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10-17-2019, 09:51 AM
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#21
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Guru
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace
10 Microns is equal to about .00039".
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When I went to school 10 microns was equal to 0.0039". But maybe that's been changed.
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10-17-2019, 09:56 AM
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#22
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW
When I went to school 10 microns was equal to 0.0039". But maybe that's been changed.
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You're missing a zero.
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10-17-2019, 10:16 AM
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#23
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,609
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Probability densities? Beta ratios? Don't let an engineer change your light bulbs. He'll spend all day analyzing spectrum data, efficiency calculations, and will then rip out the wiring to inspect it.
If 20 micron's are on sale, that's what I buy. If the 30's are cheaper, I stock up.
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10-17-2019, 02:34 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke
Engine manufacturers, especially of yacht engines are only worried about getting thru the warranty. PERIOD.
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Speaking only for myself, if I believed that, I wouldn't take my boat to sea. And, no amount of pixie dust here, or magic elixir there, or finer filtration here and there, would change that for me.
Again, speaking only for myself, I don't think our classic trawlers' Lehmans and Perkins and many others, turned out to last more than 40 years past their 1 year warranties by accident.
As for some of the newer light weight diesel engines -- which carry a different duty rating -- they are designed for a different purpose and a different lifetime, as advertised. Nothing is being misrepresented. I think.
The upshot is that I am very amazing by my workhorse Perkins 6.354s. And the Lehmans in so many trawlers. And, I've always wanted a boat with Detroits. And even those with the once commonly maligned Cat 3208s seem to keep on going and going and going. I think those engineers, builders, and everyone who supported them and us -- should be real proud. I'd be.
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10-17-2019, 06:28 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
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No, I am in no way affiliated with Raycor. But.. I watched the video and one thing I really learned is that Raycor is really committed to their filter media. Lots of R&D !! I am not certain about the past but I am certain of the future, for me at least. I will only buy branded Raycor filter inserts. Watch the video and then picture what probably happens when you slide a counterfeit filter into the housing.
I'll tell you what happens..NOTHING !! no particle traping, no water separation NO FILTERING !!
By the way, I am the original poster on the "micron" issue and I learned a ton about filters and microns. Thank you to everyone who cleared things up for me.
I am so fortunate to have rebuilt tanks and clean, pure fuel. Starting next spring I will incorporate all the information I learned here into/onto my boat.
What a great bunch, thanks
pete
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10-17-2019, 06:40 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Hey Pete,
But, inquiring minds don't want to know what brand you'll choose for your primary filter -- we want to know the published nominal micron rating you'll choose.
Cheers!
-Greg
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10-17-2019, 07:15 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Italy
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: Currently looking for next boat
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,081
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My Cummins manual states
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60
Several trawler guys (actual commercial fisherman) have said our 855 Cummins, popular in the industry here, will run on vomit.
I never quite understood this as it has or at least I thought it had, 2 x 2mic on engine water separator/filters after the 10mic racor.
Ordering some spares yesterday and it seems the on engine are actually 20mic so probably pointless replacing them seeing as there are 10s in front.
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That I should have use 20 and 10 micron filtration. My engines are 2002 330 hp, 5.9btas
Gordon
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10-17-2019, 08:05 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Cummins recommends a 10 micro engine filter. It is generally recommended to have a 30 micron Racor filter.
If you put a 10 micro filter in the Racor and it is 95% efficient and 10 micro on the engine, you have 95% efficient on the Racor and I am assuming the engine filter is also 95% efficient, you end up with some mighty clean fuel.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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10-17-2019, 08:45 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Tri Cities, WA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost
You obviously are wanting to lead this discussion to some outcome. Might be useful to start closer to that. But filters are a hot button discussion because of all the dumbed down truths (which do serve a useful purpose).
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ghost, I had zero interest or attempt to lead this discussion in any direction at all. I don't claim to be an engineer so I was simply asking what I thought was a simple question.
I will excuse your misguided attempt to read my mind, little that there is of it.
__________________
Mike and Tina
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
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10-17-2019, 08:46 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943
Cummins recommends a 10 micro engine filter. It is generally recommended to have a 30 micron Racor filter.
If you put a 10 micro filter in the Racor and it is 95% efficient and 10 micro on the engine, you have 95% efficient on the Racor and I am assuming the engine filter is also 95% efficient, you end up with some mighty clean fuel.
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That's the idea.
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10-17-2019, 09:13 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace
You're missing a zero.
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I guess I am at that!
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10-17-2019, 09:14 PM
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#32
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Looking back, I am remiss that, in my treatise last night I didn't note that if a primary loads up enough, depending upon the configuration, the pressure can push past the seals allowing unfiltered fuel to get to the secondary, potentially fouling it faster. I note this more toward completeness than for any other reason.
As for the 95% * 95%, just note in filter math that isn't 99.75%. The filtering isn't independent, because it could be size, shape or composition of the particle that aided it in sneaking past the primary filter, and the same could aid it in sneaking past the secondary filter. For example, I'd bet the filtration rate for particles exactly 10 microns isn't the same as for those 1 cm, and that texture, shape, etc matter.
Having said that....I'd agree that it'll be "some might clean fuel". And, I'll agree that, "That's the idea." And, there sure ain't nothing wrong with that.
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10-17-2019, 09:38 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Malagari
Vessel Model: Island Gypsy 36 Europa
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 422
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An interesting discussion for the purist but if I can bring it back down to earth a bit ( not as far as vomit though ). I inherited a box of Baldwin filters with the boat which I have continued to use however I realise that no matter how hard I try I cannot find the micon size for them - the local rep wasn`t a help either. How do I find this out?
__________________
George
Brisbane
IG 36 Europa
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10-17-2019, 09:42 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,271
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Hi Brisyboy,
Is there a model number on them? I'd try googling that. If you post it, I'll try googling that :-)
-Greg
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10-17-2019, 09:48 PM
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#35
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisyboy
An interesting discussion for the purist but if I can bring it back down to earth a bit ( not as far as vomit though ). I inherited a box of Baldwin filters with the boat which I have continued to use however I realise that no matter how hard I try I cannot find the micon size for them - the local rep wasn`t a help either. How do I find this out?
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My secondary filters do not list a micron size either. I haven’t found a specification anywhere.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-17-2019, 11:47 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
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The Fleetguard filters that I use for my secondary filters do list a micron rating as well as an efficiency.
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10-18-2019, 12:40 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Malagari
Vessel Model: Island Gypsy 36 Europa
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkesden
Hi Brisyboy,
Is there a model number on them? I'd try googling that. If you post it, I'll try googling that :-)
-Greg
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Greg,
Baldwin BF825
George
__________________
George
Brisbane
IG 36 Europa
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10-18-2019, 05:35 AM
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#38
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Guru
City: SchoolHouse Branch
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 551
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Here is some reading from a trusted source:
https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/p...10-30-microns/
Most pumps push much better than they pull. Vacuum readings are very important. Finer filtering works better after a pump than before a pump. Coarser filtering protects the pump and works great, creates less vacuum before the pump.
A quick search didn't provide a link but you can find information from the diesel companies about advances that allowed longer warranties for on-road diesels. Filtration was of key importance.
Filter ratings and filter build quality are two different things. A cheap, low quality, filter can't be trusted. It's micron rating is irrelevant.
Art is the human endeavor in all things. Beauty can be found in high-tech synthetic filter media.
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10-18-2019, 06:40 AM
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#39
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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I'm a little surprised to see our Cummins FF5285 spin-on secondary fuel filters are rated at 20 micron. I'd have expected 10 micron...
https://catalog.cumminsfiltration.co...&PartType=Fuel, Spin-On&Part=-&criteria=part&_locale=en
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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10-20-2019, 05:22 AM
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#40
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"Finer filtering works better after a pump than before a pump.
This is true if filtering for crud , but the mixing action in the pump makes water removal more difficult.
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