Miles per year

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I just bought this boat with 18 year old twin John Deers. Averaged 200 hours a year. Only 1,600 mile (a year)

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I have a tiny cabin in the mountains of Colorado that I bought with scraped-together money 35-years ago. Originally just storage, stuff has been there so long that it has become the museum of my land-based life and has collected some old treasures, including a 1963 Triumph 650 Bonnevile that I bought in 1979; and a 1967 R69S BMW that I bought as a barn-find in 1986.

Where has the time gone? Days are long.....years are short. Sheesh - I gotta get going. This keyboard-cruising is sorta fun, but not a good enough proxy,

Peter

I think we all, me included missed the intent of the OP in this thread. I once made a passage to an underwater mountain range 300 NM off Oregon, there and back in 4 days, just to be able to say I did that. But it has not been in the plans ever since.
Now we pick a destination and explore it. Or multi destinations over longer trip.
 
While politically incorrect, wear can be accelerated by the size and weight of the occupants.

When a wide load walks down a passageway, and rubs both sides, wear is at least doubled.

Same for weight. Ever say in the favorite helm chair of a heavy person? Usually cushion is mashed flat and wear points worn out.

Too bad all crew can't be a size 2.....

Hmm - could be true. But then power boats would wear more as they tend to have larger owners and crew.

Another possibility is they could be "polishing" as they move around the cabin, so its actually a form of maintenance.

I need to put on some weight, as my boat is a bit lacking in the polishing department.
 
Wifey B: I agree days aboard is a more meaningful number.

Over the last 8 years, we have averaged:

270 days of boat use per year, although this year way down.

Boat movement 150 of those 270 days.

900 engine hours per year.

17000 nautical miles per year.

Our miles seem outrageously high to some but they really just reflect our speed as our boats cruise anywhere from 20 knots to 35 knots. Take our engine hours and go at 6 knots and you're talking 5400 which would fit in more with the most active cruisers here. We don't go more, just faster. :D

Our miles are limited by canals and locks.

220 to 230 days a year are cruising and 40 or so are local boating and one and two day trips.

Also don't think that every day we cruise we do 6 hours. We have a lot of moves of 2 to 4 hours, but then we have the occasional moves of 24 hours or more.

And when cruising we normally move every 2nd or 3rd day.

Oh, and 2020, so far: Sadly, :(

87 days. 620 hours. 14,300 nm. A decent amount of fast boating to nowhere, within 200 miles of home. Typical weekends of 9 hours at 20 knots, anchor, 9 hours home at 20 knots. Or a day out of 6 hours at 30 knots and then go out and do the same the next day. Or the overnight trip of 8 hours at 33 knots, anchor and return 9 hours at 30 knots. A couple of longer weekends mixed in with the long trip, anchoring, a day of Ribs, paddleboarding and kayaking and then the long trip home. We've landed nowhere since February except to fuel occasionally.

:speed boat::speed boat::speed boat::speed boat::speed boat:

I know trips to nowhere don't sound exciting but they still really serve the purpose of escape, relaxation, destressing. If anything, this year, our boating has been more needed than ever. Normally we would have had 3 more land trips to NC and SC by now, more places to go and things to do. On the water, we've been able to put the mess of things on land, far out of our minds. :)
 
How much of those sailing miles are you asleep? We powerboat folks with our typical cruising, even with a first mate, rarely sleep underway in part because there is actually something to see. If a sailing passage is several days and you are running port and stbd watch, well you can do the math. Maybe your 6K miles is really 3K actually awake and "enjoying" the experience of being tossed about. Sailors, you can't live with 'em and you can't shoot 'em.:hide::rofl:
 
Some actually like doing passages. Its different once off the shelf. Everything is subtly different. No air or light pollution so the sky is magnificent. The rhythm of a passage is wonderful. Very few people are ever truly alone. Always have someone nearby and their noise and hassle. People wilderness camping or mountaineering probably get the same sense. Although there’s crew being up on watch alone is an experience that brings many back to blue water over and over. Personally don’t get into the passage mindset where your mind is only into the passage and the land world with its obligations, concerns, anxieties and ultimately stupid nonsense disappears until 3-4 days out. Have done many passages on sail and just a few on power but found both equally gratifying. I sleep much better being rocked by the bosom of the sea. Have no difficulties with two shorter sleep periods. In short enjoy the passage as much and often more then the landfall. Sounds stupid but voyaging on a small boat with a good vessel and crew is addictive. As the old ad says about Mikey “try it.. you may like it”.
BTW there’s much to see and plenty to enjoy.
Would note this thread has gotten judgmental to a unnecessary degree in my view. Don’t see anything wrong with coastal cruising. In many aspects it’s more demanding being near the hard edges and needing to be concerned about depth and traffic. But I don’t get why there’s a need for me and others to defend passage making. For many it’s equally enjoyable. Why is that wrong and being met with hostility? Think some here don’t voyage on small boats. Respect many work or have worked on the sea but that’s not pleasure cruising. It’s really quite remarkable.
I’m sure for many it’s days on the boat that is the measure of their enjoyment. Respect that view. Still, your enjoyment has nothing to do with the original question asked. Please speak to the OP question. Thank you.
 
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Just checked our log, and was a bit surprised. Average cruise time was 8 months 4 days per year. Average nautical miles 3,860.
This year will be a bit more if we get through the canal as planned. So far we have traveled over 1,000 nautical miles last 38 days.

Hope that’s what the OP was looking for.
 
Thanks crusty. Enjoy and keep on trucking. I keep repeating whatever don’t kill you makes you stronger. Was trying see if there was any relationship between between condition of wear in interiors and miles per year. Started off with wife’s comment that sailboats compared to power boats of similar vintage and build quality tended to look more lived in.
So far have abstracted that may be due to fewer miles per year on power.
More salt and water brought into sail interiors. As sailors are in and out of the interior more frequently.
More dents from harnesses and tethers.
Life on a slant.
Although tried to direct thread to compare apples to apples comparing boats with similar programs ( voyaging boats) that has been unsuccessful and resulted in some degree of negativity. I miss used the word “used” and got deserved kick back.
Now think miles per year is only one factor and probably not the dominant one. Even things like how often the AC is run driving down interior humidity may be a factor. Realize that our sample size is too small to draw conclusions. The original premise maybe wrong and the subject is more complicated than I originally thought.
 
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Wifey B: Mama Cass had it right. :)


You have to figure out what works for you. Our most frequent pattern has been to cruise for 6 weeks, fly or otherwise go home for 3 weeks, then back to cruising for 6 more. We have good friends who alternate months. One month on the boat and one at home in Newport, RI. :)

You may find cruising every day of the year right for you or you may find 6 months on the boat and 6 on land. You may find you like to run outside or inside. You may find you like to do daytime only or may find you like cruising at night. You may like moving every day. We generally like to spend at least a day where we go. You may like small towns or may like major metropolitan areas. We like both. I think of us on the west coast trip home and we spent three weeks in both San Francisco and Los Angeles because we'd never been to either. On the other hand we made short stops and had overnights or two nights at Siuslaw, Charleston, Brookings, Eureka, Fort Bragg and Bodega Bay. We also play a game we call "leap frog" in which we don't try to stop everywhere on every trip. For instance if we're going to spend the summer in New England, we don't stop at the same towns going up that we do on the way home. Going north we might spend time in Savannah, but coming home might go to Hilton Head instead. Going north we might stay outside and miss the Chesapeake Bay mostly with maybe stops in Cape Charles, Ocean City and Cape May while returning we might spend two or three weeks in the Delaware and Chesapeake, even the Potomac. :D

You might like slow or medium or fast, it doesn't matter. You might prefer anchoring or marinas, it doesn't matter.

You can't possibly know yet what your favorite ways will be. What song you'll sing. You have to experience and figure it out based on that experience. :confused:

You also have to balance cruising and destinations. We love the time on the water, but we also love all the wonderful stops along the way and the people and the sites and the history. Along the way you can see the most incredible natural beauty and the wildlife and the sea life, but you can also learn more about the places you're going than you ever imagine. People just fly by places like Neah Bay. We didn't. We loved experiencing the craftsmanship of the Makah Indians. I know regulars here know my love for Apalachicola and I'll resist posting the song this time but I do love it. However, what I like most is visiting the incredible artists there in their studios and talking to them about their art. You may find Mardi Gras exciting in New Orleans, but it's celebrated in other places too. We hit Carnival in Panama City, Panama totally by accident and also had the most incredible Easter of my life in Port Antonio, Jamaica. You probably can't hit a town for a summer weekend that doesn't have some local festival taking place. Their street fair may not compare to a big city, but the smiles on the faces of the kids are incredible to witness. :D

Don't rush the answers. Let them happen naturally. ;)
 
BandB - I didn't realize you'd been to so many interesting places across both coasts. Do you have a blog or any reading? Sounds like really good stuff.

Hippo - if the exam question is why are the powerboats you look at seemingly less tired looking than sailboats, my best guess (and it is a guess) is you are seeing the toll deferred maintenance takes over time. And you're seeing the value of having a boat professionally detailed before listing.

The boats you are considering - N40 being a poster child, are popular amongst a certain demographic of person who is either new to cruising, or new to power cruising. And they are well funded. The systems are relatively reliable and repair is not perceived as a DIY project. There is a culture of maintenance with these boats - having a boat waxed annually is a considerable expense that almost no sailor endures.

Nordhavn especially has developed a value proposition that a well maintained boat is a good investment. It will sell fast and call a princely sum so it's actually an affordable ownership experience. A two-time N40 owner recently recounted his experience - compared to purchase price, he sold the first one for roughly what he paid for it (minus commission), sold the second in the midst of the Great Recession for a 12% haircut (minus commission). That only happens if the boat is kept in near-new condition. Grand Banks owners used to be finicky that way too.

Every cruising sailor I know emulates a DIY self-sufficient ethos with varying degrees of success. There tends to be more owner install items of varying quality. And I doubt many boats are presented to market fully detailed.

Mostly, I'd guess you are looking at boats that attract a focused and well heeled buyer. They are few options in power for the type of cruising you seek. Over time, that may change. The N46 line is old enough that there are many tired and worn examples on the market. The KK42 uses to be universally pristine - there are now tired and used examples available which has affected the valuation of the lineup. Willards have always been perceived as a utility boat and are almost strictly DIY owners and it shows. While I haven't been aboard a DD in years, I wouldn't be surprised if they were often a bit worn and tired as they are often chosen as an affordable alternative to a Nordhavn thus with more price sensitive and DIY prone owners.

PAE recognized early on that they needed to control the resale life cycle of their vessels, not just the initial sale. They have created a walled garden ownership experience complete with sequestered messaging.

In short, what you and your wife are seeing is not less abuse and miles, but money spent on maintenance and staging for resale - and a brand that attracts owners willing to spend the money. . My buddy with a 2014 52 foot power cat just spent $3500 to have the topside buffed and waxed. He's fortunate to keep the boat in his backyard and he wipes down the stainless steel every week. How many sailors would do that, even a relatively new HR or similar?

Peter
 
Very insightful post Peter. Only caveat is between the Outbound owners group, OCC, SDR and just circle of cruising friends have spent a lot of time on other people’s boats (fortunately usually with drink in hand). Many, if not most, approach their boats with open and deep pockets. It’s very rare maintenance is deferred as either the boat is their home or a major asset. When comparing apples to apples wife/I are only considering vessels at the same or nearly the same price point. We did at least one usually two short hauls per year for maintenance. Hull waxed twice a year. Stainless constantly chased after. Labor is cheaper in the islands so topsides/house detailing and dives done periodically as well. Don’t think there’s any meaningful difference between the loving attention a Nordhavn receives and the comparable class of sailboat. Still think there are some features of how small sail v power is used that’s operative. Think sailing may be harder on interiors then power. Of course once you get up to size of captained vessels that’s not true. Sails rarely go up except on owner operated sized boats.
 
Another thought: On sailboats you're more likely to be carrying stuff (like a bagged sail) in/out of the cabin. And the cabins often have more tight spaces where you're likely to bump into or rub against things, causing more wear.
 
BandB good post. We’ve been cruising for 7 years now after 30+ years of boat ownership. Found it amazing how different the experience is between them. Thought after ocean racing understood blue water. Was totally clueless. Thought I had some knowledge of how to be a tourist but found with long term cruising you live among the people in the areas you visit so it’s a totally different thing. Have had wonderful conversations started in hardware stores, launder mats and other mundane places leading to friendships and great enjoyment. Of course places are interesting but so are the people. Yes, there’s a us and them attitude between the cruising community and the general population but there’s many ways to break through. Strongly recommend volunteering in local projects wherever you find yourself. Wife calls me a social infarct. I’m happiest at anchor when there’s no one else around. Never get bored on a boat. Realize that’s a backward attitude and it annoys her but probably a reflection of spending my professional life dealing with other peoples problems. People are diverse.
Go cruising, go now, do whatever floats your boat.
 
R now a days with roller furling, in mast and in boom mainsail furlers, Dutchmans and lazy jacks it extremely rare sails are carried in and out of the interior on cruising boats. Racers are different. Most recent cruising boats have collision bulkheads. Light air sails and storm sails are either in the lazerette or forward locker so don’t enter the interior either.
 
R now a days with roller furling, in mast and in boom mainsail furlers, Dutchmans and lazy jacks it extremely rare sails are carried in and out of the interior on cruising boats. Racers are different. Most recent cruising boats have collision bulkheads. Light air sails and storm sails are either in the lazerette or forward locker so don’t enter the interior either.


I was thinking mostly of the cruisers that carry a code zero, spinnaker, etc. for occasional use. On boats where there's deck-accessible sail storage it's definitely a non-issue. But plenty of boats still cruising out there lack a good place to store a sail without carrying it into the cabin.
 
True enough R stand corrected but increasingly rare. Especially true for trade wind sailing which is what many cruisers aim for. We pulled out the Parasailor 4 times in 7 years. Decided to go with no main and double headsails on poles instead. Much safer. Can be raised, reefed and struck by one person from the cockpit given headsails already on furlers.(solent rig but also done with any double headsail rig). Maybe it’s different on other oceans but the North Atlantic is plenty windy when you’re following the seasons. Most will flip to power sailing if vmg drops to ~5. Can’t recall seeing a light air sail up on another boat except if coastal and heavily crewed. Most cruisers are mom and pop so ease and safety come first.
 
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Hippo, you will probably get a better sailboat discussion on a sailing forum, but we can all talk cruising, boat use and condition of boats.

Your thread title is "miles per year" so naturally the conversation drifts that way regardless of your actual question. We have pretty well covered that miles is not good measure of boat use for all the reasons given. The points made about sail vs power maintenance level and methods are valid for the boat types in general; maybe less significant once you get to the larger and nicer boats. Suggesting that sailboats are used more (more miles) than power boats probably won't be as well received here on a forum of power boat users. Most here on the forum are active and involved boaters and that's why we are here.

All cruising is coastal cruising regardless of location. The open-water passages are just to access different coastal locations than where you started. Unless you just drift around mid-ocean, you are connecting coastal cruises with passages. You seem to enjoy the long passage itself, so its great that you can do that. Your post about spending time with locals and getting to know places and people better describes the goals of my wife and I.

We made multiple trips to the USVI/BVI and Bahamas and T&C and kept moving so we could see and do as much as possible with the time we had. Then on one trip we had both a mechanical issue and some bad weather that kept us in one location many days longer than expected. We spent more time than usual on land and worked with locals to solve some problems. In the following days, we were treated like friends by those and other locals. More than once we got waves and offers of rides from our new friends as we walked the island. That trip became one of our favorites and we still have friends there years later. It was so rewarding to really get to know how the locals live instead of just talking to the guy at the dock or food stand while they are working. We learned that slowing down and absorbing the local culture is way more important to us than counting miles.

In summer of 2019 we planned to head to SE Alaska but instead spent the whole season exploring the inside of Vancouver Island. We realized that we were passing up miles and miles of spectacular cruising grounds if we headed straight to AK. We have been to AK and will again but just may spend one season or several exploring all the great locations and people south of there before we make that long run again.

The thread drift and rambling continues but this is the internet. The PO gets to ask questions and its anyone's guess where it goes from there. At least your cost per response if pretty low so there's that.

As far as your actual question, I have no idea why the power boats you looked at were in better shape than the sail boats. My guess is it was a statistically insignificant sample size, but who knows. Keep looking and I'm sure you will find something that will make you happy. Good luck out there.
 
BandB - I didn't realize you'd been to so many interesting places across both coasts. Do you have a blog or any reading? Sounds like really good stuff.

Wifey B: We have tons of writings, logs of all our travels, but nothing posted anywhere. Have thought of posting but then the huge complaints would be no pics. Have thought of posting and referencing pics readily available online. Have looked at some of the online travel diaries and such and thought of using them. :confused:
 
But he has great memories and probably be fun to chat with during sundowners.
 
BandB good post. We’ve been cruising for 7 years now after 30+ years of boat ownership. Found it amazing how different the experience is between them. Thought after ocean racing understood blue water. Was totally clueless. Thought I had some knowledge of how to be a tourist but found with long term cruising you live among the people in the areas you visit so it’s a totally different thing. Have had wonderful conversations started in hardware stores, launder mats and other mundane places leading to friendships and great enjoyment. Of course places are interesting but so are the people. Yes, there’s a us and them attitude between the cruising community and the general population but there’s many ways to break through. Strongly recommend volunteering in local projects wherever you find yourself. Wife calls me a social infarct. I’m happiest at anchor when there’s no one else around. Never get bored on a boat. Realize that’s a backward attitude and it annoys her but probably a reflection of spending my professional life dealing with other peoples problems. People are diverse.
Go cruising, go now, do whatever floats your boat.

Wifey B: We love walking through towns, even the oldest with the least stores remaining. Finding the long time store still there. Oh god nothing beats an old fashioned soda fountain or ice cream shop. Most of all local art galleries and museums. We love to purchase local arts and crafts and do so for both personal and business use. As to the museums, from the Smithsonian to the one horse town with it's one room museum. Amazing what you learn in just the one room, especially if the lady running it has lived there for 60 years. Nothing better than local festivals and craft fairs either.

We are not art experts. Don't even want to be. We just want to like it or not based on how we like looking at it. Does it turn us on? We've had times we would decide to buy one painting for ourselves and we'd quickly send photos of all the others to our art buyer. We'd step out for a moment and then back in while on the phone. We've had more than one occasion of it going like this. We'd step back in.

Artist: I have your painting wrapped. Anything else I can help you with.
Us: Yes, how much for the paintings on that wall.
Artist: Which one?
Us: All 16.

And then we went with the artist to a local shipper and arranged to get them all home. We're personally out of the picture at that point but we have artists and craftspersons in various places that out business buys from regularly now based on our one stop in their store. :rofl:

We also step out of our comfort zone when sightseeing. Yes, hubby will never pass the chance to see a lighthouse nor I to see a zoo but we travel with a diverse group and all choose things to see. The 20 year old girls with us are not baseball fans, but they loved Cooperstown. But they've also loved a night at Yankee Stadium and one at Fenway and Comiskey. Motown, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Grand Ol Opry. Guess we have eclectic tastes but I prefer to just think open to all. :D

A little example. We got married in Vegas and our honeymoon was there. Oh loved all the shows and dancers. Loved Folies Bergere and Jubilee and backstage at Jubilee. Loved all the musicians. However, one show stands out beyond all the rest. Wayne Newton. Yes, you heard me right. :eek:

Hubby said, this is the nearest we can come to old Vegas, when it was about the stars and you had Sinatra and Sammy Davis and Dean Martin and even Elvis. The one left is Wayne Newton. His voice wasn't what it once was but his showmanship sure was. You saw a relationship with his audience that you can't get in huge coliseums. People came back year after year and came to celebrate anniversaries and he walked around the stage that went out into the crowd and spoke to all of them and requested champagne for them. An then our bigmouth "sister" (a lot more to that story but she was 19 at the time) had made sure they knew it was our honeymoon and he came to out table and had champagne brought. Then she boldly announced that we sang. Here we are trying to remain incognito and Wayne Newton calls us up to sing. First a song of just us and then one with him. Omg, singing on stage in Vegas and the crowd applauding. He told us to stay seated after the show but also Tiffany said she felt she deserved a kiss. So, now 30 years later she still has the photo on her wall of Wayne Newton kissing her. Before that night she didn't know who he was. After the show he came and talked to the five of us at our table for about 15 minutes. That was a history lesson. That night we learned what old Vegas was about. :D

We're not train collectors but we still enjoy railroad and train museums. We don't even like flying, but we enjoy airplane museums. Of course we never miss a boat or marine museum.

Neither of us ever liked history in school, but we both love all the local museums, it just seems so much closer and like we're learning it at the source.

You may say you don't like opera and I understand as opera and ballet are things I can take only in moderate doses, but one time in your life go to an Italian opera house or, if not, go to a true opera house in the US like the Metropolitan Opera in NY. Experience the majesty.

None in our group drink beer but we had to check out Bay Street Biergarten in Charleston and had a blast watching cornhole and listening to the band and playing trivia.

Even those of you who are old, even the ancient ones, may think you've experienced it all but you've really only experienced a small part of what's out there. I'd suggest on all future cruises enjoy the places you've been often, but also make a point for some new experiences. :)

Go ride a horse along the beach somewhere. I can't promise you that you'll run across Hannah Davis riding there, but can't swear you won't and can promise you you'll enjoy the ride. :)
 
I think days aboard rather than miles covered is a better measure of the enjoyment one gets from owning a boat.


The dock queen folks , as well as the iced in winter liveaboards enjoy messing about in boats as much as anyone.
 
Interesting drift from original question. People live differently and think differently about things. When doing the day to day things- food shopping, laundry, banking, household supplies and other stuff like that you’re not looking around but living in that environment. It’s different. Even when we are looking around we always try to avoid car rentals or taxis and take public transport. This behavior isn’t limited to the boat but the same for other international travel. Rather do a B+B than a Hilton. Do public transport not out of trying to save a few bucks but rather for the experience.
We also try to volunteer. Not the big NGOs but smaller personal endeavors like Macario Advantage in the windwards. Just about anywhere you can walk into a house of worship and ask how you can help out and be directed into something worthwhile. Cruisers generally have good skill sets in fixing stuff and building. Several times been part of a group of cruisers fixing storm or flood damage. Find these smaller groups of local people driven entities are much more effective and much more fun. Through our travels find it’s different eating local food prepared by locals for local consumption. You can get a bit of that on the street but there’s nothing like a home cooked meal. A lot of our prior misconceptions about places were blown apart while cruising. We are blessed to be in a position to cruise. We can do it in our shell never leaving our comfort zone or immerse ourselves in the environment.
 
Quite true. We are iced-in (occasional ice here) live aboards. Just yesterday we had a long discussion about whether to sell the boat and buy a dirt house given that the market for good, used boats is strong. Nope, we still have a lot of cruising to do. We are not dock queens but I don't look down on folks who enjoy their boats in the way they choose to enjoy their boats. Not saying anyone here is doing that. Come the good weather we will shove off for a months-long cruise, followed by a couple of months in this marina, then shove off again for a winter in Florida.
I think days aboard rather than miles covered is a better measure of the enjoyment one gets from owning a boat.


The dock queen folks , as well as the iced in winter liveaboards enjoy messing about in boats as much as anyone.
 
Hippocampus..........There are too many variables, so your Admiral is missing a lot to make such an assumption. And 'average' doesnt mean anything either , unless its a small sample group.
 
Dave think you’re right. Still have enjoyed this thread particularly the drift.
 
We don't have a clue how many miles or hours we put under the keel on an annual basis or even since we got her.

I guess if we bothered to look at the hour meter we might, but we don't. I could even go back to the survey and compare to now, but I don't, and won't.

We use the boat when and where we can. Have the professionals do the annual maintenance on the engines plus any periodic stuff. And fix stuff either ourselves or in a yard when we need to.

We crank her up and go again when we can, for as long as we can.

Miles/hours are not units we relate to.

I absolutely LOVE Menzies mindset. Just love it.
 
2011 500nm
2012 1250
2013 900
2014 1400
2015 1150
2016 850
2017 700
2018 1170
2019 1950
2020 0 (Year with best fuel economy!)
2021 1500 (Planned, Covid permitting). Gruissan, France to Malta via the Italian coast.

This exercise prompted me to do a couple of rough calculations I've never done before. The above actuals total 9870nm. Knowing my total diesel engine hours and knowing that most of the time when I run on diesel, I run at 7 knots...and only occasionally at lower speeds, I can calculate that I apparently run, on average, 75% of the time on diesel and 25% of the time on electric.

2019 was an extreme for electric use, however. It was our trip from Sweden to the Mediterranean (France & Spain). 60% of it was inland on canals and rivers, where we relied heavily on electric for propulsion. For that entire 1950nm journey, we consumed 309 gallons of diesel. Or 0.16 gallons per nautical mile. 165hp turbo diesel.
 
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