Modern Retro Trawler

[open_road_toad]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and I'd like to give you a background before I ask my question that I hope someone can answer.

My wife and I have two sons and the youngest has moved out. My wife has landed a remote work job so we are seriously considering selling the house and buying a "Trawler" to live on while we do the Great Loop. I started watching the sailing YouTube channels during the "lockdown" and I absolutely love how these "kids" refit an old sailboat. IMHO It's the equivalent of what's known in the classic car world of a "modern retro", which I am very familiar with.

That being said that last bit of information that is relevant to my question is this: We have decided on a Nordic Tug 34.

BUT...I really like the idea of buying an old Grand Banks single engine boat and doing a complete system refit, a "restomod" if you like. I'm talking new modern diesel engine, fuel tank, AC, electric head, modern gas stove, electronics with solar, new wiring and redoing the interior with white and light wood, like a modern boat.

Is this a thing? I ask because I cannot find any YouTube videos or blogs of anyone doing this. I've found some old trawler refit stuff but nothing like this. What are your thoughts on such a project? I figure if I have 250k to spend on a Nordic Tug then what if I spent 80k on a Grand Banks with good bones and then spent the rest on a complete redo like I mentioned above?

I really appreciate the feedback in advance. I look forward to becoming an active member of this form and learning and sharing.

Todd

 

[mvweebles]

Just finishing-up a 'frame-off' restoration of a 1970 Willard 36. Financially, it's pretty close to the worst possible decision. There is no Meachams Auction to sell a restored boat so there is no resto-mod market. You might improve the value of a $80k boat by 50%. Maybe. You could easily dump $200k or more. Money pours out in $5000 chunks, not $1000. Want to re-do the DC system? 2/0 cable is $15/ft. 600A bus bars are $130/ea. Breakers are $75/ea. Want a new AC/DC main panel? $5k. Plus labor. On another thread, I just posted an open-checkbook restoration of an old Chris Craft by a billionaire. Spent over $2m on the restoration. Boat has been for sale for 2-years for $1m. Meaning a 50% haircut - and that's only if someone gives him his asking price.

I work remote and travel a LOT. Have for about 20-years. How well it works really depends on the nature of the job. If the job is expected to have Zoom calls regularly, the Digital Nomad thing is difficult (meaning if you plan to keep moving in a boat or RV). Too many holes in service. My wife and I just returned from camping in a state park in the Florida Panhandle. I missed a couple meetings due to lousy cell service, and worked most of the 5-hour drive home and had an important call drop. After a while, it's embarrassing. Sure, I try to be stationary for important calls, but it doesn't always work out that way. Being on the down-low sucks.

On the other hand, if the work is truly episodic with deliverables - say, editing contracts or something, then would work fine. But if your wife is expected to have office-like interactions via remote, well, cruising will be stressful. One of those things that looks fabuous on-paper but fails in real-world.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[Mako]

@ORT, I think you and your wife and your son would appreciate a larger boat than 34ft. A nice 40-44ft tri-cabin trawler with 2 cabins and 2 heads (the typical Grand Banks) style, would be best. With a budget of $250k you can find something that doesn't need to be gutted and rebuilt.

Stick to a purchase price of $200k so you have the $50k for the upgrades, repairs and remodels that will definitely be needed.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. ort. Welcome aboard. Regarding your "resto-mod"...IF you spend in the neighbourhood of $80K on a Grand Banks, depending on the specific vessel, of course, I would expect you shouldn't have to do a complete re-do.
Yes, some systems will need to be addressed BUT, even at today's prices, you should have a usable vessel without a ton of work.


MY opinion is an old(er) motor in good condition is preferable to a "new and improved" motor with the associated electronic controls and do-dads attached. The amount of $$ you will spend for increased "efficiency" would take decades for that added cost to amount to the small amount of fuel savings.

 

[ranger58sb]

BUT...I really like the idea of buying an old Grand Banks single engine boat and doing a complete system refit, a "restomod" if you like. I'm talking new modern diesel engine, fuel tank, AC, electric head, modern gas stove, electronics with solar, new wiring and redoing the interior with white and light wood, like a modern boat.

Is this a thing?

What are your thoughts on such a project? I figure if I have 250k to spend on a Nordic Tug then what if I spent 80k on a Grand Banks with good bones and then spent the rest on a complete redo like I mentioned above?

MY opinion is an old(er) motor in good condition is preferable to a "new and improved" motor with the associated electronic controls and do-dads attached. The amount of $$ you will spend for increased "efficiency" would take decades for that added cost to amount to the small amount of fuel savings.

Toad, if you enjoy doing the work, could be a thing. If you don't, could be grim. If you have to hire most of it done... starting with a $80K Grand Banks and adding $170K worth of work to it... will likely net you with a GB worth about $90K.

I think RT's right: Preemptively swapping out the engine (assuming the original is in decent shape) probably isn't for the better. That's often another "boat's worth $80K, spending $60K to swap engines, boat's now worth $90K." And the original diesel may well outlast you and your children's children... with good care.

Made up numbers just for discussion, but I expect you get the drift.

Still, back to the idea: could be feasible, maybe even fun, depending.

-Chris

 

[CharlieO.]

Todd, If you buy an older trawler likely you will be doing all those projects anyway except maybe the engine.

You just buy one that has the projects you are willing to take on.

I'll be doing most of those except the engine and interior, over the next couple years.

I would have loved the small Nordic or Sundowner Tugs, but just wouldn't work for us with just one 9 year old. Needed two separate sleeping areas.

 

[koliver]

What you are suggesting is definitely a "thing" among the wooden boat crowd. They even have their own magazine. Check out Port Townsend, where a whole community of shipyards is supported by that crowd, and some shipyards in Sidney BC.
There are also builders who do wonderful work on new boats that are fully modern, but look retro, like Jesperson in Sidney.
You can spend what you have and end up with a beauty that can still compete in the wooden boat festivals.
As for GB redos? I don't know of any.

 

[mvweebles]

What you are suggesting is definitely a "thing" among the wooden boat crowd.

An incredible restoration of a 1930's Herreschoff one-design sailboat from a well-healed NY Yacht Club member. Polished 34-min video. I believe the boat has been sold



https://youtu.be/oqaSWjtF8PI


Peter

 

[twistedtree]

If the goal is to go through the process of creating a restomod, then by all means do it. But if the goal is to have a boat to use, then start with something as close as possible to what you want, and in the best shape you can afford. You will still be surprised how much money you will sink into it.

 

[slowgoesit]

I second the recommendation that you look for a boat larger than 34' for two plus one. Even for just TWO, I would recommend at least a 40' boat, but even better 48' to 49. We chose a 50' boat, and don't regret it one bit. But in our case, the boat decided the length, rather than the length deciding the boat, if you get my drift. For example, not all 44' long boats are equal, with some having WAY more room than others.
On the idea of a single engine Grand Banks . . . They can be found, but generally MUCH less common than twins. We've always had singles, first a Monk Design 34, than a Grand Banks 36, now a 50' Beebe.

On the idea of buying one with "Good Bones" and refitting/re-powering, unless you really REALLY want to spend $80k for the initial boat, the next 2 to 5 years, and $150k to 250k more on a labor of love, so you end up with a $175k to $200k boat when you're finished . . .

I highly, HIGHLY recommend you look for a boat that is as close to what you are looking for, IN THE BEST CONDITION YOU CAN FIND from the get go.

I would recommend looking at Defever, Marine Trader, CHB, Willard, as well as Grand Banks, to name a few. You may have to wait a year or two to see if the market calms down a bit from the buying frenzy that has occurred in the last two years, but they can be had in the $150k to $200k range if you look hard enough! Good luck in your search!

 

[JLD]

I would offer that you also consider how long you plan to keep the boat, to help decide if you idea makes financial sense. If you plan of keeping the boat for a long time, then a refit might be a great idea. If you plan on just keeping the boat to run the loop, you will only get a percentage of the refit money back when you sell. If you are buying a boat for just the loop, then look for a boat that has already gone through a refit, perhaps a boat that someone who has just completed the loop is selling.

Jim

 

[Hippocampus]

TT offers great advice above. We bought at the top of the Covid market knowing we paid a premium for a Bristol condition boat. Having gone through the exercise before knew inspite of a excellent survey other than some water ingress into the boat deck (placed $40k in escrow for repair) there would be things. And sure enough there’s “things”. Expect another $50-60k to be gone beyond the $25k to redo all electronics at my choice.
So it depends upon how long you want to wait before cruising and what level of perfection you will accept. I have much of the skills to do much of the work but want to cruise not refurbish. I want to start with everything top notch knowing gremlins will appear. I know what I don’t know so defer to others. I say this after having converted a transatlantic racer into a cruising boat. Yes pride of accomplishment and at the end it was truly my boat. But didn’t understand what it means to do that and wouldn’t do it again. There’s boat builders and boat users. Rarely is one person both. Think that applies to major refits as well.

 

[High Wire]

My two cents would be to move up to 40-45 ft if you are going to run a business while living on a boat. Don’t limit yourself to a single.

 

[rustyScupper]

Hi Todd,
Going through the same process you described. Found a reasonable condition and lower priced 40 year-old CHB trawler and starting the upgrade renovation process. I'm about a year into my modern trawler transformation process and recommend thinking about upgrades incrementally and make those changes that improve how you use your boat.

Like other folks said, you should emphasize understanding what you want to use the boat for and then plan your upgrades. The experience of getting away from the dock will greatly improve your understanding of the changes needed.

My own journey has been:
1. Navigation, electronics, radios, radar, AIS, etc.
2. Sanitation tanks, plumbing, fittings
3. Thru-hull valves, raw water hoses, t-bolt clamps
4. Electrical power, batteries, inverter-charger, shore power outlet
5. Interior lighting LED strips and accent lights
6. New autopilot, high-resolution GPS
7. Mobile internet, LTE/5G router, 5G marine antenna
8. NPR / PPOE video cameras, surveillance, docking / backup cameras
9. Fuel filter upgrade, fuel polishing system
10. Diesel heater, forced air, and mini-split unit

Lastly, single screw Lehman diesel. Lot's of maintenance and upgrades, but likely this engine will outlive me if well maintained. Getting a new main engine is low on the list.

Best of luck on your ventures!
-Rusty

 

[open_road_toad]

Thank you all so much for the feedback as that is exactly what I was looking for. The quote "there's boat builders and boat users and rarely are they the same person" is perfect.

I'm gonna go the route of the people who suggested getting the best old boat I can find in the best condition. I do like the idea of installing a modern Yanmar inline diesel and electrical system system but, like someone pointed out, how long would I have to use it to see a ROI on the fuel savings the modern engine will get me.

Thanks again everyone, I'll be sure to check in frequently with progress of my boat search.

Todd

 

[Unclematt]

In 2019 I bought a 30 year old boat I knew needed some updating. 150K and a lot of hours later it is almost where I want it. Admittedly I did get carried away with some things which I will never regret doing. My advice is make a budget, triple it then add 10%. Boat bucks don't go as far as they used to.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Sounds good to me. Yeah lots of good used boats out there in your price range. Spend a couple months and do some driving, look at lots of boats.

 

[Mila Vera]

Mainship Trawlers (no exterior wood) are a great Loop boat and many are bought just to complete the Loop and then sold at the end one or two years. We have had numerous come through our marina. They sell immediately. Most can be purchased from $80,000-250,000. Just a thought ......first mate of Mila Vera

 

[FWT]

Seems to me there is a yard in Oxford MD that specializes in doing serious work on Grand Banks. You might track them down and have a chat. They might have a line on one they did restoration work on that is available for purchase. Might be in Trappe, MD which is nearby

 

[Choices]

I did something similar to what you want to do.

I build furniture and restore cars as a hobby, and redoing a GB is work.

I have touched everything, except the fuel tanks and Lehman. Why change a bullet proof engine that burns 1.5 gph?

A single is so much easier to work on in a 36.

To do this yourself you better be good, know someone good, or have deep pockets.

You can visit our blog, grandbankschoices, and get an idea of what we have done, and what your up against.

The offered advice is good, find the best boat out there. Walk docks and talk to owners. Most are sold by word of mouth due to demand. I would look at a classic layout for the room.

Good luck!

 

[OldDan1943]

I agree, a mid 40ft boat. 2 separate staterooms, 2 heads if possible. 1 dry head aka shower compartment.

Grand Banks? No thank you..... way too much exterior teak. Exterior teak is a drug. Gotta keep it up. Lots of time and money. You will lose interest and employ people to maintain the teak. BIG buck. You will discover the workers will put their kids through college by mainting you teak.

 

[Comodave]

We have had 24 boats in our married life. I love working on boats. However having said that if you do not have a background in boat work I think you may be better served buying a boat in good condition and do some minor projects to make it your own. I would not begin to do a repower if the engine is in good condition but just out of date. You will never begin to recoup the money spent.

I would consider going larger than 34’ for 3 to liveaboard, or even 2. It will end up like a camping trip and sooner or later you or your wife, or both, will decide that it isn’t enjoyable. At a minimum I would look at 40’+. Two cabins and two heads.

 

[twistedtree]

The key is are you looking for a project, or are you looking for a boat? Now I get the whole project thing. I have two project cars sitting in my shop and they give me great pleasure working on them. But they are 80% about the project, and 20% about the resulting car.


In both cars and boats, going down the project path as a better way to get a car/boat is a fool's errand.

 

[open_road_toad]

Not familiar with those boats (Mainship) so I just looked them up. I do like them however it appears that they are twin engine boats. I'm wanting a single engine.
Thank you for the suggestion though, much appreciated.
Todd

 

[open_road_toad]

My wife and I are planning on attending Trawlerfest this year in Baltimore. I'm hoping to be able to see lots of old classic boats as well as new(er) ones. Really looking forward to it.
Todd

 

[Mako]

@ORT, I'm taking my wife down this Saturday to Trawlerfest in Stuart. Hope it's worth the 2 hour drive.

 

[mvweebles]

@ORT, I'm taking my wife down this Saturday to Trawlerfest in Stuart. Hope it's worth the 2 hour drive.

Mako - can you post an update after you visit TF? I haven't been to one in 20-years, before PMM purchased. At that time, there was a mix of brokerage boats, new boats, and many private owners who would allow attendees to crawl. My sense is the private-owner aspect has dwindled.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

If the goal is to go through the process of creating a restomod, then by all means do it. But if the goal is to have a boat to use, then start with something as close as possible to what you want, and in the best shape you can afford. You will still be surprised how much money you will sink into it.

Indeed.

Wifey and I have been talking about renaming our new-to-us fixer-upper Discovery... or maybe Surprise!... and I think Trickle Down could work, too.

For all the work I'm finding needs doing... and for the families we're feeding with hired projects.

This on a boat that was in neglected but reasonable condition. My project list, stuff done so far, is somewhere around 200 line items... with another 100 or so to go. About a third of all those were more or less expected.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

Not familiar with those boats (Mainship) so I just looked them up. I do like them however it appears that they are twin engine boats. I'm wanting a single engine.
Thank you for the suggestion though, much appreciated.
Todd

Depending on the model, Mainship has built plenty of both twins and singles. Some models can be found with either.

 

[Mako]

Mako - can you post an update after you visit TF?

Wilco Peter. Hope there is good attendance, and with Covid dwindling there should be more boats on display. As of today the gov’t doesn’t require us to wear masks indoors anymore. My fogged up eye glasses are happy!