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Old 06-17-2017, 09:17 PM   #41
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I think the freighter was all over the place... After the collision. Looks like steady course and speed up to 1630 UTC, time of the collision.
Exactly how I read it. I bet after the collision he returned to assist, if needed. Next, he proceeded on his way.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:19 PM   #42
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Sad news:

YOKOSUKA, Japan -- A number of Sailors that were missing from the collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) and a merchant ship have been found. As search and rescue crews gained access to the spaces that were damaged during the collision this morning, the missing Sailors were located in the flooded berthing compartments. They are currently being transferred to Naval Hospital Yokosuka where they will be identified. The families are being notified and being provided the support they need during this difficult time. The names of the Sailors will be released after all notifications are made.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:34 PM   #43
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..After I saw the AIS erratic course of the merchant, the frigate captain have a very little chance not finish flipping hamburger in McDonald on 6 month...
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:17 PM   #44
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The AIS plot, as well as some of the news stories seem to indicate that the crash was at 17:30, not 16:30
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:19 PM   #45
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Yea, saw some of same discrepancies. Not sure of the time.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:43 PM   #46
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Exactly how I read it. I bet after the collision he returned to assist, if needed. Next, he proceeded on his way.
1630Z collision also explains the right angle turn at that time. Pretty hard to get a container ship to slip sideways.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:57 PM   #47
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"Sean P. Tortora, a veteran merchant marine captain and consultant who said he had sailed through the area of the collision many times, said that evidence suggested the Fitzgerald was at fault.

Captain Tortora described the collision as a “T-bone” in which the bow of the Crystal hit the starboard side of the Fitzgerald. “From what I’ve seen, the Fitzgerald should have given way and passed to the stern of the container ship,” he said.

He added that a common cause of collisions, at sea or on the simulators used for training, is a misjudgment of distance and speed on the part of a captain trying to cross in front of another vessel. “They think they can make it and they make a run for it,” Captain Tortora said."

This is from the NYT's story.

But what strikes me is that in my travels, I have once-in-a-while decided to pass in front of a passing boat, BUT after the fact, every time, I wonder what was I thinking and to not do that again.
But that's with boat's my size, with larger ships, I never pass in front, that's on the the lessons I learned in the USCG Aux.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:00 PM   #48
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1630Z collision also explains the right angle turn at that time. Pretty hard to get a container ship to slip sideways.

Right. If you reject the news report that the collision was at 17:30, and just look at the freighters track, it would seem that:

- 16:30 collision, knocking the freighter 90 deg off course.

- freighter continues on it's way, getting back on course.

- freighter realizes that the navy ship is in distress, so turns and doubles back to assist.

- freighter arrives back at navy ship around 17:30, slows to a stop, zig zags around to see if it can assist.

- freighter then gets back underway, resuming course and speed.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:01 PM   #49
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You guys know that if agreements are made on the radio or there is an "operation" by the Navy that the rules are flexible right up to the point of collision.

So the regular Navrules are out the window except for rule 2.
Regardless, it's a tragic accident and lives were lost. We don't yet know the circumstances, but should soon I would guess since there are many survivors.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:45 AM   #50
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Would be interesting to know if there was other traffic in the area at the time that may have limited their maneuvering options.

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Old 06-18-2017, 08:31 AM   #51
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True, rules are between 2 vessels, a 3rd in the mix changes a lot.

Love to hear the radio exchanges if any.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:23 AM   #52
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Good point Ted. I also wonder if there were any designated lanes.

Lots of facts we don't know that I'm sure will come out in time.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:19 AM   #53
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Would be interesting to know if there was other traffic in the area at the time that may have limited their maneuvering options.

Ted

The entrance to Tokyo wan probably sees, literally, a thousand ships a day. Every thing from 60 to 80 ft fishing vessels to supermax tankers and freighters. In short it's busy. I'd guess they both had scheduled pilot pick up times and were planning their arrivals based on that. The 180 turn of the freighter would indicate to me they were a bit early.

If Fitz wasn't tracking 30 -50 contacts with in 10 miles I'd be surprised. This one, when it made it's reversal, got missed by combat and the bridge team. Complacency costs lives.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:25 AM   #54
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... In short it's busy. I'd guess they both had scheduled pilot pick up times and were planning their arrivals based on that. The 180 turn of the freighter would indicate to me they were a bit early.

If Fitz wasn't tracking 30 -50 contacts with in 10 miles I'd be surprised. This one, when it made it's reversal, got missed by combat and the bridge team. Complacency costs lives.
Certainly more questions than answers.

This will probably be one of those cases where too much data obscured the critical.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:57 AM   #55
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A zoom-able real time reference...

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ry:34.7/zoom:8
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:44 PM   #56
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Here's another interesting discussion with expandable track. Seems a lot of discussion centers on the 0130 vs 0230 JST collision time. Presumably the Fitz coms were disabled and the freighter may have not have made a timely reporting of the collision, possibly due to third world type reasoning. Who knows.

Vessel of Interest | наблюдаемое судно: Mapping the ACX Crystal's collision with the USS Fitzgerald using publicly available info
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:56 PM   #57
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Based on that plot, collision occurred after u-turn.. interesting..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Here's another interesting discussion with expandable track. Seems a lot of discussion centers on the 0130 vs 0230 JST collision time. Presumably the Fitz coms were disabled and the freighter may have not have made a timely reporting of the collision, possibly due to third world type reasoning. Who knows.

Vessel of Interest | наблюдаемое судно: Mapping the ACX Crystal's collision with the USS Fitzgerald using publicly available info
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:11 PM   #58
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Based on that plot, collision occurred after u-turn.. interesting..
Wifey B: The sequence of events should be easy to determine with crew. Sure makes it look very different if U Turn was before or after.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:34 PM   #59
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Navy Destroyer tee boned by a Freighter?

Could have been an act of a militant ship captain.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:45 PM   #60
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Could have been an act of a militant ship captain.
That particular scenario is significantly more disappointing and embarrassing than the one I'd like to believe.
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