My engines are better than yours

surveyor1 · 01-09-2009, 06:49 PM

Or maybe not ...
I'm in the market for a sundeck maybe 40' to 42 '.
My research shows a variety of engine configurations including Lehmans,
Volvos, Cats, Cummins, Perkins and an occasional Yanmar etc.
I currently own a 30' Island Gypsy with a Ford Tempest. It's a British
marinized 2715E Ford block which I thing is bulletproof.
Anyway, somewhere, maybe on this forum I heard at least one disparaging remark re: Volvos and I'm wondering if that was just one person's impression or if there was a consensus of ill will toward Volvos or any other make.
Should I be steering clear of some diesels ?

-- Edited by surveyor1 at 18:44, 2009-01-10

Marin · 01-09-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

surveyor1 wrote:

, maybe on this forum I heard at least one disparaging remark re: Volvos and I'm wondering if that was just one person's impression or if there was a consensus of ill will toward Volvos or any other make.

The only negative comment I have heard a number of times in different boating forums*regarding Volvo engines is the same comment I've heard about their cars--- parts are bloody expensive.

FF · 01-10-2009, 04:33 AM

Parts are expensive , some engineering and parts selection is poor and the mfg does not admit to factory build errors.

Volvos come in 2 styles , lightweight cart marinizations , and heavy duty bigger engines.

For displacement boats the construction equipment farm tractor marinizations seem an OK choice, although personally I would chose Cummins or Detroit if a high output engine were needed.

The Deere with marinized Jap construction equip blocks is a good choice for limited power at disp speeds.

sunchaser · 01-10-2009, 05:54 AM

As FF wrote, some Volvo engines are better than others. The same can be said for DD and Cummins and etc. Engine age, prior maintenance and prior owner operating habits will play a very important part in your selection irrerspective of brand. Engines can be rebuilt or replaced and should not be the sole criteria for buying a vessel. For those engines to avoid and history in general go to boat diesel.com and pay the $25 to view and discuss all issues diesel.*Then locate and hire the right engine surveyor to conduct a detailed look at your selection. Good luck.

-- Edited by sunchaser at 06:55, 2009-01-10

**Baker** · 01-10-2009, 08:10 AM

Something that concerns me is that the majority of members on boatdiesel.com are Volvo owners....

RCook · 01-10-2009, 08:41 AM

If you check out the Members Vessels on boatdiesel, you'll find more Cummins, and roughly as many Detroit, Cat and Yanmar as Volvo.*

Chris Foster · 01-10-2009, 09:03 AM

Maybe it just means that the majority of people with trouble are the Volvo owners???

Phil Fill · 01-10-2009, 10:15 AM

I notice that a lot of the new boats/trawlers have Deere engines?*

When we bought the Eagle, one of the deciding factors*was it has a DD 671 where parts and service are available thought out the PNW.* Being our boating season*is only 3 to 5 month per years having parts and service is important.* I would also think having parts and service would be important for a long range cruise boat/trawler?

What is your thoughts?

Marin · 01-10-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Phil Fill wrote:

Being our boating season is only 3 to 5 month per years having parts and service is important.

To most people our boating season is about three weeks long (thank God).* To the few of us who have had enough sun and blue sky for a lifetime (I grew up in Hawaii--- I'm done with sun and blue sky), our boating season is twelve months long.* The best boating to be had in the PNW are the months when everyone else is cowering in terror of the gray skies and rain, which is pretty much the case from September to the end of June.* And as western Washington's population slowly shifts from people who've lived here a long time or all their lives to people who've lived here only a few years or less, there are less and less boaters out and about between September and July.

Which is way cool.

*

Steve · 01-10-2009, 03:24 PM

I had a 200 hp volvo tamd41p in my Camano I never had a bit of trouble with it it had 1400 hours on it when I sold the boat. It did scare me when I fist got it and saw a small bit of oil drip from the aftercooler weep hole but turns out it is a normal for that and other diesels.
Steve

Nomad Willy · 01-10-2009, 09:21 PM

Hey Rob,

What the heck is a " sundeck maybe 40 - 42' " Must be a style of boat and not a brand. I was the guy that said the neg about Volvos .. some people love em .. some people hate em but they all pay way too much for parts. I repowered recently and looked at everything I could find except Volvos. I like the green though. It looks like your'e buying a used boat and looking for the prefered engine that you'll find in that boat. For the record I'd choose Cat, Yanmar, Perkins or Cummins .. pass on the Volvo.
I clicked on your boat .. very nice .. I'd be keep'in that one if it were as good as it looks. If you buy a boat with a Volvo you'll probably like it .. you'll just need to upchuck a lot of green when you buy parts.

Eric Henning

Marin · 01-11-2009, 12:29 AM

Eric--- A sundeck is a configuration of boat.* I believe it describes a boat that has a full or almost full width aft cabin with a large, user-friendly deck on top of it.* The flying bridge is usually stepped up from the sundeck.* The sundecks are often enclosed, usually by fabric tops and side curtains with flexible clear "windows," and have full standing headroom under the top.* I believe a number of Carver models are considered "sundeck cruisers."

FF · 01-11-2009, 03:22 AM

The upside to the 6-71 is the ease with which the engine can be placed out of service , pickled at low expense .

And the fact that they will run , even when moderatly broken. They are indeed the best get home , short of sail.

The downside is the poorer fuel use at light loads , But for P/H at 4 hours a year , I'm not sure thats a big concern.

Also the injection system "the rack" needs to be run if the injectors are serviced , a detailed and skill requiring a genuine mechanic with DD experience.

FF

Forkliftt · 01-11-2009, 08:07 AM

A Sundeck....

Daddyo · 01-11-2009, 08:21 AM

I'm surprised to not see the the Lehman 120 on this list. There are tens of thousands of these running out there. It is a great, nearly indestructible little chunk of iron. Very easy to work on and diagnose. Very low fuel burn in the 1500-1800rpm range. I love mine! It also doesn't hurt that the designer is only a phone call away to BobSmith at American Diesel 804-435-3107.

Phil Fill · 01-11-2009, 10:22 AM

FF, I will have you know that we almost tripled the 4 hours last year.* Who know we might even break 20 hours this year.

My real question was concerning the Deere as it's*standard*for many of the new long range boats.* I*checked the PNW marine guide and there are two*parts/service and*none in the Everett area.***Now East of the mountains which is mostly agreculture there is a*Deere parts/service in almost every*town/city.* I am not saying if a good of bad engine just concerned about parts and serive which is the big complain about Velvo.

I have not seen Deere mention on past discussion?*

Nomad Willy · 01-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Yea guys I see the Sundecks. Thanks. Don't think we have any here on Prince of Wales Is.
Parts? I can get parts for my engine almost instantly from one source in the US. We rarely need them and yet I hear over and over again about the importance of parts availibility. All you need is one good source in the US.
Daddyo, If I understood the question I would have included Lehman Sabre and others that used the 380 Ford .. good engines to be shure but Bob Smith didn't design 96% of the engine .. it was english Ford engineers.
FF, How is the DD so easy to pickle?

Eric Henning

FF · 01-12-2009, 03:54 AM

How is the DD so easy to pickle?

By simply pulling the air box covers , a single bolt per cylinder , the usual marine fogging fluid can be sprayed DIRECTLY into each cylinder above the piston..

A turn or two and there is lots of preserving oil to help the cylinders from rusting.

Sealing the exhaust & blower inlet and your done.

DD does require using a preserving oil in the fuel , easily done by filling the primary off engine filter .

Done after the hot oil change & before the fogging fluid spray.

EZ? enough?

FF · 01-13-2009, 04:18 AM

VOLVO, folks wonder why these are ever considered in a boat.

The* boat Mfg does not care about your operating or* maint costs, he cares about how cheaply he can move merch. to get a check.

Volvo would "floor plan" engines and the better engine mfg would not.

To pay for an engine package ,perhaps a 3 months to year in advance , VS a "free " engine until the vessel is sold ,

*not a hard choice for most boat assemblers.

FF

-- Edited by FF at 05:20, 2009-01-13

sunchaser · 01-13-2009, 09:30 AM

On repowers, many choose to use Volvos - for sound reasons. About two years ago there was an article in PMM about a 34 Tolly in the PNW that removed the gas originals to put in Volvo diesels. Volvo is a considerable force in European diesels, both land and sea. Competition on new diesels is good, it makes them all better over time. On new and repower installs, Cummins needs a viable alternative - and today Yanmar and Volvo are the only ones offering the bulk of the competition. The others, in 2009, are (Tier II and III &*Euro compliance*gets involved) not necessarily worthy competitors including Cat and my beloved Perkins Sabres.

-- Edited by sunchaser at 10:42, 2009-01-13