Mechanic bill dispute

[JoeApicella]

Right, compression.

 

[sford1952]

You will feel better

I agree with Portage Bay, discuss the problem and negotiate you will feel better down the road having made the effort to resolve the bill amicably. Chalk this up to experience

 

[Pcpete]

You have an identified 2.25 hours. He probably spent another 30-45 minutes identifying and ordering parts, so three in total. Go to parts store to get needed parts, an hour, now four. Bench servicing a carb is probably two hours, now six. How far to his shop? Figure loading parts and supplies at 15min, 30 minutes drive time shop to marina parking, 15 min to unload and get supplies to your boat, four trips, now seven, eight, nine, ten. You are within your rights to ask for a discrete explanation of his time spent on each activity. Take a posture of trying to understand the breakdown, after all, you want to be fair. At least that’s your negotiating position. Drive the distance plus the walk so you have some facts if his time is 30% over yours.
Understand that all of this is loose and make the assumption there’s time in there for you getting upset and probably pissed him off. Just be careful how you address someone asking if he’s any good. A response that he had a bit of trouble fixing yours. Do not call him an idiot, or any other names, or question his capabilities. Just he failed on your boat.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
A dear departed uncle used to say: "Never call the crocodile big mouth until you cross the river".

 

[Parro]

Called mechanic to work on main engine and Gen. He started working on engine but couldn't get it running. He said needed parts for carb. worked on Gen but couldn't fix that either. He said Carb needed to be rebuilt. Total of 1 hr on boat. Came back another time to replace carb on Gen. That didn't fix it. 1/2 hr on boat. Replaced fuel lift pump on another visit, still wouldn't run. Said he needed to talk to Westerbeke to solve the problem. Another 45 mins. On main engine my neighbor came over and fixed the problem in less than 1 hr. What should I pay the mechanic that didn't fix anything?

Told Mechanic I was sending Gen Carb to another shop for repair; since he didn't know what was going on. I told him to send bill for what was owed. Received invoice for parts replaced, and 10 hrs of labor. How should I handle the payment since he didn't fix anything and is charging for 10 hrs of labor?

WHAT SHOLULD I DO?

When faced with this sort of dilemma I try and look forward and determine what the likely outcome is going to be, then just go straight to that without agro.
For instance if the final outcome is you are going to pay the bill then just do that.

As to whether you pay or not:
If the person purported to be a mechanic then clearly there is incompetence. Either in mechanical skill, communication, or attitude, possibly all or others.
Based on this simplicity the mechanic should not be paid.
Now, if the incompetence is in communication only that’s different.
Is it possible that you suggested it could be a fuel problem without you realising? If so it would be reasonable for Mechanc to start with what you said. If on the other hand you simply said my engine won’t go can you fix it then he took on the job to diagnose and then fix it.
In the first scenario you could take responsibility as you essentially asked him to fix something that wasnt broken, his incompetence is that he did not realise you actually wanted the real fault fixed and he should have quickly realised and communicated with you.
Only you know all the conversations so you will have to go by your recollection. If you believe you asked him to come and fix my engine scenario then don’t pay anything. If you might have suggested the other scenario then pay the bill.

Wether you pay the mechanic or not don’t forget to pay your neighbor! Of course had the mechanic not done the elimination work then the neighbor might have gone done the fuel fault rabbit hole as well.

I am attempting to compress a complex situation into a few words so hopefully you gets the gist and can fill in the gaps.

 

[johnma]

this is one of the problems when dealing with a freelance anything. They have no support. They may be good or they may be bad. You have no way of knowing. If I have a problem that I cant fix myself I always go with the factory tech. Their price will be higher but this is an area where you get what you pay for. You can try to negotiate with him since you were there and clocked his hours, however he can always say he did research on your problem while he was off site.
John
John

 

[BruceK]

Apparently you did not understand my comments. Absent a contract with quid pro quo terms about the outcome of the work, the boat owner is liable for payment to the mechanic. So, yes, pay the mechanic and be more explicit about future engagements.

Could be different over there, but here(unless excluded, it would be odd if it was) it is an implied term of engaging a repairer that he will exercise reasonable care skill and competence in performing the work. If he didn`t, and it sounds that way,he has a problem getting paid.

 

[BandB]

Could be different over there, but here(unless excluded, it would be odd if it was) it is an implied term of engaging a repairer that he will exercise reasonable care skill and competence in performing the work. If he didn`t, and it sounds that way,he has a problem getting paid.

But can you prove he didn't. This reminds me a bit of how many times have you seen someone struggling to open the top of a jar and then you walk up and it opens for you easily. Does the first person deserve no credit, did they do nothing? Or would it have opened easily for them if they had tried once more.

 

[BruceK]

But can you prove he didn't...

Always a question of fact. Without rereading the whole catastrophe,I recall someone else came in and solved it easily and quickly. Even if lots of things were already excluded, that suggests there was something easy to point at.
It sounded like a "replace parts until we find a defective one" approach with the OP paying for the parts whether defective or not. A scattergun approach.
Yes,easier with hindsight, but it sounds to me like the OP didn`t get the skilled workmanlike competent mechanic he paid for. Usual way to prove if the(? unskilled) neighbour instantly pinpointing the issue isn`t enough, is expert evidence from someone who says "no, wrong approach, here`s what a competent mechanic would have done". Is that evidence available? Only discover that when you look but there is usually a "helpful" expert, even if you secretly ask several others first. Is it economic to go that route? I don`t know. Cases like that usually see a compromise resolution.

 

[BandB]

Always a question of fact. Without rereading the whole catastrophe,I recall someone else came in and solved it easily and quickly. Even if lots of things were already excluded, that suggests there was something easy to point at.
It sounded like a "replace parts until we find a defective one" approach with the OP paying for the parts whether defective or not. A scattergun approach.
Yes,easier with hindsight, but it sounds to me like the OP didn`t get the skilled workmanlike competent mechanic he paid for. Usual way to prove if the(? unskilled) neighbour instantly pinpointing the issue isn`t enough, is expert evidence from someone who says "no, wrong approach, here`s what a competent mechanic would have done". Is that evidence available? Only discover that when you look but there is usually a "helpful" expert, even if you secretly ask several others first. Is it economic to go that route? I don`t know. Cases like that usually see a compromise resolution.

One can file a suit in small claims court, but what one would need is a licensed yard or other provider that would attest that what the man in question did was not appropriate. That's where the problem comes in. No one can attest that the parts replaced by the first mechanic didn't need replacing or at least typically no one will do so. It's possible to make a case but difficult.

Now, on the other hand, if you pay partial or not at all, it all depends on the state. One state, the mechanic can place a lien. Another state, you can be charged with theft of services. Another state, the only way the mechanic can collect is suit and most aren't likely to do so.

Yes, compromise is usually the simplest solution but depends on both being willing to do so.

 

[SteveK]

The OP said that the neighbor fixed the coil, ignition coil? No spark comes to mind. The mechanic did not check for spark? This is a strange series of events.
The OP has not posted for 5 days, perhaps he has it resolved it after telling the mechanic the good news.

 

[BruceK]

One can file a suit in small claims court, but what one would need is a licensed yard or other provider that would attest that what the man in question did was not appropriate. That's where the problem comes in. No one can attest that the parts replaced by the first mechanic didn't need replacing or at least typically no one will do so. It's possible to make a case but difficult...

If a part was replaced and fixed nothing, it was not the right fix. Query it was a reasonable attempt, but surely the OP doesn`t get charged for the parts which ought get returned. If that happened multiple times it implies "trial and error"; doesn`t sound like good workmanlike wrenching to me.
Hopefully they have sorted it out. What bothered me was people (not you) saying "you retained him, you pay, no matter what". That just can`t be right, but people kept saying it.

 

[BandB]

If a part was replaced and fixed nothing, it was not the right fix. Query it was a reasonable attempt, but surely the OP doesn`t get charged for the parts which ought get returned. If that happened multiple times it implies "trial and error"; doesn`t sound like good workmanlike wrenching to me.
Hopefully they have sorted it out. What bothered me was people (not you) saying "you retained him, you pay, no matter what". That just can`t be right, but people kept saying it.

I say it too as retained with no agreement, not even a quote, and for labor and parts, not for task or accomplishment. We don't know that the parts he installed were not necessary. We know they weren't the final fix but he wasn't allowed to finish the job. There's evidence he didn't get the job completed, but none that what he did do wasn't needed or that he didn't do what he claimed to. We don't know those parts should get returned as we don't have the parts he removed to test. That's why some require all parts removed to be retained. Then it would be simple to put the parts he removed back in and see.

I would be upset that the job wasn't completed. However, meeting the burden of proof that the mechanic was at fault is often very difficult and the burden to do so generally falls on the customer. That may be unfair, but that's the typical way mechanics contracts work.

Worst trial and error industry and simply parts replacement I know is computer repair. Very little attempt at diagnosis, at least by the initial technicians involved but very few do work without a work order.

 

[Castrol]

Castrol

Called mechanic to work on main engine and Gen. He started working on engine but couldn't get it running. He said needed parts for carb. worked on Gen but couldn't fix that either. He said Carb needed to be rebuilt. Total of 1 hr on boat. Came back another time to replace carb on Gen. That didn't fix it. 1/2 hr on boat. Replaced fuel lift pump on another visit, still wouldn't run. Said he needed to talk to Westerbeke to solve the problem. Another 45 mins. On main engine my neighbor came over and fixed the problem in less than 1 hr. What should I pay the mechanic that didn't fix anything?

Told Mechanic I was sending Gen Carb to another shop for repair; since he didn't know what was going on. I told him to send bill for what was owed. Received invoice for parts replaced, and 10 hrs of labor. How should I handle the payment since he didn't fix anything and is charging for 10 hrs of labor?

WHAT SHOLULD I DO?

Do not pay him

 

[ksanders]

I say it too as retained with no agreement, not even a quote, and for labor and parts, not for task or accomplishment. We don't know that the parts he installed were not necessary. We know they weren't the final fix but he wasn't allowed to finish the job. There's evidence he didn't get the job completed, but none that what he did do wasn't needed or that he didn't do what he claimed to. We don't know those parts should get returned as we don't have the parts he removed to test. That's why some require all parts removed to be retained. Then it would be simple to put the parts he removed back in and see.

I would be upset that the job wasn't completed. However, meeting the burden of proof that the mechanic was at fault is often very difficult and the burden to do so generally falls on the customer. That may be unfair, but that's the typical way mechanics contracts work.

Worst trial and error industry and simply parts replacement I know is computer repair. Very little attempt at diagnosis, at least by the initial technicians involved but very few do work without a work order.

Rereading the original post from the OP I think that the mechanic was in the middle of troubleshooting when the neighbor came by, interjected himself into the process an fixed the problem.

At that point the OP sounds like he “fired” the mechanic.

I’m reversing my previous position, and think that the mechanic should get paid for hours worked hours plus parts.

 

[SteveK]

Rereading the original post from the OP I think that the mechanic was in the middle of troubleshooting when the neighbor came by, interjected himself into the process an fixed the problem.

At that point the OP sounds like he “fired” the mechanic.

I’m reversing my previous position, and think that the mechanic should get paid for hours worked hours plus parts.

Lacking any other information, I agree with your reasoning.

 

[dirtdoc1]

Negotiate the price way down! He was hired to fix it. He didn't. Someone else was able to fix the problems in 1/10th of the time. I'd pay him for parts and an hour or two.

If he is unwilling to negotiate tell him to take it or leave it. Send him a check for what you think is fair. If he cashes it he has legally agreed to your terms. If not I suppose he could always take you to small claims or maybe even file a lien against your boat. At that point you can decided to pay or fight.

My guess is he'll cash the check.

Good Luck

 

[Castrol]

Do not pay him

Maybe I was a bit quick but he does not even sound like he was a mechanic from the way the story has been told so I think the bill should at least be reduced.