Missing Firefighters Update

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menzies

menzies

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The tackle box of one of the two firefighters missing off the Florida Coast since Friday was found 50 miles off St Augustine. A sister of one of them believes they are leaving bread crumbs for the searchers.

Hope this all ends well. The weather has been very calm this past week around here - though as we all know nasty storms can kick up suddenly from out of nowhere.
 
If the have been in the Gulf Stream for even just several days, the search area becomes enormous. Without an EPIB or PLB which I am guessing has not been activated, their chances diminish every minute



At this point only will, water and flotation are the main survival highpoints.....right after EPIRB/PLB.
 
psneeld said:
If the have been in the Gulf Stream for even just several days, the search area becomes enormous. Without an EPIB or PLB which I am guessing has not been activated, their chances diminish every minute



At this point only will, water and flotation are the main survival highpoints.....right after EPIRB/PLB.
Click to expand...

An auto-release EPIRB would be best along with an auto-release life raft.
 
OldDan1943 said:
An auto-release EPIRB would be best along with an auto-release life raft.
Click to expand...


not necessarily...some boats don't have good locations for the auto release and they can get fouled....yes one can manually release them and take them...but in a panic situation....not always thought of. sometimes the boat rolls and the auto releases aren't deep enough to release...then you are forced to swim under in less than perfect situations.



One has to have a well drilled in their mind plan of several abandon ship scenarios and the grabbing of survival gear is tantamount along with flotation.
 
These two were/are on a positive flotation boat. It wont sink enough to even release an auto epirb.
 
diver dave said:
These two were/are on a positive flotation boat. It wont sink enough to even release an auto epirb.
Click to expand...
I saw 24 foot Robalo in one article.



Any year of boat reported? I have seen plenty of boats that were supposedly positive floatation equipped sink to where the tip of the bow was all that was above the water.
 
That is why whenever we are underway we are wearing auto inflatable PFDs. We also have a strobe and a PLB attached to the PFD. I just wish that the manufacturers of the inflatable PFDs would make attachment points for at least the PLB. I had to sew some velcro mounts onto ours and figure out how to get it through the sewing machine without sewing into the bladder.
 
diver dave said:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.th..._908fd83e6cb102672d29bd681d2222ba790d1532.jpg
Click to expand...




Ha Ha...manufacturer's brochure....sorry couldn't resist....:D



bet they all say that.... but I still have salvaged many a "full flotation" boat that was mostly sunk.


Probably for all kinds of reasons...but older boats say a 20 year old Robalo (or others) might have serious water absorption in the foam flotation or owners have removed some/damaged some.


some float well (Boston Whaler still leads the pack in my experience)...but many don't...especially yhe ones that aren't required by regs to....but the manufacturer claims they do.
 
Yeah; for sure old foam can take on water. I had a 22’ whaler on my davits draining foam for a year. Neighbor had a 20 something Robalo sitting low in the water too.
But a rolled boat in a thunderstorm may outrun the now swimming occupants in a windy thunderstorm. Thats the working theory on the two Jupiter teen boys on the seacraft some years ago. Their boat found in europe still floating. Boys never recovered.
 
psneeld said:
One has to have a well drilled in their mind plan of several abandon ship scenarios and the grabbing of survival gear is tantamount along with flotation.
Click to expand...
My late skipper used to delight in telling others that I was the only person he ever knew who was disappointed not to have been shipwrecked. He was referring to my relentless research & planning for just such an event. No, it didn't happen, but close late one night off the coast of Nicaragua when a freighter deliberately tried to run us down--twice. When I sent our distress call to the Coast Guard I was grateful I'd had the foresight to print & laminate it in advance & leave it by the shortwave radio. No thinking of what to say at all; all I had to do was read the script & add our coordinates. Fortunately we didn't have to take to the liferaft, but we were ready, & so was our abandon ship bag. However, I think the mental prep was what made it all go smoothly in spite of an uncomfortable emergency event.
 
diver dave said:
Yeah; for sure old foam can take on water. I had a 22’ whaler on my davits draining foam for a year. Neighbor had a 20 something Robalo sitting low in the water too.
But a rolled boat in a thunderstorm may outrun the now swimming occupants in a windy thunderstorm. Thats the working theory on the two Jupiter teen boys on the seacraft some years ago. Their boat found in europe still floating. Boys never recovered.
Click to expand...
Lots of possibilities...they could have hung on to the hull for days and could have died of many reasons. Remember the football layers on the west coast. Didn't one swim away from the boat for unknown reasons?


Will to live is the single most important survival tool.
 
I have been following this in the boating section of The Hull Truth.
It is not uncommon for me to take my 24" boat offshore. I will invest in an EPIRB before going offshore again.
 
A PLB is great almost anywhere you are on the water.


Cell phones are great but....a dead spot could kill you... Same with radios.
 
latravcha said:
I have been following this in the boating section of The Hull Truth.
It is not uncommon for me to take my 24" boat offshore. I will invest in an EPIRB before going offshore again.
Click to expand...

We didn’t before, but since 2010, everytime we go offshore we take our EPIRB, our Spot, and our Iridium Satphone. You can’t have too many ways to call for help.
 
Group9 said:
We didn’t before, but since 2010, everytime we go offshore we take our EPIRB, our Spot, and our Iridium Satphone. You can’t have too many ways to call for help.
Click to expand...
Correct!!!!!! :thumb:


And call early and often if your safety is in doubt.


Sure be self sufficient....but even the best of the best can use a hand some days.
 
menzies said:
They are ending the active search at sundown today.

After 'extremely difficult' decision, active search for missing firefighters ends at sundown
Click to expand...

Hate to hear that, cant even imagine what it would be like lost at sea, or the families waiting and hoping. I bought an ACR PLB last year and carry it everywhere. My job gets me into some out of the way places, like the middle of a S. Louisiana sugarcane field in mid summer is like being in an ocean of green with no one around. PLB’s work there too if you get hurt or sick.
 
I was the MOB in an MOB situation a little over 30 years ago. I can tell you that treading water watching the boat cruise away when nobody on board notices that you're overboard is not awesome. I could see them in teh cockpit, but they weren't paying attention to the stern and couldn't hear me.

I watched until the boat was out of sight. I was wearing a PFD. There were no PLB's in the mid 1980's.

Fortunate it was clear and flat and they did turn around, managed to back track their course and found me.

There was enough boat traffic that I'm confident I would have been picked up by someone eventually.

Probably tougher to deal with when the boat sinks out from under you and there is less boat traffic around. At least I had hope.
 
psneeld said:
...
Cell phones are great but....a dead spot could kill you... Same with radios.
Click to expand...

Cell phones are also not noted for their ability to operate when wet. A PLB is designed to operate in harsh environments.
 
What kind of vessel were they on? I wouldn't venture far in unprotected waters in an open boat.
 
We decided to wear inflatable PFDs whenever we are underway now since we are older and can’t swim as well. Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers of inflatables don’t give you attachment points for PLBs and lights. We modified ours to have velcro attachment points for a PLB and a strobe. It wasn’t too hard but they should already come with the attachment points.
 
Comodave said:
We decided to wear inflatable PFDs whenever we are underway now since we are older and can’t swim as well. Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers of inflatables don’t give you attachment points for PLBs and lights. We modified ours to have velcro attachment points for a PLB and a strobe. It wasn’t too hard but they should already come with the attachment points.
Click to expand...

And a proper harness.
 
The larger center console fishing boats that are very common here in the south are designed for going far offshore and are quite seaworthy. They are taken out to the canyons and Gulfstream, and over to the Bahamas everyday. Some guys fell out of a Regulator off Nantucket a few years ago. Skipper did not have the engine shutoff lanyard deployed. Fortunately they had PFDs on. 3 1/2 years later, the boat showed up in Spain. https://newenglandboating.com/boat-lost-off-nantucket-found-in-spain/

It's not the craft, it's the captain. Apparently these men did not have a VHF on board, let alone an EPIRB or PLB.
We may never know what happened.
 
psneeld said:
Correct!!!!!! :thumb:


And call early and often if your safety is in doubt.


Sure be self sufficient....but even the best of the best can use a hand some days.
Click to expand...

Go as prepared as possible but do swallow your pride at the first indication and call for help. Don't let fear of embarrassment kill you. If you're taking on water or have a fire or are at sea and your engines have failed, then immediately make an initial call. If you're able to handle things and your next call is to report that, all anyone will feel is relief, no anger over you calling too early.

This fear of being premature or looking like one overreacted is common and very dangerous and not limited to boats. People die every day because they don't go to the ER feeling that they'll be told "it's nothing" or they'll feel stupid.

By calling early you can give information you may not be capable of providing later. Then when you activate your EPIRB, they know what was going on and understand what they're looking for.
 
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