. Much better control over the temperature and saves a lot of electricity.

One variant will always stay the same. The heat the food in the pan generates will remain the same.
 
Question:


With induction cooking:
Is it true that it will heat the galley less than electric?
Is it true that it will use less energy to get the same job done?
Yes, less heat in galley with induction. Yes, induction uses less energy. Induction cooking is around 90% efficient. Electric is less than 70% efficient (see link below). I believe gas is around the same - around 65% efficient

https://www.inductiontop.com/electric-vs-induction-cooktop/

Induction (versus electric) is definitely viable with solar and battery infrastructure. While I have a traditional Princess propane range, I plan to tinker with an outdoor propane pizza oven for baking and go Induction inside.

Peter
 
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I have been thinking about a gas stove as well, but have decided against it, for two reasons. The first reason is the obvious fire hazard and the second reason is that a gas stove actually heats up the galley quite a bit. So then you have a gas heater working against an airconditioning. I did not think that was a clever idea, so I changed from electrical cooking to induction and I can control the 'heat' in the induction plate perfectly, so can highly recommend it.

Am sure you made the power calculations correctly, but 150 Kw per day for a 65' boat sounds a bit heavy to me. Our boat also has lots of goodies on board, but don't get anywhere close to your electricity usage. You may want to look at that again. Unless you are with 10 persons on board I think your usage will be much less.
Most of the equipment you can run while underway and thus the alternators will provide the power, so no need for the generator to run. E.g. we only run our dish washer, washing machine and water maker while underway. We never run that while on anchor.
You can also ask yourself if you really need 2 ice makers ? They use quite a bit of energy and is that really necessary ?

The airco is of course a big one, but there is a way to lower the need. One way to lower the need for air conditioning is eg the use of curtains or shades in front of the windows on the outside of the boat. On my boat I have see through sun shades hanging from the dinghy deck to the railing. The shades are not directly in front of the windows (about 50 cm away from them). I can still see through them, but direct sunlight does not get into the salon and galley anymore. There is no hot air behind the shades since the wind takes that hot air away. In good weather we always use the fly bridge, never steer from the pilot house, so the covers are on the windows basically all the time. That drops the temperature drastically.
While underway we just have the pilot house, fly bridge and rear door to the salon open and with those sun shades it is nice and fresh. And this is in Greece where we have 110 - 120 degrees in summer time, but we did not use the airco at all in the salon. just the airco in the bedroom was in use for a bit, but that was just 1 airco instead of the three that we have. Without those shades we need air conditioning. I will try to find a picture of it, can highly recommend it.

As for Victron. I can highly recommend them. Am currently installing a complete Victron system, which means inverters, chargers, mppt controllers, monitoring, bmv, the whole works.
I decided for a Victron Quattro 24/8000 and the good part is that you can string Victron inverters. In other words I could install a second one and divide the load of the boat over the two of them. Victron has a 48 / 15000 Quattro, so with 2 of them you would end up with 30.000 VA at 48 V which would be 625 A and that is quite a lot.
There are some things to take into consideration when stringing them, but any good electrician should know about that.
Another positive part about Victron is that they have service stations almost everywhere, so they can help you whenever necessary.

And lastly some bad news. I saw you want to go to Bonaire, but I have to advise you it is not worth the hassle. I live on the island of Curacao (which is next to Bonaire) and the seas are not for boating. This part of the Caribbean is known for a short, but high, wave, with strong currents. As long as you go East to West it is sort of Ok, but any other direction............forget it, you can actually destroy your boat doing that route and I have seen that happening as well.
For that reason we don't see a lot of motor yachts coming to our islands. Only some mega yachts show up during hurricane season, lying a couple of months down town, never going out to sea.
Yes we do have sailing yachts which just crossed the ocean, but the majority stays in the Northern Caribbean. The motor yachts we do have on the islands basically only go from Spanish Water to Fuik Bay and that is about it. Even going along the South coast is very unpleasant, with regularly 10 - 15' waves.
We do have a period of the year the seas are calmer, that is September, but trust me, you don't want to be here in September. There is hardly any wind and temperatures quickly go up to well over 100 degrees, not fun at all.
If you want to see the ABC islands I would advise to simply take a plane and fly over, will be much more enjoyable. It also saves you the crossing from the North to the South Caribbean, which normally has enormous swells with cross pattern waves. I used to fly for the Coast Guard, it was our area of operation and from experience I know there is only a very small window of time when the seas are calm enough to make a crossing pleasurable.

Adding some sun shades to the outside of a window is not too bad of an idea at all. I just know my last trip 9/20/21 to 11/4/21 from SXM to Ft Lauderdale, even at night, at anchor, AC was necessary. But maybe it was due to the time of year.

But the sun shades I may do as worse case scenario it will help lower my total energy consumption, which is a very good thing.

The current draw is why I am debating this, though it is not for a long time, it still needs it, unless I write logic into the PLC that specifies to turn AC units off while oven and/or cooktop is in place.

For the Victron gear, I do think it is good, but it's price gets heavy. I also was speaking wtih Victron, where the larger units will not give me the two legs of AC needed for 230. So they advised to stick to the 5kva units, which means I need to have 4 of have them if I do not exceed 20kva, if I need 22kva, then I need to jump to 30kva. At least according to them.

Also, very good info about the waters off those islands. I was not aware of that at all.
 

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