multiple issues create a wild night!

[2savage]

After anchoring in Stamford Harbor (CT) and running my wife into the Marina with the dinghy I had planned to settle in and have a quiet night watching a movie. The weather had other ideas. Soon the waves in the Sound were breaking over the harbor breakwater and the swell challenged my 130LB RACNOR anchor on 60 feet of chain in 12 feet. I started to drag at 9pm. The anchor alarm got me fired up for action and it was a race to get control before we hit something nasty.

Then, I sensed the engine was not giving normal power. I had an anchor to get up, rocks to avoid and sporadic power. Somehow I managed to do all that was needed. It was a blur, but I got the anchor up, avoided the rocks and after looking for a place to drop the hook again (with no luck) I maneuvered to pick up a mooring of the Stamford Yacht Club.

Who here can manage a 48 ton single engine boat with no thrusters, single handed at night and pick up a mooring? I was on fire that night, Everything so save she ship!!

As of now I am stranded with no transmission at all. TowBoatUS will take me to a repair yard. My hair is a little more grey and if I were a cat I would be loosing something. And, my cat was aboard to see the show!

 

[rslifkin]

Having grown up in Stamford, I can't imagine bailing out of that anchorage around the mooring field being much fun in bad weather. There's 3 ways out and over to the main channel, 2 of which are only usable near high tide and with a little local knowledge. Out into the sound and around to the main entrance is always viable. At high tide you can also run along the breakwall (stay close to it to avoid the rock shelf) or you run in near Grass Island and over to the main channel (with no visual reference to keep you away from shallows and rocks).

With all that said, good job making it out of there in 1 piece!

 

[fryedaze]

Glad you had a happy ending. My wife would never let me get away with 5:1 scope. In our early days of boating we drug one night due to inadequate scope. She's on my butt every time we set the anchor. She wants to know depth and how much chain.

 

[long-cours.62]

To answer at your question

After anchoring in Stamford Harbor (CT) and

Who here can manage a 48 ton single engine boat with no thrusters, single handed at night and pick up a mooring? I was on fire that night, Everything so save she ship!!
!

May be one of my colleague who was at anchor in "la Corogne bay"
He change the place of his anchorage whith this boat : patrol boat 28.95x5.65 72T whith the ..."Charles Babin" 54mx9.30 730T... alongside ...ALONE also


Yes he is "little" crazy !!!

 

[Porgy]

… never let me get away with 5:1 scope

If the OP didn’t account for the distance between the water and the roller nor account for a 7-8 foot tide, it was a lot less than 5:1. Possibly as little as 2:1. If so and wind and seas go to hell, I’m not surprised it dragged.

For us with all chain, 3:1 in only the most protected and benign conditions. 5:1 normal minimum for moderate conditions. 7:1+ I refer to as my “sleeping scope” if there’s any chance of weather, recognizing not all anchorages will have the swing room. But we avoid crowded anchorages when at all possible.

 

[2savage]

Scope was 6;1 at high tide. When I got the anchor up it had a wire cable attached, maybe 15 foot long.... could have been the issue?

The good news? I made it to Port Washington and it seems my issues may be the oil cooler for the transmission. Will know more tomorrow.

 

[Simi 60]

the swell challenged my 130LB RACNOR anchor on 60 feet of chain in 12 feet.

Is that the cheap immitation model?

Like others have said, chain sounds way short - 40m/120ft is our shallow water minimum, but we'll done not crashing into anyone.

 

[socalrider]

Scope was 6;1 at high tide. When I got the anchor up it had a wire cable attached, maybe 15 foot long.... could have been the issue?

The good news? I made it to Port Washington and it seems my issues may be the oil cooler for the transmission. Will know more tomorrow.

Just trying to understand the scope thing...

Your post said 60' of chain in 12' of water - 12' at high tide? That can't be right; you must have 6' of draft, no? Even so that's 5:1 not 6:1.

Then there's the height of your roller over the water - maybe 6' on your vessel? So in reality you're at 3.3:1 (60'/18') assuming the 12' at high tide is correct (again, I can't see how it is).

In sum, I concur it doesn't seem you had enough rode out. Congrats on getting out in one piece but certainly important to figure out why you're dragging with such a massive anchor.

 

[Hippocampus]

I have to respect what he did and went through. I give him +1 in his response. Problem up north is unlike the Caribbean you can’t just jump into the dinghy and go over your anchor as you leave for shore and see it. Or at least see it’s buried completely. If you want to actually see your anchor up north you need to dive it in very cold water which is a significant undertaking so not routinely done by most (including me).
Anchored 99% of the time in the Caribbean. If you missed the grass no dragging ever with our Rocna. Sad part is you get overconfident as the nextgens are so good. Have needed to reset on multiple occasions up north. It’s much harder up north. Troubles with the bottom and troubles finding adequate room. Soupy mud, patch of ledge covered by a foot of holding so you think youre good, so many ways to be mislead. Wouldn’t throw stones here. Other issue is there’s virtually no tide near the equator and rare shifting currents. Give the guy a break.
My impression is unlike prior anchors nexgens don’t do a whole lot better with more scope at a certain point. Don’t think once you’re pass around 6:1 or 7:1 it matters much. Still go 10:1 if weather predicted but have been caught with less and not dragged. Agree in 12’ would 80+ out not including the snubbers. Always try to have enough room for 80-100’ as with that much chain out the weight gives some catanary effect. Do that even in 12’.
If you what to snag wire, junk, or chain anchor in Newport R.I. Repetitively have seen people needing to call a diver to get free. Some cables are marked but they been throwing stuff into that harbor for four centuries and eventually you find it.

 

[backinblue]

The most obvious issue is that you have the wrong anchor! :lol:

 

[Hippocampus]

Other thing I’ve noticed, particularly with the Rocna, is rather than a strong back up after set it seems to,do better with a gentle back up and then just wait. I think it needs time to work it’s way down. Especially in mud. We may back down on it several occasions over a period of time but gently. Then finally use the engine to be confident of the set. This quite different than our prior behavior where we would gradually increase the revs over a brief period of time and be done with it. It means we generally don’t start to launch the dinghy for a good 1/2h plus after anchoring.

 

[Mac2]

Nothing like watching the apple cup in Husky stadium. So beautiful. The view out towards Lake Washington and all the anchored boats is spectacular.....right up until you see your boat dragging through the anchorage...from the upper level of the stadium! Long story short, I got to the boat in time to prevent a grounding. Lesson: I was only in 6 feet of water and put out about 60 feet of all chain. Technically that was plenty of scope, but due to the massive amount of milfoil and the cup shaped bruce anchor, I scooped up massive amounts of milfoil. This happened during setting, or the start of the drag. Either way there was no way for my anchor to set, or reset. I pulled up a massive ball of millfoil on the anchor. I think sheer weight of anchor and scope could have prevented this, along with an anchor that cuts through the milfoil and doesn't collect debris. Lastly, leaving in it gear after setting for a longer period might have helped. I wonder if the OP hooked the cable while setting which gave the false impression of setting.

 

[Adopo]

Would be interested in seeing a picture of your boat! Great job must have been exciting....

 

[2savage]

Just trying to understand the scope thing...

Your post said 60' of chain in 12' of water - 12' at high tide? That can't be right; you must have 6' of draft, no? Even so that's 5:1 not 6:1.

Then there's the height of your roller over the water - maybe 6' on your vessel? So in reality you're at 3.3:1 (60'/18') assuming the 12' at high tide is correct (again, I can't see how it is).

In sum, I concur it doesn't seem you had enough rode out. Congrats on getting out in one piece but certainly important to figure out why you're dragging with such a massive anchor.

I've been anchoring boats for 50+ years. The depth/scope thing isn't just numbers, it is also angles and when you set the anchor and it digs hard, I look at the angle of the chain to be sure scope is enough. It was night and the marks on the chain are now faint. Maybe the amount of chain was closer to 80 feet. All I know is I saw a very shallow angle and felt all 48 tons pull forward as she dug in.

As for the anchor brand being the cheap Chinese version, I've looked up the spelling and I think it should be ROCNA. Again, through much use the brand name has worn off.

To all you "monday morning quarterbacks" out there, give it a rest. I'm getting a bit tired of all the 'holier than thou' comments.

 

[rgano]

To all you "monday morning quarterbacks" out there, give it a rest. I'm getting a bit tired of all the 'holier than thou' comments.

Sorry, but it's the nature of this place which is full of people who are either trying to find out EXACTLY what happened so as not to encounter a similar issue or to a lesser degree, those who say it couldn't happen to me because my ____ don't stink. It's just part of the territory. I find that in the long haul I benefit more than the alternative from comments. Thanks for telling your story - I HAVE BEEEN THERE.

 

[backinblue]

In my experience and where I anchor, I'm sure I am never at 7:1 scope including the height from the bow to the water. In anchorages I am commonly in, that amount of rode would probably cause more problems than it saves. I do go to 7:1 or even 10:1 if I know a strong storm is imminent. I also believe, right or wrong, that if the anchor is properly set, there isn't a huge difference in holding between 7 and 5 to 1. That might possibly be somewhat dependent on the anchor model, length of chain, bottom, and other variables, but 90% of the time, I'm around 4:1.

I also don't think the comments here have been overly harsh, just more about trying to better understand the exact situation. I often find it funny here that some people post something, and if they don't get the answer they want to hear, they dismiss it. Not saying this is the case here, but if you don't want feedback (good and bad) then don't ask. In this case you dragged, so you can't be defensive and say you did everything right. If so, you wouldn't have dragged, unless your tackle is undersized. That's a good-sized anchor, but also a very heavy load as you pointed out. I'm glad that it all turned out ok, and you deserve credit for that!

 

[2savage]

There's two kinds of boats out there. Those who have dragged their anchor and those who are just about to. I truly hope that none of you go through a similar experience because it takes years off your life. Sorry is I was a bit 'touchy' but boat forums seem to be places where if you bare your soul you get crucified by armchair sailors. Spend a few days on sailing anarchy and see how long you can stand it!!

 

[2savage]

The loss of power was diagnosed as a failure of the transmission oil cooler. To be honest dragging the anchor was not what scared the crap out of me. It was having almost no power to do anything about it. I now have an excellent mechanic who diagnosed the issue in a trice, had the offending part removed in minutes and managed to 'jump the queue' in getting it rebuilt. I should be up and running again by Monday.

 

[socalrider]

Glad you got the mechanical issue sorted - combination of dragging anchor and losing power is quite a pickle & I can only imagine the stress level it would induce! Especially amazing since it sounds like the transmission failure was totally independent & *just happened* to occur at the absolute worst possible time.

Certainly wasn't trying to come off as arrogant or "holier than thou" in my questions about scope above - I think of these sorts of things, whether they happen to me (and they do!) or others, as valuable learning opportunities so want to get to the bottom of it.

I understand what you're saying about relying on the feel of the anchor setting & the angle of the rode off the pulpit; but it still seems to me that this method could get you in trouble in shallow water with significant tides - for example assuming an anchor roller 6' off the water, an adequate 5:1 scope in 10' of water (75') may be marginal when the tide's in and depth is 20' - your 5:1 scope is now 3:1. Honestly, 3:1 is probably plenty with such a large anchor in most circumstances, but maybe after 50 years you found the combination of wind & swell where it wasn't?

Or maybe it was the wire you caught - but I'd consider checking the tide charts as well in case. I'm not one of these guys who believes it's irresponsible to lay out less than 7:1 scope for a lunch hook, but thought that might be worth running to ground.

 

[long-cours.62]

Normally I drop

too much chain .
The only time we drag I made a mistake .
Drop anchor ( 90kg Britany) in 4 m on sand patch, drop 25m of chain diameter 14mm, reverse engine , ok nothing move and put 20 m more.
In evening a black sky came from the mountain, the "sky" start from the sea level...look a black wall

We had few minute to drop 20 more meter BUT I maid a mistake , because in day time with light air your boat some time is above or behind or near your anchor...
The (very) strong wind arrive, push our boat quickly by the side until the end of the 65 m chain, our boat brusquely stop ... ok we thinking it was ok ...but not this violent chock remove little our anchor from the sand and begin to drag ...
We put 20m more and luckily the boat was stopped in 2.5m of water with 80 m of 14mm diameter chain ...
My neibourg said he saw 80kts gust on is anemometer... His 4.5m rib with 25hp go away rolling on itself like a plastic beach mattress !!
We was lucky, because one man died and few boat was ashore.

It was clearly my mistake :

- first star engine and "spread out" (not sure the right word) my chain and after put more chain.
Long-cours was only 32T and low profile, but if you looking at this graph strong wind generate a very big pressure
http://idata.over-blog.com/4/56/46/39/Passagemaker/pression-vent.JPG


plus the energy generated by 60m of drift... we was lucky

 

[hollywood8118]

I have personally had a couple times when a well set anchor with correct scope drug. Once in Suva Fiji we were at the Yacht club and had been on the hook for around a week. A weather cell ran through and we started to drag. When we finally got the hook to the deck it was wrapped up in a big blue plastic tarp.. no wonder it wouldn't reset. We also had a issue in Tonga where we started to drag, no amount of adjusting rode/changing direction made any difference. Finally pulled the hook to deck level and it had a big chunk of coral wedged firmly in place. It took a sledge hammer and a chisel to get the coral loose.
Anything an anchor picks up can reduce holding/penetration resulting in a no hold situation. The key is what we learn in those situations, giving us more in the tool box for future situations. I think the OP did a fine job dealing with the situation given the issues presented.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Mac2]

2savage: were you facing the same direction dragging as when you set your anchor?

 

[Symphony]

I bought a boat on the hard that was located in that marina when it was Brewer Yacht Haven. Nice people, nice sail loft (Z sails). Spring came and Brewer's launched the boat and put it on the southern finger (40' and bigger). looked great, secure, shore power etc. I planned to bend on the sails, get fuel and go home with my new boat after 2 days (cuz I hated driving I95 in Stamford!).

that night a mild rainstorm came up, some squalls, nothing big - except in Stamford harbor! I got to the marina the fingers and piers were a wreck, pedestals torn off the fingers, a couple piers sunk. my boat had dock rash on the bow and the dock was damaged too. a nearby resident said 12' rollers went through the place with very strong south wind. didn't happen often but every few years.

so don't feel bad if your anchor dragged. as long as you didn't lose the boat on the rocks or on the marina swell barriers you're a pro

 

[Hippocampus]

Glad I said “wouldn’t throw stones” in post #9. As more information is related seems increasingly likely he dragged due to the wire he picked up or a shift or both. Given the turbidity of the water up here he wouldn’t have known this until the anchor was retrieved. His technique seems just fine. “Wouldn’t throw stones”.

The question about change of direction is quite germane. All the roll bar anchors are said to do poorly with a significant shift in the direction of pull. And worst very poorly resetting. Seems once down and then pulled out they can rest in such a way due to the roll bar the point doesn’t get to dig in . Rather it skips along near the surface so the anchor doesn’t reset. Also the roll bar makes it harder for the anchor to fully bury. We were in St. Anne’s, Martinique waiting for parts and restocking for 8 days. Had multiple days of steady 15-25kt trades. All the same direction. Perfect sand for anchoring . Still last day the Rocna roll bar top was still visible. Never dragged with that anchor except in mud. But could see it putting out with a significant shift.

 

[2savage]

2savage: were you facing the same direction dragging as when you set your anchor?

Same direction. No wind or tide shift.

 

[Mac2]

Same direction. No wind or tide shift.

There goes my peaceful nights sleep at anchor!

 

[rslifkin]

Same direction. No wind or tide shift.

Based on that, I'd expect it to be some combination of short scope and that cable that caused the drag.

 

[BruceK]

2savage, your expertise dealing in with the emergency, solo in very adverse conditions (save for the onboard cat),and your success, suggests your judgment and expertise in anchoring is likely to be of similar standard. Impressive work! Glad all are safe.

 

[Simi 60]

. All the roll bar anchors are said to do poorly with a significant shift in the direction of pull. And worst very poorly resetting. Seems once down and then pulled out they can rest in such a way due to the roll bar the point doesn’t get to dig in . Rather it skips along near the surface so the anchor doesn’t reset. Also the roll bar makes it harder for the anchor to fully bury.

Well, as someone who has been using one every day for 6 years I call bullshlt on that or at least that has been our experience.

Only two times have we had an issue in all that time

Once we slow dragged on a constant 40 knot night - had alarms set and plenty of space so every couple of hours when the alarm went off would reset the range ring and to back to sleep
Dragged about 300 meter's that night, pulled the anchor up in the morning and had an old crab pot on the end.

Another time , again slow drag and plenty of space
Same deal as above, every few hours check and reset range ring
I think we were in liquid mud because there was zero mud or anything on chain and anchor on retrieval the next day.

We anchor in high current tidal areas often.
2 x a day, 180 degree shifts, not an issue.

 

[rslifkin]

Well, as someone who has been using one every day for 6 years I call bullshlt on that or at least that has been our experience.

Only two times have we had an issue in all that time

I'd bet that the clogging and other issues sometimes seen with roll bar anchors are much less of a problem once you get to the size of yours.