Medium Range cruising

[gt7834a]

Hey all
I have spent years reading this forum and have learned a great deal.
One thing I am struggling to wrap my head around is what type of boat is appropriate to reach beyond the Bahamas.
I understand if you want to cross oceans you are looking at Kady Krogen and Nordhavn. If you just want to go to the NE and down to the Bahamas, lots of boats will work for you.
I don’t want to cross oceans but would like the ability to get to the Southern Caribbean and possibly even through the Panama Canal. I want something slightly faster than a Nordhavn and want something with better outdoor areas.
I like the Swift Trawler 44 & 47 as well as the Grand Banks in the 40+ range. These seem to have plenty of range but would you feel comfortable taking them south of the Bahamas? If not what would you suggest?
Price wise under $1M and under ~50’.

 

[mvweebles]

Given your $1m budget, you have a ton of options. I am refitting my tiny Willard 36 for basically the same requirements to go from California to Florida. Here is my list along with some comments based on your list:

1. Stabilized. You can decide what type (fin, paravane, gyro, etc.). But stabilization is mandatory.
2. 1500 nm range. This is somewhat arbitrary. 1000 nms is enough to cruise from Maine to Alaska, but I chose 1500 nms as it gives flexibility in where I stop. Fuel is particularly expensive in Bahamas and Caribbean - having range to save a buck or two a gallon is nice. For your use and desire for speed, you'll have to decide what speed you want to have at what range. 1500 nm range at 15 kts (for example) is pretty unlikely.
3. No exterior woodwork. Sun is brutal and will make short order of any exposed brightwork. For you, this would rule-out a lot of GB style boats. For me, this means I had all the caprails encapsulated in fiberglass and painted LPU.
4. Flybridge. Several recent threads and I won't re-hash except to say that many of these areas have shoal anchorages. I like an open flybridge with a hard top over. Personal choice.
5. Protected running gear. Again, this will confound your speed requirement, but for me, I like the ability to touch bottom without damage.
6. Engine room access and room for stores. By far, this is the biggest compromise I've made. A 36-footer just doesn't have much room. But it's important for long term running.
7. Water tight. Spray over the bow is fairly common and nothing is more annoying that chasing leaky windows with every towel on the boat.
8. Easy access to dinghy at anchor. This rules-out full-width aft cabin boats unless they have a cockpit extension of some sort. The DeFever 44+5 is a great example, though does not have the turn of speed you're looking for. Tags many other bases though - a helluva boat with a fine engine room.

I think you will need to reconcile what 'speed' means to you. The Nordhavn 57 is a relatively fast boat that easily cruises at 9+ knots and makes 225 nm days while burning 6gph. Easily has a 2000 nm range. A bit bigger than you mentioned, but under $1m these days. Yes, can cross oceans, but in my opinion, a great boat for serious coastal passages too.

I'm sure there are many others who will contribute. Great dream - good luck.

Peter

 

[Woodland Hills]

How about an old Hatteras or Viking sportfisher or mototyacht? At hull speed with 1000+ gallons fuel there’s your medium range with the potential to go twice as fast if you need to. 1/3 to 1/2 of your $1M budget will buy a good solid boat and the savings will pay for any extra slip fees for a larger more comfortable boat. 55 to 65 feet will have a lot of choice of good boats.

 

[gt7834a]

I’m fine spending the majority of time between eight and 10 knots. I would like the ability to go up to 15 knots but it’s not mandatory. I just don’t think I can stand spending most of my time going 5 to 6 knots.

I really like the larger cockpits as I feel like at anchor that will be where we spend most of our time. When we charter boats, that’s where we always end up. So no aft cabins. I definitely want a flybridge.

I would rather avoid a ton of exterior teak but it’s not a dealbreaker for me. I have an old Whaler with teak and I like working on it. Granted the scale is vastly different. The amount of teak on a Grand Banks 47 feels overwhelming.

 

[gt7834a]

How about an old Hatteras or Viking sportfisher or mototyacht? At hull speed with 1000+ gallons fuel there’s your medium range with the potential to go twice as fast if you need to. 1/3 to 1/2 of your $1M budget will buy a good solid boat and the savings will pay for any extra slip fees for a larger more comfortable boat. 55 to 65 feet will have a lot of choice of good boats.

I have looked at those and thought about them. My only problem with them is there’s no lower helm or pilot house. If you’re planning to make a multi day crossing that is a dealbreaker to me

 

[menzies]

Consider getting yourself a copy of The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South.

BTW, I wouldn't call what you are planning on doing medium Range. To me that is certainly long range.

 

[Codger2]

I’m fine spending the majority of time between eight and 10 knots. I would like the ability to go up to 15 knots but it’s not mandatory.

I really like the larger cockpits as I feel like at anchor that will be where we spend most of our time. When we charter boats, that’s where we always end up.

I would rather avoid a ton of exterior teak but it’s not a dealbreaker for me.

For what you say you want to do, If it were me I'd buy an older fleming 55 for less than $1Mil & put it in top shape. Huge cockpit that is covered by the boat deck, 1000 gals of fuel, speed in the teens, great resale value & a stunning interior.

 

[mvweebles]

For what you say you want to do, If it were me I'd buy an older fleming 55 for less than $1Mil & put it in top shape. Huge cockpit that is covered by the boat deck, 1000 gals of fuel, speed in the teens, great resale value & a stunning interior.

Good suggestion.

 

[firehoser75]

There is a Kadey Krogen 52 for sale in Florida asking $1.1 million. Great boat. Good range and offshore capable. Cruising speed about 8+ knots. Will not do 15 K.
The boat has hydraulic stabilizers and hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Seems to meet what you have asked for, except the higher top speed. Only 1800 hours (2012 BOAT) on the John Deere single engine.
My good friends own one of these, and it is a great boat.
Good luck with your boat hunting.

 

[firehoser75]

Another option of a boat (different style) that could do the travels you ask (if you watch weather carefully) would be the American Tug 485 (flybridge) for sale in Florida. This boat will do the 12 knots or so (and a bit more) if wanted. This one is stabilized and has bow and stern thrusters. Semi displacement vs full displacement for the Krogen. 2015, low hours but 600 hp. Asking $900,000.
There, done boat hunting for you

 

[gt7834a]

I try to like the tug style boats because they do seem to check a lot of boxes but I just do not like how they look. Maybe I can get over it. I need to get on one and check them out.

 

[Airstream345]

For what you say you want to do, If it were me I'd buy an older fleming 55 for less than $1Mil & put it in top shape. Huge cockpit that is covered by the boat deck, 1000 gals of fuel, speed in the teens, great resale value & a stunning interior.

Agreed. As I read the OPs request I immediately thought he just described a Fleming. Several listed here that are well below $1M that would fit the bill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/make-fleming/model-55/

If you have some time watch Tony Fleming's videos on YouTube. Venture went from the Aleutians to the Sea of Cortez to the Galapagos Islands, through the Panama Canal, up the other side, along the Loop, Nova Scotia and beyond.

 

[menzies]

Agreed. As I read the OPs request I immediately thought he just described a Fleming. Several listed here that are well below $1M that would fit the bill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/make-fleming/model-55/

If you have some time watch Tony Fleming's videos on YouTube. Venture went from the Aleutians to the Sea of Cortez to the Galapagos Islands, through the Panama Canal, up the other side, along the Loop, Nova Scotia and beyond.

Problem is, as has been discussed on another thread here, there are one to none for sale in the US. A strange phenomenon.

 

[rsn48]

Another vote for Fleming. And I agree with the advise, get something older then upgrade to your maximum budget. This way you are getting what you want. If you get a used boat close to the top of your budget, then you could have money problems making it yours. I'd rather buy a $700,000 and put $300,000.

And I agree watch Tony Flemings vids.

 

[menzies]

gt7834a. Steve D'Antonio is a commercial member on here offering boat buying consulting.

With your budget and plans, it might be an idea to engage with him and see what he offers.

 

[gt7834a]

I like the Fleming. It’s a little bigger than I was wanting but I would consider it since it’s small for its length if that makes sense. Unfortunately there are zero for sale. That’s the type of boat I’m looking for though.
I agree with others about buying used. I said my budget was 1 million but really my plan is to buy about 5 - $600,000 boat and upgrade from there unless it was in immaculate shape.

 

[Flatswing]

Suggest u further refine your requirements. Medium Range Cruising is a rather all encompassing term. Please define why u want faster than (approx.) hull speed.
For instance -want to cruise the AICW, do the loop? Nordies carry too much depth & have marginal rear vision for daily docking/locking with any degree of comfort, but are superb in the Caribbean, draft a potential issue in the Bahamas & South FL. I have difficulty comparing the build & fitting quality of Swift Trawlers & Nordhavns in the same sentence. But following the Gentleman’s path probably doable with the Bebe. My personal opinion is that offshore (displacement) boats are splendidly built but have some definite shortcomings for coastal cruising & as are a PITA if u want to loop. Similarly, a spacious salon with non fixed furniture is great inshore but a nightmare in a sea where u need to hold on for every step. So consider carefully how u actually will use your dream boat - it will drive your choice.
(My favorite was a Nordhavn 46 Fly or Selene 42/47. Krogen Express 47, or GB 49. Ended up with a DeFever 49 for practical reasons)

 

[Jon H]

www.burryachtsales.com

They are the East Coast Fleming dealer, 3 - 55's and 1 -53 in inventory.

 

[Wayfarer]

What about a nice Defever 44?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003/defever-44-offshore-3464487/

 

[Bradenvlp]

I am looking for a similar boat and price range (55-65 up to about $1M) but on the west coast. Inventory seems very slim to me. Maybe it’s just because I’m looking / serious. But it seems like maybe folks are hanging on for the local vacation etc. this year who would be selling normally? I’m trying to practice patience.

 

[Codger2]

]Problem is,[/B] as has been discussed on another thread here, there are one to none for sale in the US. A strange phenomenon.

An "opportunity" cleverly disguised as a "problem."

 

[rsn48]

You can't find any boats on the west coast? This link leads to many:

https://emeraldpacificyachts.com/our-listings/

 

[Jmarsh203]

How much company do you plan on having on board, if it’s just you, or you and your significant other you will be looking for a very different boat than if you want the kids and grandkids to be able to join you all at the same time. And how long will they be joining you for, big difference between a boat that needs to sleep a couple comfortably and one that needs to sleep 2-3 couples and some kids Compared to one that will only have company less than 5% of the time. Do you want new, slightly new(still under warranty) or used? 1 mill gets you a hell of a boat in the used market especially if you start looking at older boats but when new you will be much more limited. How many other boats have you had before? The larger the boat the more daunting it is to do things like dock when starting out(even though they are actually easier to handle) and the more damage you cause when you do mess up. Also if it’s your first boat it will be much harder and more expensive to find insurance the larger the boat becomes.

 

[OldDan1943]

Medium cruising, hmmmm, traverses the east coast in one or two fuel stops? To the islands, sure you can make it with the proper weather window. Remember to bring your credit cards, fuel ain’t cheap in the islands.
When choosing a boat, it is better to be a bit cramped than to have a boat so big you need paid crew. Don’t rely on your kids helping or cruising with you. Remember, you raised your kids to go away and live their own lives.
Nice to have but not a requirement for an extra stateroom and ideally 2 “stools” in case one goes belly up. I personally like a stall shower but, I’m a whimp.
Stabilized will make ‘off the coast’ more comfortable and enlarge your weather window. Bow and or stern thrusters will make docking less stressful but, not a requirement. Generator? IMO, don’t leave home without it. The same with A/C if you are going to hang out in the southeast and islands.
Okay, there’s the minimum.
That, in my mind, puts the max length in the upper 30s, lowers 40 ft range unless you like ‘camping’ on a boat.
You don’t want to wear yourself out on the boat..... Boating is supposed to be fun and relaxing.
One or two engines, your decision but remember, 2 engines, more fuel, more maintenance.
Speed, max of 9 knots on a full displacement hull. Semi-displacement hull, greater speed using more fuel.
Everything else, accessories, items for your comfort, you can address and add as you determine feel necessary.
There you go, all done.

 

[sunchaser]

Three suggestions for the OP
-- Nordhavn 59CP
-- Krogen Express
-- OA 55-64

All have range, sea keeping ability, speed desired and recent builds.

 

[ranger58sb]

Price wise under $1M and under ~50’.

Why under 50'? (Not quibbling; just asking. We're trying to stay under 55' ourselves... so we don't size ourselves out of our normal spur-of-the-moment trips...)

Some options that I've reviewed recently (on paper), maybe worth a glance:

Navigator 5100 or larger
Bayliner 5288 or larger/Meridian 540 PH or larger
Ocean Alexander 548 PH
Offshore 48 PH or larger

Wherever I've mentioned models over 50', most have similar models under 50'.

I have looked at those and thought about them. My only problem with them is there’s no lower helm or pilot house. If you’re planning to make a multi day crossing that is a dealbreaker to me

I too was gonna suggest you have a look at various sportfish/convertible designs. They often have large cockpits -- although we tend to use our flybridge more than our cockpit. FWIW, we haven't found not having a lower helm to be a big deal. Wouldn't mind one, ideally of the pilothouse variety, but generally visibility from the flybridge is often so much better (especially compared to a non-PH lower) that we wouldn't use a lower helm often anyway.

How often would you actually be involved in a multi-day crossing?

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

Challenge will be balancing speed with range. Decent selection of twins with 1000g diesel that might give a 800-900 nm usable range (might) at 7.5 kts. At 17kt cruise, lucky to get 400 nm range. Random sample below. Maybe expend into the plastic-style like Searay and Azimut, or perhaps even PowerCats and Sport Fish. Crossing to Canal I guess could be done in a series of shorter hops, but most attractive run is using Pt Antonio Jamaica, which is around 600 nms from Colon Panama.

EDIT - per Ranger42's post just before this, list below includes OE and Offshore in the slightly above 50-foot range. Below, and tankage shrinks a bit. I happen to like the idea of a min 1000 nm range, so 1000 gals diesel is a bit tight, but doable. But would be 7.5 kts, not 15-18.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/ocean-alexander-548-pilothouse-3650328/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/offshore-yachts-pilothouse-3578629/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003/grand-banks-europa-52-3578504/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/defever-pilothouse-3562912/

 

[gt7834a]

Why under 50'? (Not quibbling; just asking. We're trying to stay under 55' ourselves... so we don't size ourselves out of our normal spur-of-the-moment trips...)


-Chris

.

I’ve been on a lot of boats and when they get above 50 they just seem to get to be a lot for two people. I know there’s people who are perfectly comfortable with it but it just becomes a lot of maintenance and a lot of boat to handle for two people imo. The thing is is 50 feet is a somewhat arbitrary number obviously. And boats are very different. A 47 foot Nordhavn is a hell of a lot of boat compared to 47 foot Grand Banks. Just a lot more tonnage and systems etc. With that comes peace of mind and the ability to go anywhere, but it also becomes a lot to handle and maintain.


It’ll be primarily my wife and I with visits from the kids occasionally so an extra state room would be a must. I think the 40 to 50 foot range is the sweet spot. Big enough to have large tankage to give us the range were looking for but not so big that it becomes hard to handle. If we found one we like and it is 53 feet we wouldn’t hesitate, but generally speaking I’m trying to stay below 50.

My intention is to buy used. Not sure I want the responsibility for picking all the systems etc. that are required with a new build. Also just think there’s better value in used boats.

As far as my experience, we own smaller boats currently. I live on the water and spend a lot of time on it. We have chartered several 40+ foot boats. I am far from an expert but am very comfortable on boats and I am a reasonably competent seaman.

 

[moparharn]

You should not listen to anything I have to say on this subject as I lack the personal experience to add anything to the conversation. This being said, I saw this boat for sale a while back and thought it was one of the nicest boats I have seen for that kind of money. It fit every single thing I want in a trawler minus the price. It was 1/2 your budget.
https://www.denisonyachtsales.com/y...-Trawler-2012-Fort-Lauderdale-Florida/7279497

I just looked at the pictures again. I LOVE THIS BOAT.
Heavy glass, sea doors, and water tight compartmentalization. What a dream boat.

 

[mbevins]

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51089