Monday I place 10% cash down

[Ducatihottie]

Monday I place 10% cash down on my new used boat.

4 windows don't open, (windows I can't reach and probably won't open anyhow.

I mention this to the boats broker and he says, "that will be taken care of in the survey"

1. Should I get "windows must be fixed by owner" in the contract I sign tomorrow. Or is this really settled after the survey, (like the broker said).

2. Am I really going to spend about $1800 for survey, engine check and pulling it out for a hull check. This before I know if the owners going to pay to fix my windows?

3. What recourse do I have if the owner says no? The windows and any new problems. Am I out $1800 dollars?

4. Does paying for the survey guarantee me anything?

THANKS

 

[BruceK]

If loosening some stuck windows is as bad as it gets you`ll be lucky and happy to buy.
I get a conscience attack: if I know the windows are stuck,and take that into account in my offer, and the surveyor pings the windows, can (should) I ask for an allowance for the windows? Double dipping if I do? Sounds like the broker thinks it`s a "Survey allowance" item. That or he`s kicking the can down the road.
Depends on your agreement doc, but it`s usually effectively an option to buy which you decide to exercise or not post Survey. It`s common for the price to be renegotiated post Survey to take the nasties into account, but, there are sellers who won`t renegotiate, then your option is buy or walk.
The most valuable $1800 Survey is the one that says "NO! That one saves you way more than the $1800.
Surveys rarely nail every fault. A friend says that when buying a used car he feels like asking for a bucket and sponge to wash it, because that`s when he`ll spot the nasties. Expect some things to be missed, hope that everything important is not.
I haven`t answered each numbered question as posed, but I got close.

 

[Comodave]

Personally I don’t make demands before the offer and survey are completed. That way the seller mentality has sold the boat and will more than likely want to continue with the sale. BUT, I will have done a personal survey and will have found pretty much what the surveyor will find. My last survey, the surveyor asked me why I wasn’t a surveyor. So I go through the boat and determine what needs to be fixed and whether or not I want to go to survey. Then I make my price for the offer. I look at any major things that turn up in the survey as points to further reduce the final price. As stated above, if the stuck windows are the only problem then buy the boat. Attend the survey and ask questions. If the surveyor does not want you to accompany the survey, fins another surveyor.

 

[GregBrannon]

"Monday I place 10% cash down on my new used boat." = You've already bought the boat, it's in your garage, you've cruised it with family, friends, grandkids, etc. I recommend you back up a bit to where you can accept that this may not be your new boat.

"4 windows don't open": It's good that you've done your own pre-survey. Did you see anything else that you think could prevent you from buying the boat? If not, you're lucky!

The $1,800 is an investment to reduce your risk in the sale, maybe ownership. How you use the knowledge gained with that investment is up to you. If you decide after the survey that the boat is not for you, the $1,800 wasn't wasted. Do not consider the money spent on a survey a down payment. Pay particular attention to the surveyor's recommendations. Those may have to be addressed prior to getting insurance or within a short time.

"Should I get "windows must be fixed by owner" in the contract": Don't require the owner to simply "fix" anything. Spell out exactly what you require. For example, in this case you may require, "All windows must open and close."

"the boats broker . . . says": (1) The broker is saying that the survey should document your concerns. (2) Everything the seller's broker says is suspect.

"What recourse do I have?": Negotiation to complete the sale according to the agreement you'll sign occurs after the survey. If you cannot reach a suitable agreement, document why your deposit should be returned based on the agreement you've signed and move on a bit wiser.

"Does paying for the survey guarantee me anything?": The money you pay to the marina and the surveyors is part of the boat buying process and should result in their performance to some standard or according to the agreement you have with them, nothing else.

These are exciting times for you. Best of luck!

Greg.

 

[BruceK]

Is the Agreement "Subject to Finance"? Might help if it is.

I have added a clause to Purchase Agreements saying the Agreement is subject to XYZ Insurance Co. agreeing to insure the boat without any special premium loading or exclusions or conditions based on the condition of the boat.

 

[smitty477]

Monday I place 10% cash down on my new used boat.

4 windows don't open, (windows I can't reach and probably won't open anyhow.

I mention this to the boats broker and he says, "that will be taken care of in the survey"

1. Should I get "windows must be fixed by owner" in the contract I sign tomorrow. Or is this really settled after the survey, (like the broker said).

2. Am I really going to spend about $1800 for survey, engine check and pulling it out for a hull check. This before I know if the owners going to pay to fix my windows?

3. What recourse do I have if the owner says no? The windows and any new problems. Am I out $1800 dollars?

4. Does paying for the survey guarantee me anything?

THANKS

How has this boat been presented to you? Does the listing say things like 'all systems operational' , 'engines in great shape and ready to cruise'?
If these are not clearly in writing before you get surveys done I would suggest getting all items out to the broker/seller in an email ahead of time so you have a baseline to work from. Some other potential issues:
- do you know exactly what conveys with the sale
- do you know if the seller(s) have clear title and ability to sell
- do you have known performance characteristics
- do you know if the boat was ever swamped sunk or had major work done
- will you get all maintenance records and are they complete
If you do not have these asked and answered in writing then you really cannot complain when item(s) become an issue later on.
I do not know how you came to know the windows do not work but if that is the only item this will be the best condition used boat I would have ever heard of.
Good luck

 

[smitty477]

Personally I don’t make demands before the offer and survey are completed. That way the seller mentality has sold the boat and will more than likely want to continue with the sale. BUT, I will have done a personal survey and will have found pretty much what the surveyor will find. My last survey, the surveyor asked me why I wasn’t a surveyor. So I go through the boat and determine what needs to be fixed and whether or not I want to go to survey. Then I make my price for the offer. I look at any major things that turn up in the survey as points to further reduce the final price. As stated above, if the stuck windows are the only problem then buy the boat. Attend the survey and ask questions. If the surveyor does not want you to accompany the survey, fins another surveyor.

"BUT, I will have done a personal survey and will have found pretty much what the surveyor will find."
How would this work out for a typical new boater who has no skills in assessing the condition of a boat?

 

[sunchaser]

Ducati
Who recommended the surveyor? If the seller or his broker take a time out to find one yourself. Good luck, but you can walk if you're not comfortable - right now.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Of course your offer will be "pending survey results". You don't say much about the boat itself, or the cost.

If having the windows "unstuck" is the most important finding in the survey it is up to you. Deduct from the offering price or request the windows be redone.

My guess is that there will be bigger fish to fry once the survey comes back.

pete

 

[bayview]

Nothing gets settled in a survey.
It gets noted and then it is up to you to cancel the deal or negotiate any repairs.
I hope that you said "offer subject to both survey and sea trial satisfactory to the buyer" in your contract.

 

[cosmo]

Where did we land on the Volvo engines debate? Same? Replacement?

 

[Shrew]

"BUT, I will have done a personal survey and will have found pretty much what the surveyor will find."
How would this work out for a typical new boater who has no skills in assessing the condition of a boat?

You might find everything a surveyor finds, you might not. Did you take a moisture meter and do thorough readings? Did you thoroughly tap the hull? Was the boat hauled?

As for a boater not skilled in assessing boats.....that is why people hire surveyors.

Also, the only conditions in a P&S should be:

Subject to: Survey, Seatrial, Financing, Insurance, Sale of Current vessel (if applicable), Acceptance Deadlines, Closing Deadlines.

You need to wait for the list of defects from the survey, which should include the windows. Make sure to point them out to the surveyor so it is notated in the survey. Then go back and discuss either remediation or readjustment of offer price.

Personally, I don't want seller remediation. They are going to contract the cheapest fix possible. re-negotiate offer price and get the items fixed with your marine mechanic (or yourself).

 

[Ducatihottie]

SHREW and all, great advice

There will also be a complete survey.