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Old 02-04-2022, 10:08 PM   #81
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naw. This comment seems a little too harsh. This is common advice from diesel mechanics to return some lubricity to the fuel in this age of low-sulfur diesel. It's commonly done, and atf [u]is[u] a "lubricity improver", without being advertised as such.
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:24 PM   #82
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Recently the newly commissioned Australian icebreaker delivered 1M litres of special Antarctic blend diesel fuel to our base there. Discharge requires pumping it from offshore via flexible hose to tanks onshore, very carefully, there was an on land spill once. Boats patrol the hose throughout the operation,penguins jumping aboard are repelled.
Anyway, here`s the fuel analysis, a few pages, but the composition seems to be disclosed: https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/co...iesel-fuel.pdf
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Old 02-04-2022, 11:25 PM   #83
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Show me an A/B test and I might believe.

Otherwise I’m reminded of the sheer number and confidence of those who convinced themselves that acetone in fuel was a good idea.

I wonder how many fuel problems would be avoided if the boating magazines simply stopped telling everyone to keep filling up their fuel tanks to a capacity level that all but ensures they haul around huge volumes of fuel they won’t use until old, and then fill em up again.
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Old 02-05-2022, 05:55 AM   #84
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Not saying this means anything, but...

Four F350 diesels and one F450 from 1993 to 2017, 250,000 to 450,000 miles, never an additive of any sort, mostly highway with good loads. Never an engine problem of any sort.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:13 AM   #85
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Hi,

if it would be good for a diesel engine, then i would think this information can be found in the manuals, i will just find there "do not add additives" to the oil or fuel.

Hard to believe that Cummins would instruct you to shorten engine life.

Here, the fuel is at least additive lubricated by the injection pump / nozzles, hard to believe you wouldn’t have this in the US.

NBs
Valvtect diesel in the US claims to have all kinds of additives to improve performace, efficiency, longevity, etc. I try to use it exclusively. What do others here think? It's generally no more expensive than common diesel fuel at a dock, so I figure I might as well try to use it.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:19 AM   #86
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Not saying this means anything, but...

Four F350 diesels and one F450 from 1993 to 2017, 250,000 to 450,000 miles, never an additive of any sort, mostly highway with good loads. Never an engine problem of any sort.
And were any of them common rail? If so, you will have injector failures sooner rather than later. It's all about lubricity.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:29 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Caballero II View Post
Naw. This comment seems a little too harsh. This is common advice from diesel mechanics to return some lubricity to the fuel in this age of low-sulfur diesel. It's commonly done, and ATF [U]is[U] a "lubricity improver", without being advertised as such.
I didn't think it was harsh. I just meant that one experience is not indicative of much. In any case, if, if ATF is a lubricity improver then that is a good thing. But how do we know how much per gallon needs to be added to raise lubricity to the standard required by common rail engines? And many lubricity-improving products also raise cetane levels. Does ATF do this also? Seems to me using ATF may be just guesswork with no assurance that the goals being sought are actually reached. Indeed they may be but I am standing by for technical references, sincerely.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:36 AM   #88
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One comment on the subject as this thread is heating up.
If any additive would be necessary for engine to last, how many engine failure would we see?
How many people are using additive in diesel engines of all sort? 20%? Let say 50% what I doubt.
This would mean that the 50% remaining would face early engine damage? Far from reality I guess.

L
It's not engine damage, it's injector and injection pump failure either of which is inexpensive to repair. Witness the Bosch CP4 injection pump explosions on Chevy Duramax engines. These pumps were designed with European lubricity standards in mind. North American lubricity standards are lower. Own a common rail diesel? No lubricity improver used? Some owner down the road will experience a pump,or injectors failure sooner rather than later.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:56 AM   #89
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Yes… Algae does not grow in tanks… technically it’s fungus… end result is the same… Algae needs sun light which clearly a dark tank won’t have….

“diesel bug”
More often than not it's bacteria, which is an animal.
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Old 02-05-2022, 07:02 AM   #90
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The older diesels (as many of these trawlers are) had different requirements than the newer engines. The sulfur content may be the "lower quality" being referred to.
Change in sulfur content does not affect the "quality" of the fuel. The 7.3L International engine is electronically controlled, hydraulically actuated (HEUI), so not old school per se.

Removal of sulfur, called hydro-treating, does remove some lubricity from fuel, which then must be replaced with additives at the refinery or rack. Again, off spec, low lubricity fuel is rare, but it can happen.

When ULSD was first introduced 20 years ago it did cause shrinkage of O rings and leaks at injection pumps, but those have all been resolved by now. There is no difference in operation, regardless of engine, for high vs. low sulfur diesel. Modern over the road diesels, equipped with catalysts, can't run on high sulfur diesel, but that's only because of the cat.
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Old 02-05-2022, 07:09 AM   #91
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It's not engine damage, it's injector and injection pump failure either of which is inexpensive to repair. Witness the Bosch CP4 injection pump explosions on Chevy Duramax engines. These pumps were designed with European lubricity standards in mind. North American lubricity standards are lower. Own a common rail diesel? No lubricity improver used? Some owner down the road will experience a pump,or injectors failure sooner rather than later.
Agree to an extent. Conventional rotary injection pumps are a different animal, and are more sensitive to lubricity issues. These are used on many marine diesels including some Deeres. I ran a VW Beetle diesel, which had a Bosch rotary pump, for 10 years and religiously used a lubricity improver.

US diesel fuel lubricity does not meet many diesel engine manufacturer requirements. However, in spite of that, I am not seeing wholesale pump failures in common rail or other systems. If we were, European diesel engine and car/truck manufacturers would not sell and warrant the product in the US.

Having said all that, I am an advocate of lubricity additives like Stanadyne Perf Formula, it improves cetane as well as lubricity.
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Old 02-05-2022, 09:06 AM   #92
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First, 120,000 miles is just getting broken in for a quality diesel -- I expect good diesels to go 10,000 hours or more before needing anything besides oil changes and other routine stuff. I have talked to people who have gone much farther.


Second, why would you think that you know better than the manufacturer how to treat the engine? This certainly voids any warranty.


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Old 02-05-2022, 09:31 AM   #93
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Not saying this means anything, but...

Four F350 diesels and one F450 from 1993 to 2017, 250,000 to 450,000 miles, never an additive of any sort, mostly highway with good loads. Never an engine problem of any sort.
Your results are similar to millions of other diesel users. Thanks
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Old 02-05-2022, 11:50 AM   #94
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Research

Steve, thanks for the link to your site and for the extensive interviews and research provided to all of us via your site. Great info for all of us following this thread.
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Old 02-05-2022, 01:53 PM   #95
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When I purchased my Chevy 2500 (used) my mechanic advised putting a cheap quart of transmission fluid with every 20gal of fuel during fill-up. Since then I've put 120K miles on the truck with no injector issues. Does this process make sense in a marinized diesel environment?
You didn't say how old the engines are? Or what type of injection systems you are working with?

We have used gallons of ATF in the diesel fuel for years on older engines at a ratio of 1gal to 100gal every other tank full on marine and HD trucks.
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Old 02-05-2022, 01:53 PM   #96
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More often than not it's bacteria, which is an animal.

Actually no. If it’s a bacteria, it’s a bacteria, not an animal! Sorry Steve! ;-)

Jim, retired biologist.
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:24 PM   #97
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Since trucks are being referenced, this from Engine manufacturers:

Volvo recommends any required additive be added at the fuel terminal.

Detroit Diesel recommends using Top Tier fuels, fuels that have registered and met certain standards. In some ways this is a road equivalent of Valvtect.

Cummins endorses two Power Service products, Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost and Diesel Fuel Supplement + Cetane Boost.

For our Freightliner trucks and our Thomas school buses, we use all Valvtect fuel, but on the road when unable to get Valvtect we will add their Diesel Guard product.
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:41 PM   #98
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Thanks B. Once I learned about Valvtect, that's all I use unless I have no choice. I also use their BioGuard during winter layup as was recommended by a Valvetect customer service tech. They have very responsive customer service btw which is always good to see.

Electric buses seem to be the new rage and should become pretty common in the near future as more cities and town are trying to be more green. I noticed the governor of california has now made gas leaf blowers illegal. I'm not going to argue the pros/cons here, but those kinds of laws worry me and I wonder how the landscapers trying to make ends meet deal with this new expense. I get it that electric is cleaner and quieter, but if you are a professional and have to blow leaves all day long to make a living, it seems like an unfair burden. It also bothers me because it wouldn't be a big leap to outlaw small gas-powered outboards next, then bigger ones, then diesel-powered pleasure boats, and so on.....
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:14 PM   #99
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Actually no. If it’s a bacteria, it’s a bacteria, not an animal! Sorry Steve! ;-)

Jim, retired biologist.
Yep, sorry you are obviously correct and have the bona fides. Should have left it at, "it's bacteria...";-)

"Are Bacteria Animals or Plants?
Bacteria are neither animals nor plants. With bacteria sharing similar processes and characteristics to plants and animals it’s understandable why people would ask, “are bacteria animals or plants?”. Bacteria are single-celled, prokaryotic organisms in comparison to animals and plants which are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms. Because bacteria are prokaryotic, they do not have a nucleus and no membrane-bound organelles. In contrast, plants and animals are made up of eukaryotic cells, which means they have a nucleus and membrane-bound organelles like mitochondria or golgi apparatus."
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:45 PM   #100
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I think you must believe that your mechanic is smarter than all the engineers that work for Chevy...
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