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Old 10-17-2019, 09:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
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10 Microns is equal to about .00039".
When I went to school 10 microns was equal to 0.0039". But maybe that's been changed.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:56 AM   #22
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When I went to school 10 microns was equal to 0.0039". But maybe that's been changed.

You're missing a zero.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:16 AM   #23
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Probability densities? Beta ratios? Don't let an engineer change your light bulbs. He'll spend all day analyzing spectrum data, efficiency calculations, and will then rip out the wiring to inspect it.

If 20 micron's are on sale, that's what I buy. If the 30's are cheaper, I stock up.
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Old 10-17-2019, 02:34 PM   #24
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Engine manufacturers, especially of yacht engines are only worried about getting thru the warranty. PERIOD.
Speaking only for myself, if I believed that, I wouldn't take my boat to sea. And, no amount of pixie dust here, or magic elixir there, or finer filtration here and there, would change that for me.

Again, speaking only for myself, I don't think our classic trawlers' Lehmans and Perkins and many others, turned out to last more than 40 years past their 1 year warranties by accident.

As for some of the newer light weight diesel engines -- which carry a different duty rating -- they are designed for a different purpose and a different lifetime, as advertised. Nothing is being misrepresented. I think.

The upshot is that I am very amazing by my workhorse Perkins 6.354s. And the Lehmans in so many trawlers. And, I've always wanted a boat with Detroits. And even those with the once commonly maligned Cat 3208s seem to keep on going and going and going. I think those engineers, builders, and everyone who supported them and us -- should be real proud. I'd be.
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:28 PM   #25
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No, I am in no way affiliated with Raycor. But.. I watched the video and one thing I really learned is that Raycor is really committed to their filter media. Lots of R&D !! I am not certain about the past but I am certain of the future, for me at least. I will only buy branded Raycor filter inserts. Watch the video and then picture what probably happens when you slide a counterfeit filter into the housing.

I'll tell you what happens..NOTHING !! no particle traping, no water separation NO FILTERING !!

By the way, I am the original poster on the "micron" issue and I learned a ton about filters and microns. Thank you to everyone who cleared things up for me.

I am so fortunate to have rebuilt tanks and clean, pure fuel. Starting next spring I will incorporate all the information I learned here into/onto my boat.

What a great bunch, thanks

pete
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:40 PM   #26
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Hey Pete,

But, inquiring minds don't want to know what brand you'll choose for your primary filter -- we want to know the published nominal micron rating you'll choose.

Cheers!
-Greg
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:15 PM   #27
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My Cummins manual states

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Several trawler guys (actual commercial fisherman) have said our 855 Cummins, popular in the industry here, will run on vomit.
I never quite understood this as it has or at least I thought it had, 2 x 2mic on engine water separator/filters after the 10mic racor.

Ordering some spares yesterday and it seems the on engine are actually 20mic so probably pointless replacing them seeing as there are 10s in front.
That I should have use 20 and 10 micron filtration. My engines are 2002 330 hp, 5.9btas

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Old 10-17-2019, 08:05 PM   #28
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Cummins recommends a 10 micro engine filter. It is generally recommended to have a 30 micron Racor filter.
If you put a 10 micro filter in the Racor and it is 95% efficient and 10 micro on the engine, you have 95% efficient on the Racor and I am assuming the engine filter is also 95% efficient, you end up with some mighty clean fuel.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:45 PM   #29
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You obviously are wanting to lead this discussion to some outcome. Might be useful to start closer to that. But filters are a hot button discussion because of all the dumbed down truths (which do serve a useful purpose).
ghost, I had zero interest or attempt to lead this discussion in any direction at all. I don't claim to be an engineer so I was simply asking what I thought was a simple question.

I will excuse your misguided attempt to read my mind, little that there is of it.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:46 PM   #30
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Cummins recommends a 10 micro engine filter. It is generally recommended to have a 30 micron Racor filter.
If you put a 10 micro filter in the Racor and it is 95% efficient and 10 micro on the engine, you have 95% efficient on the Racor and I am assuming the engine filter is also 95% efficient, you end up with some mighty clean fuel.
That's the idea.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:13 PM   #31
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You're missing a zero.
I guess I am at that!
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:14 PM   #32
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Looking back, I am remiss that, in my treatise last night I didn't note that if a primary loads up enough, depending upon the configuration, the pressure can push past the seals allowing unfiltered fuel to get to the secondary, potentially fouling it faster. I note this more toward completeness than for any other reason.

As for the 95% * 95%, just note in filter math that isn't 99.75%. The filtering isn't independent, because it could be size, shape or composition of the particle that aided it in sneaking past the primary filter, and the same could aid it in sneaking past the secondary filter. For example, I'd bet the filtration rate for particles exactly 10 microns isn't the same as for those 1 cm, and that texture, shape, etc matter.

Having said that....I'd agree that it'll be "some might clean fuel". And, I'll agree that, "That's the idea." And, there sure ain't nothing wrong with that.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:38 PM   #33
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An interesting discussion for the purist but if I can bring it back down to earth a bit ( not as far as vomit though). I inherited a box of Baldwin filters with the boat which I have continued to use however I realise that no matter how hard I try I cannot find the micon size for them - the local rep wasn`t a help either. How do I find this out?
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:42 PM   #34
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Hi Brisyboy,

Is there a model number on them? I'd try googling that. If you post it, I'll try googling that :-)

-Greg
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisyboy View Post
An interesting discussion for the purist but if I can bring it back down to earth a bit ( not as far as vomit though). I inherited a box of Baldwin filters with the boat which I have continued to use however I realise that no matter how hard I try I cannot find the micon size for them - the local rep wasn`t a help either. How do I find this out?
My secondary filters do not list a micron size either. I haven’t found a specification anywhere.
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:47 PM   #36
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The Fleetguard filters that I use for my secondary filters do list a micron rating as well as an efficiency.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:40 AM   #37
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Hi Brisyboy,

Is there a model number on them? I'd try googling that. If you post it, I'll try googling that :-)

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Old 10-18-2019, 05:35 AM   #38
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Here is some reading from a trusted source:

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/p...10-30-microns/


Most pumps push much better than they pull. Vacuum readings are very important. Finer filtering works better after a pump than before a pump. Coarser filtering protects the pump and works great, creates less vacuum before the pump.

A quick search didn't provide a link but you can find information from the diesel companies about advances that allowed longer warranties for on-road diesels. Filtration was of key importance.

Filter ratings and filter build quality are two different things. A cheap, low quality, filter can't be trusted. It's micron rating is irrelevant.

Art is the human endeavor in all things. Beauty can be found in high-tech synthetic filter media.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:40 AM   #39
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I'm a little surprised to see our Cummins FF5285 spin-on secondary fuel filters are rated at 20 micron. I'd have expected 10 micron...

https://catalog.cumminsfiltration.co...&PartType=Fuel, Spin-On&Part=-&criteria=part&_locale=en

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Old 10-20-2019, 05:22 AM   #40
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"Finer filtering works better after a pump than before a pump.

This is true if filtering for crud , but the mixing action in the pump makes water removal more difficult.
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