Maybe not technically a Trawler, but thoughts? Silverton motor yacht

[Slowmo]

What people have mentioned about access is an important issue. To me it is critical to be able to easily and safely get around the exterior of the boat. One thing this boat has is curved decks with a reverse shear. My 21' Wellcraft (our Tahoe boat) has that and I can tell you the front deck is dangerous. All it takes is a bit of moisture and you slip, forget the 'anti-skid' decks, most are plenty slippery. So my biggest issue with the particular boat is that curving foredeck. I won't go into appearance, that is subjective and I'm pretty traditional in my taste in boats.

As to the motors that is a tough one. I've had 40' boats with gas engines and diesels. Frankly gas engines are easier to maintain IF you're familiar with working on car engines. Diesels are intrinsically more reliable but also intrinsically more expensive. A well treated gas engine can thousands of hours. However a gas engine that has been flogged and/or not well maintained can be done by 500 hours. Don't be fooled, a flogged or poorly maintained diesel can also die an early death. Also not all diesels are durable, some are known to be very problematic, plus far more expensive than a gas engine to replace. However, when you go to sell realize that some people won't buy a gas powered boat regardless.

Safety concerns of gasoline are, in my opinion, grossly over stated and always due to poor maintenance and carelessness. Keep in mind most of us drive gas powered vehicles and don't recoil in terror.

 

[BruceK]

...Safety concerns of gasoline are, in my opinion, grossly over stated and always due to poor maintenance and carelessness. Keep in mind most of us drive gas powered vehicles and don't recoil in terror.

The car/boat gas engine comparison suffers from the differences between them. A car engine is rarely located in a more or less sealed area where fumes can build up and which can potentiate explosive forces.

 

[Comodave]

We were actually looking for a gas powered boat when we bought our current boat. We tried to buy a Formula 34PC with big blocks. The engines had about 1200 hours so IMO they were done. My plan was to buy the boat and put in new engines over this winter. However the boat failed survey miserably since the owner had left water sitting in the bilges for a long time and the stringers were gone. If you accept that gas engines in a boat are usually good for about 1,000 hours then there isn’t a problem as long as you maintain them to a very high standard. As for the comparison to gas powered cars that holds absolutely no water since if you have a fuel leak in a gas powered car it will drip onto the pavement and evaporate harmlessly. Not so in a boat, completely and absolutely different. Fuel leaks in a gas powered boat can easily be a killer. When I was 13 I witnessed a 40’ boat blow up right after fueling. It killed 6 people, maimed 5 people and 3 were unhurt. It left a lasting impression on me as to maintenance and checking for fumes in a gas powered boat.

 

[rslifkin]

If you look at how many boat gas owners operate their boats, it's no wonder they blow up occasionally. Many never inspect or replace fuel lines unless they're obviously leaking, don't have fume detectors, use the blowers only when they think of it, never check the engine room before startup, etc. I'm honestly surprised there aren't more issues.


That said, I'm borderline paranoid compared to most. If we're not in a slip with shore power (where we may go days without running an engine or generator), the fume detector is left on at all times. Especially at anchor. Blowers always run for 4 - 5 minutes before startup of any engine or generator.

Before the first startup of the day, bilges get checked in person (sniff for fumes, visual check of everything, check fluids). I do a bilge check after fueling as well. And bilge checks are always done before turning on the blowers, that way I'll smell any slight fumes before they get pumped overboard.

 

[Seevee]

Mountians of diesel bias and prejudice here IMO.

Eric,


With all due respect, I've owned 48 gas engines in boats and planes, and I'm also an aircraft mechanic, and do a lot of my own work on both. Overall, the gas is MUCH less reliable and a MUCH shorter life span (alone by the comments in this thread).



While they are not necessarily horribly bad, I can strongly argue there's just better choices in the mid 30 boats and larger.



Yes, I'm biased after the past 40 years maintaining them.

 

[Seevee]

I dunno about the "for little more" part. In the upper 30s to low 40s size range, gassers are usually really cheap, even if the boat is in great condition. Particularly for older boats, as there are just so many older gas powered motoryachts out there and not all that many people who want them. Most of the decently likeable diesel boats in that size range either have a bigger target market or they're less common than the gas powered versions, so they sell for a lot more.


As an example, I'd be hard pressed to sell my boat for $50k, let alone more. But I'd have a hard time replacing it with something comparable and diesel powered for under $100k.

Well, a quick search found several diesel boats on BT for less than $50, and a few that would compare with the OPs Silverton less than $30.



Sure, your boat may be worth more and that's fine, I'd still argue to spend a few more bucks for a diesel.

 

[rslifkin]

Eric,


With all due respect, I've owned 48 gas engines in boats and planes, and I'm also an aircraft mechanic, and do a lot of my own work on both. Overall, the gas is MUCH less reliable and a MUCH shorter life span (alone by the comments in this thread).



While they are not necessarily horribly bad, I can strongly argue there's just better choices in the mid 30 boats and larger.



Yes, I'm biased after the past 40 years maintaining them.

When you say gas engines are unreliable, what kind of issues are you typically seeing? I'd put 90% of all unreliable gas engines down as having crappy ignition systems. A good, reliable electronic ignition setup goes a long way towards making it "just work".

 

[FF]

Some of our trawler folks have worked as rescue tow operators , they would have experience with gas engine longevity .

1,000 hours would be 50,000 miles in a car or truck, even in the 1940's that would have been unacceptable.

Diesels make the most sense with an annual use of 1000+ hours .

 

[rslifkin]

Some of our trawler folks have worked as rescue tow operators , they would have experience with gas engine longevity .

1,000 hours would be 50,000 miles in a car or truck, even in the 1940's that would have been unacceptable.

Diesels make the most sense with an annual use of 1000+ hours .

Good point. I think I remember Psneeld getting 4000+ hours out of 454s in tow service.

In general, a lot of gassers get put into boats that receive infrequent use and poor maintenance (and they often have exhaust systems that don't tolerate poor maintenance). And many get run too hard as well, as many people don't understand that any engine design has a max continuous output, and for many, it's significantly less than full power.

The basic 330 - 350hp 454s, for example, will live a much shorter life if you ask them to put out more than about 200 hp continuously. That lines up with the old Crusader recommendation of 3400 rpm as max continuous (which I follow for my Merc 454s which are nearly identical except for 2 bolt mains and a different exhaust setup). Basically, prop the old 454 to turn 4200+ at WOT with a normal load, don't ever run it above 3400 except for testing or a dire emergency, and it should live a good life. On my boat, when we run up on plane we're usually at 3300, but realistically, the engines spend a lot of their life loafing along at 1300 or so.

 

[Steve1.0]

I owned a Catalina 291 for a few years. It was a hurricane auction. I put two 350 chevy rebuilds in it and had many good hours aboard. IMHO the best thing about the gassers is how quietly they run at low speeds (with good mufflers). Always paranoid about fumes in the bilge, so my nose went down there before every start.

 

[psneeld]

Some of our trawler folks have worked as rescue tow operators , they would have experience with gas engine longevity .

1,000 hours would be 50,000 miles in a car or truck, even in the 1940's that would have been unacceptable.

Diesels make the most sense with an annual use of 1000+ hours .

To echo FF and suggest gasser longevity is more about neglect....but not OCD level maintenance either....

Had between 4-5000 hrs on the gasser 454 towboat I ran. Did things to it that would make many here faint. At the 10 year birthday of the engine every year till I left the job I begged the owners to swap the engine one winter so I wouldn't lose time during the season if it crapped out.

Beat the crap out of it for over 15 years till they took it out for cycle replacement, not due to problems.

The only ones I ever saw that crapped out in those 15 years as a gasser fleet was one due to rust flaked off in the electronic distributer and mostly injector elbow failures but that stopped as the boss put custom stainless elbows on. Other than that... never stranded by the engine in 15 years that I needed a tow for because I could fix on the fly or one time an oil cooler had a poorly brazed cap fall off.

Sure I like diesel for some reasons...but what tiny built I knew evaporated when I worked commercially for over 15 years and learned that gassers have their place too. Have had more things go wrong with my Lehman in half the hours and getting babied WAY more than the gasser. Yes, the gasser was a younger engine, but typical prices suggest you can replace/rebuild gassers 2X as often and still come out ahead.