Money upon closing

[Tangler]

Perhaps the problem is you aren't good at selecting surveyors? I know some who do excellent work.

The first one,when I bought the boat, I was at the mercy of the broker and owner as I was a total noob for large boats. They were both good people and I judged them as honest. The surveyor was a well known pro who went around the boat with a little rubber hammer and tapped the bejeezies out of it all over the place looking for soft spots...he found none...there were many. As well as other issues. That was a half day out of water job that cost me $450.00us 11 years ago. The most recent survey was just as useless and cost me $500.00 cdn plus the lift costs so close to $1000.00 total. Insurance demanded it and they recommended the surveyor this time. My buyer.s son turned out to be a marine diesel mech and found an issue that no surveyor had found in 11 years. My experience is much more extensive now and I think I could do a survey as reliable as any I have received. Legal extortion I say.

 

[GH41]

My point for asking is.. How could a surveyor possibly find every issue in every system on a boat for the price you are paying?? Around here a home inspector gets between 3-500 for an inspection report. Just like a marine survey he spends a couple of hours on the property and another putting the report together. Also like a marine survey the report is covered with boiler plate leaving them off the hook if things are missed. I once took part in an oceanfront remodel. The owner paid us to estimate the remodel cost and paid a forensic architect to do an evaluation of the structural components. Forensic architects cut things open and don't miss much. The FA's survey cost the owner over a hundred grand. It was and old house on a 4 million dollar lot. The remodel job was a mill and a half.

 

[syjos]

My point for asking is.. How could a surveyor possibly find every issue in every system on a boat for the price you are paying?? Around here a home inspector gets between 3-500 for an inspection report. Just like a marine survey he spends a couple of hours on the property and another putting the report together. Also like a marine survey the report is covered with boiler plate leaving them off the hook if things are missed. I once took part in an oceanfront remodel. The owner paid us to estimate the remodel cost and paid a forensic architect to do an evaluation of the structural components. Forensic architects cut things open and don't miss much. The FA's survey cost the owner over a hundred grand. It was and old house on a 4 million dollar lot. The remodel job was a mill and a half.

A thorough surveyor will spend the whole day on a 35 to 45 foot boat. If they only spend a couple hours on the boats survey, you are not getting your money's worth.

 

[Tangler]

I expect them to find the obvious. I guess I resent having to get one done...I feel if the insurance people want one they should pay for it. You don’t have to get one for your cars and cars have similar values and around here a home inspection on a normal home, not a mansion, is optional.

 

[Jimintheair3]

Surveyor

Cale Mathers works for you and will not find everything! That's not to say, as YOU follow him around finding "queer" things also. Ask him, bring them to his attention! Make sure he note's it on the survey.

Control the survey, have Cale do the dock interior inspection first. Then if he(you) find things that are insurmountable, you don't have to haul out! You can stop the survey at anytime, the surveyor will charge you for his time.

I believe you did engine survey? Did you do oil sample, how many?

 

[Darlin]

Closing

After SEA trial I offered $15k less than asking price. Many items needed attention. Seller would only drop price $13,000. I walked away, next day broker called and advised each broker would contribute $1,000 from their commission to close the deal. I bought the boat.

 

[BandB]

The first one,when I bought the boat, I was at the mercy of the broker and owner as I was a total noob for large boats. They were both good people and I judged them as honest. The surveyor was a well known pro who went around the boat with a little rubber hammer and tapped the bejeezies out of it all over the place looking for soft spots...he found none...there were many. As well as other issues. That was a half day out of water job that cost me $450.00us 11 years ago. The most recent survey was just as useless and cost me $500.00 cdn plus the lift costs so close to $1000.00 total. Insurance demanded it and they recommended the surveyor this time. My buyer.s son turned out to be a marine diesel mech and found an issue that no surveyor had found in 11 years. My experience is much more extensive now and I think I could do a survey as reliable as any I have received. Legal extortion I say.

You didn't choose your own surveyor anytime. Now they're also different surveys. An insurance survey is nothing like a purchase survey. There are plenty of excellent surveyors who are not perfect, but do good work.

 

[BandB]

I expect them to find the obvious. I guess I resent having to get one done...I feel if the insurance people want one they should pay for it. You don’t have to get one for your cars and cars have similar values and around here a home inspection on a normal home, not a mansion, is optional.

So insurer should pay for the right to insure your boat. Interesting concept. How about if you want insurance, you should pay for the survey. Comparing cars to boats is ludicrous.

 

[syjos]

After SEA trial I offered $15k less than asking price. Many items needed attention. Seller would only drop price $13,000. I walked away, next day broker called and advised each broker would contribute $1,000 from their commission to close the deal. I bought the boat.

Good job! Walking away is the best way to get the Brokers involved to save the deal.

A $1,000 less commision is better than no commision. Some brokers don't get that.

 

[Tangler]

So insurer should pay for the right to insure your boat. Interesting concept. How about if you want insurance, you should pay for the survey. Comparing cars to boats is ludicrous.

Why is it so ludicrous? Many boats sell for under $80k and have many systems to be aware of. Many cars are in the same price range and many very expensive systems also...but the insurance takes my word for its condition. I did not need a home inspection to buy any of my homes over the years and the values of those were much higher. It does not cost me $1000 before I even insure it. The insurance agent could do a walk around for free and get as much value out of it as a survey. I have had many things paid for by those that requested them from me....credit checks, criminal records, driving abstracts ...Anyway it’s just my opinion...no need to get nasty

 

[stroutmail]

BandB's comment is pretty much right on. An accepted offer is really an option. Once conditions change, it is a whole new deal.

I have done purchases with Brokers and without. Brokers tend to increase the chance of the deal getting done and they generally do really earn their fee, however, because the relationship between buyer and seller is insulated, the process can be more frustrating.

It is not unusual for boats being sold to have deferred maintenance. Surveyors are in a difficult position...being a deal killer tends to hurt future referrals...missing things gives them legal liability.

The progress of each sale is probably as diverse as the personalities of all the people involved.

 

[bligh]

If Robert is the listing broker for the boat then he is the sellers broker. If you engaged Robert to find you a boat then he is the buyer’s broker. If you engaged Robert to find you a boat and he shows you a boat that he has listed then he is the seller’s broker and not trust worthy. Now if he just happens to have the perfect boat listed and asks you if you would like to be handed off to a different broker in his office for this opportunity then he should be trustworthy.

Not really. Both brokers are working to make a sale. So one could make the argument t hff at both brokers are working for the seller.

 

[slowgoesit]

Not really. Both brokers are working to make a sale. So one could make the argument t hff at both brokers are working for the seller.

Good point, and something to consider if "your" broker seems to be pushing you to make the purchase . . .

 

[Shrew]

I expect them to find the obvious. I guess I resent having to get one done...I feel if the insurance people want one they should pay for it. You don’t have to get one for your cars and cars have similar values and around here a home inspection on a normal home, not a mansion, is optional.

A car that sits in a driveway and begins incurring mechanical failures, simply won't start. A boat in a slip will sink. Cars don't catch fire sitting in the driveway, while electrical devices on a sitting boat can start fires, often catching other boats on fire. Fires are then almost always followed by sinking.

Sinking incur environmental clean-up charges along with salvage costs. A car is simply towed away.

One cannot make a car analogy with a boat.

 

[Tangler]

A car that sits in a driveway and begins incurring mechanical failures, simply won't start. A boat in a slip will sink. Cars don't catch fire sitting in the driveway, while electrical devices on a sitting boat can start fires, often catching other boats on fire. Fires are then almost always followed by sinking.

Sinking incur environmental clean-up charges along with salvage costs. A car is simply towed away.

One cannot make a car analogy with a boat.

Sorry...I disagree with everything you said. Same argument

 

[Shrew]

Sorry...I disagree with everything you said. Same argument

Could you elaborate on how a car will sink to the seabed sitting in a driveway??

 

[smitty477]

Sorry...I disagree with everything you said. Same argument

You disagree with everything that is said but the fact remains that you cannot get the insurance without a survey.
Apparently your thoughts are not in agreement with what is in place in the real world out there.

 

[Hawkshaw1]

smitty,
I just purchased an agreed hull policy on a Mainship 390, for about 10k more that I paid, from Geico/BOATUS. They never asked for a survey. Seems strange but that's the case.
I had a survey completed that showed minor issues that I could send them with a value above what I paid. I have had a small runabout policy with them for 25 years. The premium was about 1% of the agreed value.
Hawk

 

[Airstream345]

I wonder if the OP had the survey and closing yet?

 

[GH41]

I wonder if the OP had the survey and closing yet?

I recall it being scheduled for yesterday. He may have come to his senses and backed out.

 

[Tangler]

You disagree with everything that is said but the fact remains that you cannot get the insurance without a survey.
Apparently your thoughts are not in agreement with what is in place in the real world out there.

Ahh, so you do understand

 

[smitty477]

smitty,
I just purchased an agreed hull policy on a Mainship 390, for about 10k more that I paid, from Geico/BOATUS. They never asked for a survey. Seems strange but that's the case.
I had a survey completed that showed minor issues that I could send them with a value above what I paid. I have had a small runabout policy with them for 25 years. The premium was about 1% of the agreed value.
Hawk

That is great - perhaps send your insurance company contact to Tangler.
But his boat is likely much older and may (or may not) still require a survey.

FWIW - I did not need surveys on boats generally less than 15 years old dependent upon the insurance company at the time. Once they get over 25 years old I believe that it will be problematic.
But ....you never know so please get him the contact.

 

[slowgoesit]

Sorry...I disagree with everything you said. Same argument

Believe me, I get it, some people are just naturally disagreeable people!

 

[Tangler]

That’s me...I’m a rebel...

 

[slowgoesit]

That’s me...I’m a rebel...

Sounds like you and I would get along just fine!

 

[Ducatihottie]

My boat was surveyed. Look for the recent posts about blisters. Thanks.