Narrowed it down to two, need advise!

[AutobahnRanger]

Hello Boys and Girls,

Long time speed boater on the Potomac river about to make the move to trawler speed, smell the roses type boating.

I have narrowed it down to two choices.
1. 1981 Defever 40- Ford Lehman 120 HP diesel engine - 1950 hours lot's of upgrades 1981 DeFever 40 "CUSTOM" Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

2. 1989 Saber Fast Trawler- Twin DD 8.2 (250 HP Turbo) 2000 Hours Show boat so it's loaded. 1989 Sabre Sabreline 36 Fast Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

What are your thought? I know about the love hate feeling on the DD 8.2 and I don't plan on working them that hard to ever overheat them, but like the thought of moving out fast is I run into weather. But also love all the work done with the Defever. I will mostly be cruising the costal waters and ICW.

I'm really excited to join this group of boaters!

Keith

 

[refugio]

That DeFever looks extremely odd to me. I get the idea of that pilot-housey thing and covered aft deck, but they added a TON of windage (and some weight up high), neither of which is good for an inexperienced boater. Single engine - even with a thruster (was it sized for the windage on this contraption?) - and this is going to be a handful to maneuver in anything other than dead calm. Interesting W/D and water heater on the aft deck. The main teak deck replacement is good, possible concern that they didn't also do the aft deck and flybridge - condition of the cabin sides is important. Much of the gear is good. The engine room is particularly clean and usable. But damn, that's a 35 year old boat.

The Sabre leaves me neutral. 8 years younger than the DeFever, looks more modern, I dunno...I'm not personally excited about it but the good news is it will be MUCH easier to resell. And it's $45K cheaper to start with! But, yeah, those DDs aren't premium engines - you'll have to sea trial it to see if the noise works for you.

Note that the Sabre is a MUCH smaller vessel in terms of accommodation - it's 4' shorter and 18" less beam.

Honestly, I think you need to get on more vessels.

 

[2dboat]

Go with the Sabre - nice clean original lines and not modified.

 

[roguewave]

Might want to take a look at the 41 defevers on yachtworld. Bought ours last year and really enjoy it.

 

[dhays]

That DeFever looks extremely odd to me. I get the idea of that pilot-housey thing and covered aft deck, but they added a TON of windage (and some weight up high), neither of which is good for an inexperienced boater.

I get the concern about windage, but is it all that much worse than the fully enclosed oxygen tents you see around the flybridges of so many boats?

However, a heavily modified, 35 year old boat would definitely not be my first choice either. If you want a covered cockpit, get a boat that was designed that way.

 

[AutobahnRanger]

Hello Boys and Girls,

Long time speed boater on the Potomac river about to make the move to trawler speed, smell the roses type boating.

I have narrowed it down to two choices.
1. 1981 Defever 40- Ford Lehman 120 HP diesel engine - 1950 hours lot's of upgrades 1981 DeFever 40 "CUSTOM" Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

2. 1989 Saber Fast Trawler- Twin DD 8.2 (250 HP Turbo) 2000 Hours Show boat so it's loaded. 1989 Sabre Sabreline 36 Fast Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

What are your thought? I know about the love hate feeling on the DD 8.2 and I don't plan on working them that hard to ever overheat them, but like the thought of moving out fast is I run into weather. But also love all the work done with the Defever. I will mostly be cruising the costal waters and ICW.

I'm really excited to join this group of boaters!

Keith

Some how I left one off: 1986 Jefferson 42 Aft Cabin - with newer Cat 3826 - will use more gas at cruise speed I bet 1986 Jefferson 42 Aft Cabin Motor Yacht Power Boat For Sale -

 

[AutobahnRanger]

That DeFever looks extremely odd to me. I get the idea of that pilot-housey thing and covered aft deck, but they added a TON of windage (and some weight up high), neither of which is good for an inexperienced boater. Single engine - even with a thruster (was it sized for the windage on this contraption?) - and this is going to be a handful to maneuver in anything other than dead calm. Interesting W/D and water heater on the aft deck. The main teak deck replacement is good, possible concern that they didn't also do the aft deck and flybridge - condition of the cabin sides is important. Much of the gear is good. The engine room is particularly clean and usable. But damn, that's a 35 year old boat.

The Sabre leaves me neutral. 8 years younger than the DeFever, looks more modern, I dunno...I'm not personally excited about it but the good news is it will be MUCH easier to resell. And it's $45K cheaper to start with! But, yeah, those DDs aren't premium engines - you'll have to sea trial it to see if the noise works for you.

Note that the Sabre is a MUCH smaller vessel in terms of accommodation - it's 4' shorter and 18" less beam.

Honestly, I think you need to get on more vessels.

Great point, I was totally forgetting about that wind issue.

 

[AutobahnRanger]

I get the concern about windage, but is it all that much worse than the fully enclosed oxygen tents you see around the flybridges of so many boats?

However, a heavily modified, 35 year old boat would definitely not be my first choice either. If you want a covered cockpit, get a boat that was designed that way.

Your bring the key points back up, I did want a cover helm, but only in the cabin. I like the look of the open cockpits, and would take most cover back down.

 

[AutobahnRanger]

I was also looking this one over 1986 Jefferson 42 Aft Cabin Motor Yacht Power Boat For Sale -

 

[Tidahapah]

She offers a "Custom" hard top over the Flybridge and hard top extension over the aft deck. You will not find these two upgrades on any other Defever 40!!

You can see why, really spoils the lines of a good looking boat"makes it harder to sell"
Would check out a few more available boats in the 40 to 43 ft range , especially in your USA market, so many to choose from.
For me the DD's on the Sabre makes it a no go and also loosing 4 feet really reduces you live on board room.Don't worry about getting the extra speed , unless you are talking 40 knots or more it is not going to get you out of trouble , just may be decrease the amount of uncomfortable time before getting into port.

 

[Old deckhand]

8.2 engines are junk. I suggest you do a little research on them, like at boat diesel. Good luck on your search.

 

[BruceK]

3 quite different boat types. Are you really still resolving the type of boat you want, or down to making a choice?
The Jefferson looks tidy and loved, has twin Cats,and avoids the issues of the other 2. Sundecks have their + and - aspects to consider. Hard to tell from pics, is there any sign of water penetration?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. AR. "...but like the thought of moving out fast is I run into weather." Keep a better eye on the weather and you shouldn't have to outrun anything.

As Mr. r. says in post #2. "I think you need to get on more vessels."

 

[AutobahnRanger]

You bet I will enjoy the newer systems for radar and weather. I was caught once in the Potomac river. I smelt it, my knees were sore and with in five minutes out of nowhere it hit me. Thanks again for the help

 

[AutobahnRanger]

No, I have it narrowed down to these three. I just need to deal with the loaners as there a limit to what they will loan on these 25 plus ones. Thanks for the reply

 

[Baker]

Jefferson all the way!!!!

 

[roguewave]

This boat is in our shed, I've admired it since last year. I met the owner/craftsman last year and walked thru. A really nice boat in my opinion. Probably not what your looking for but might be worth a look here at "Great Bay Marine".
***I have no affiliation with the broker, yard or seller

Gray & Gray Yacht Brokers, Inc. (York, ME)

 

[Gordon J]

Looks to me like you are looking at different kinds of boats. Perhaps you need to sit down and do a decision matrix, listing your boat criteria and rating each one against the criteria. This will help you eliminate some of the emotion.

Defevers always seem to get a premium price, like Krogens. Having just gone through the process of selecting and buying a boat, I often wondered if what Defever had to offer was worth the extra money. I liked/like so many Defever options, but in the end, price played significantly in my decision. The $40K - $60K difference in price, for similary sized/equipped boats would go a long way toward upgrades.

Gordon

 

[cardude01]

Assuming all three choices are equally mechanically and structurally sound (which of course they probably aren't), I like the Jefferson. Newer engines. Newer fuel tanks is a big plus. Seems tidy and well kept. The custom Defever with the add on will be hard to resell IMO and unwieldily at the dock possibly. Don't personally know anything about the 8.2 DD engines in the Sabre, but if the overall impression of the buying public is negative that could be hard to resell.

Why do so many posters, when asked which 1 choice out of 3 would they pick, offer instead offer up choice 4, 5, 6 or 7? I get that some might not like choices offered for whatever reason, but the OP is pretty adamant that he has narrowed it down to THESE THREE BOATS.

 

[Hawgwash]

Looks to me like you are looking at different kinds of boats. Perhaps you need to sit down and do a decision matrix, listing your boat criteria and rating each one against the criteria. This will help you eliminate some of the emotion.

To me, he has already established his needs; trawler speed, cruising the costal waters and ICW.

Maybe he is wide open with all the other boxes and those three boats will meet his needs.

 

[roguewave]

Why do so many posters, when asked which 1 choice out of 3 would they pick, offer instead offer up choice 4, 5, 6 or 7? I get that some might not like choices offered for whatever reason, but the OP is pretty adamant that he has narrowed it down to THESE THREE BOATS.

Because knowledge and options in life are a good thing, can't hardly have too much of either.

 

[Gordon J]

The decision matrix does not develop criteria as much as weigh them against the alternatives. It helps one measure how well each boat meets the criteria.

 

[Hawgwash]

Ok, now it's comedic.
The OP has not said "these are the only boats I have ever seen in my life."

He may well have 37 friends with 52 completely different boats that he has intimate knowledge of.

Or, heaven forbid, maybe he just doesn't care so much about most things;
"Trawler me on the ICW and a bit on the coast, the rest is fluff."

 

[bayview]

does either one have cored vs solid bottom?

 

[go-planing]

Been running 8.2 Detroits for ten years. Currently at about 1500 hours. Not a single problem....ever. They were not great street engines, in part because the injector rack got a lot of movement and wear, and the early engines had a head gasket issue which was addressed with larger diameter head bolts and greater clamping force. A lot of dock talk here and on boatdiesel that's not backed up with experience. Take a look at failures on Lehmans, Perkins Cats just on this board....plenty of head gaskets, endless injection problems....and associated cost.

Most of the time I run the engines at rpm for hull speed plus. When I need to get out of rough water or make a bridge opening I push them up. Guaranteed best in class fuel economy, no leaks, no failures, no cooling issues, no oil consumption, no kidding. They start after winter layup the very instant the start button is depressed. Besides that the four stroke (not 2-stroke) V8 has the best exhaust sound around....low, smooth and quiet V-8 rumble. At high hours they might need a rack tune up.... bet on these other engines needing new injection pumps even sooner. In my experience, the dock talk rep is a flat out crock perpetuated by people who don't personally run them in boats.

Before buying the boat I spoke with an old timer engineer at Johnson and Towers who actually worked on the marinization project for Detroit. Their view was that the 220/250 HP engines in pleasure boat operation was a gem. The 300 HP intercooled version in fish killer hulls not so much, as it was approaching the 5 pounds in a 4 pound bag category....just like the high horsepower other brands....and they were routinely run against the pins on the fishing boatts. Why? because the head gasket issue started to come into play (even with the larger head bolts).

Give me an 8.2 any day over any of its contemporaries. Buy the Sabre, you won't be sorry. Quality, modern boat with a great, absolutely reliable engine (assuming it has the big head bolts). Contact me off-line if you want more first hand info on the 8.2.

 

[bayview]

s-p glad you have good experience with those engines but how do you recommend the OP determine head bolt size and how hard the engines were run?

 

[bayview]

Back to the op I think I would keep looking. there are many boats on the market.

 

[go-planing]

s-p glad you have good experience with those engines but how do you recommend the OP determine head bolt size and how hard the engines were run?

The big bolts were introduced on the production line in the mid-80s at a specific engine serial number...I can look it up, or the OP can contact Detroit. If the boat had an engine change and an older engine was installed, the heads will be stamped with a code indicating the modification (if completed). All remanufactured engines leaving the factory after the mod date would have the change and the stamp. When I bought our boat, I contacted Detroit, and they sent me the entire warranty history on each engine.

If a head gasket is blown, it will be obvious. If it ain't....it ain't. If it's running well and not leaking, there's no reason to think that it's about to do so...head gasket blow outs are not like that. If it's a 220 or 250 HP engine....it's non-issue in the first place. If the boat is as nice as indicated, there should be complete records that would show a gasket change. If suspicious, look for marred paint on manifold bolts and probably head bolts. (But unlikely that someone would go around and touch up every bolt head. And even then you can see the touchups).

I had an oil analysis done prior to purchase, which came back clean. Get a full engine survey if still concerned after looking around the engine room and running the boat. The bottom end of this engine is hell for stout. The heads are the same technology as used for 50+ years on the 2-strokes. The only serious problem they ever had was the head gasket. Plenty of examples of head gasket issues (and other very expensive problems) documented on this board on other makes.


Not five days ago I ran our 8.2s at 2700 rpm (3000 max) for an hour to meet a bridge opening. No leaks, no oil burn, no issues. Big displacement, high torque, low fuel burn...a cakewalk. Try that with some of the lumps in these old trawlers.


PS Research the Cat 3126 (in the Jefferson)....

 

[refugio]

Heck, I didn't know the 8.2 was a four stroke! I automatically lumped it in with thinking all Detroit diesels are two stroke. Thank you for the education.


Keith

 

[Hawgwash]

Heck, I didn't know the 8.2 was a four stroke! I automatically lumped it in with thinking all Detroit diesels are two stroke. Thank you for the education.

Keith, I asked Ski about 2 strokes a while back and got...

DD four strokes: 8.2, series 50, series 60.

DD two strokes: Anything 53, 71, 92, 110, 149. Those numbers are the cubic inch per cylinder, and came in lots of cylinder counts. Some in-line, some vee block.

For example, a 71 could be 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6cyl inline. And 6, 8, 12, 16 and 24 cyl vee block.

6-71 inline
6V-71 vee block