Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-23-2020, 05:51 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
DLETF's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Vessel Name: Buster
Vessel Model: North Sea Cape Classic 30
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 44
Metallic debris in return fuel line

I installed Optio fuel flow sensors in the supply and return fuel lines of my Cummins 6BT 5.9-M engine about 6 months ago. The sensors functioned properly until the last cruise when the GPH usage shown on the iPhone app suddenly increased several fold without a change in the throttle. The return fuel line sensor was shipped to the factory. Three photos attached to this post demonstrate debris in the sensor gears. The longer, thinner debris in the first and third photos are composed of a ferrous metal. No fuel system or engine work has been performed since the flow sensors were installed.
I plan to install a 20 micron filter in the return fuel line just before the return flow sensor.
Questions:
1. What is the source of the debris?
2. Are the metallic debris a symptom of a serious engine condition?
Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
DeWayne_2899.jpeg   DeWayne_2912.jpeg   DeWayne_2913.jpeg  
__________________
Advertisement

DLETF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 06:24 PM   #2
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport north of Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,695
I guess you have to think what is between where this debris showed uo and the output of the engine-mounted filter, and that pretty much comes down the injector pump doesn't it? The added filter is a good interim fix for the flow meter, but.....
__________________

__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 06:30 PM   #3
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,984
The shape of the metal reminds me of shards occasionally spun off from threaded fittings. Is there by any chance threaded fittings between the injector pump and the sensor?

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 07:20 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Panacea123's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral, Fl
Vessel Name: Panacea
Vessel Model: Novatec 42 Sundeck Trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 157
No answer, and not to hijack the thread, but any one else use these?
Flows can out of business
Panacea123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 10:40 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Bustlebomb's Avatar
 
City: Seal Beach, CA
Vessel Name: Snooker (for now.....)
Vessel Model: 1981 34 Californian LRC
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 116
Metallic debris in return fuel line

Floscanís website is still active and shows ďunder new management. Have you heard something else? (Sorry for the hijack).
__________________
Matt

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Bustlebomb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 01:12 AM   #6
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 10,495
I think that Floscan went out of business but someone took it over and opened it back up, at least that was my understanding.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 07:50 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,344
Congratulations on a well detailed post.

Ferrous metal thread slivers are unlikely to have been circulating in your engine for any time so my first thought is that they came from the flowscan fitting itself. That IMO would be the likely source of new ferrous slivers.

Experience has taught me to disassemble and inspect all new parts, if possible, to look for metal shavings not properly cleaned in manufacturing. Sad but true that IMO many later failures are caused by sloppy initial work.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 08:19 AM   #8
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,982
If engine has a Lucas CAV pump, all the guts of that pump are lubed with fuel. Any wear products created internally are in the fuel too. So no surprise some of them come out with the return fuel. Could be thread cuttings, could just be normal wear products. A small fine mesh filter on the inlet to the flow meter may make sense.

I would not worry too much about the existence of these particles, all machines create some. Provided the engine is running well.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 01:12 PM   #9
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,696
Ski, don't you mean a Simms pump?
Gale warning, heavy rain, no boat stuff, no golfing. Rats, all there is to do today is nit-pick. Sigh.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 01:22 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 107
As said it seems to be part of a thread maybe. Does not seem to be something to worry about at this stage IMO. I would put your filter inline, buy a few extras, and then after operating for a while cut one open to inspect. The type of debris that usually gets me worried is lots of small sparkly stuff that looks like you just panned for gold or dropped a glitter container...lol. The inline filter inspection after some hours of operation should reveal if that is happening.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 01:55 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,344
I agree that wear particles usually dont look like thread shavings.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 02:10 PM   #12
Veteran Member
 
DLETF's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Vessel Name: Buster
Vessel Model: North Sea Cape Classic 30
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
The shape of the metal reminds me of shards occasionally spun off from threaded fittings. Is there by any chance threaded fittings between the injector pump and the sensor?

Ken
The attached photos show the return fuel line transition from the metal tubes that carry unused fuel to the rubber hose that returns the fuel to the tanks. More than one threaded fitting exists in this fuel return line
Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0680.jpg   IMG_0681.jpg   IMG_0682.jpg  
DLETF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 02:17 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
DLETF's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Vessel Name: Buster
Vessel Model: North Sea Cape Classic 30
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
Congratulations on a well detailed post.

Ferrous metal thread slivers are unlikely to have been circulating in your engine for any time so my first thought is that they came from the flowscan fitting itself. That IMO would be the likely source of new ferrous slivers.

Experience has taught me to disassemble and inspect all new parts, if possible, to look for metal shavings not properly cleaned in manufacturing. Sad but true that IMO many later failures are caused by sloppy initial work.
bayview: The Optio sensor is constructed of non-metallic components except for the 2 magnets located in the posts of one of the gears. The hose barbs are constructed from aluminum. The debris that appears to be slivers from a fuel line fitting are ferrous.
Thanks
DLETF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 02:22 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
DLETF's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Vessel Name: Buster
Vessel Model: North Sea Cape Classic 30
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
If engine has a Lucas CAV pump, all the guts of that pump are lubed with fuel. Any wear products created internally are in the fuel too. So no surprise some of them come out with the return fuel. Could be thread cuttings, could just be normal wear products. A small fine mesh filter on the inlet to the flow meter may make sense.

I would not worry too much about the existence of these particles, all machines create some. Provided the engine is running well.
Ski in NC: The fuel pump is a Lucas CAV pump. Would you expect the 2 larger debris particles shown in the first and third photos to pass through the injectors and then into the return fuel line?
Thanks
DLETF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 02:31 PM   #15
Veteran Member
 
DLETF's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Vessel Name: Buster
Vessel Model: North Sea Cape Classic 30
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panacea123 View Post
No answer, and not to hijack the thread, but any one else use these?
Flows can out of business
Panacea123: The Optio fuel flow sensors are manufactured by Interactio in BC, Canada. The sensors were reviewed by Panbo.com last year.
Contact info:
David Burton
dburton@interactio.co
Thanks
DLETF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 05:01 PM   #16
Guru
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Vessel Name: Pilitak
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,455
DLETF,
It seems to me to be best to follow Ski's advice. Install the proposed filter before the return sensor, and after a few hours of operation (say 50?) change it out and cut it open and examine the interior for particles. If there appears to be a lot of particles, or one's as described above indicating wear, then maybe further investigation (here, with Tony Athens, Cummins, etc.) may be in order.

This as long as the engine is running well now. JMHO.
PS> What kind of fuel numbers were you getting?
__________________

__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×