Marine Power 454 gas engines

[Art]

What is so special about LS Engines?

Quote: "The main reason that they're such a compact V8 engine is because of their “old-school” pushrod design, as well as all of the modern designs they used when designing the engine block. The push-rod design that they continue to use is unlike almost all modern engines that have overhead cams."

I've got a 430 cid, 400 hp, 500 fpt 1967 Buick engine [a bit hopped-up when rebuilt 15K miles ago] in my 67 Wildcat. Push Rods Baby!

However...having old-school block style with no modern designs included, as well as huge high flow Rochester Quadrajet carburetor and domed heads... its fuel usage is steep. Would be very expensive to be powering a boat; especially having twins. But, Wow - Power galore!

 

[psneeld]

Isn't Ford's new V8 (Triton V10 replacement) an old school designed block?

Might be a candidate for marinization.

 

[Art]

Isn't Ford's new V8 (Triton V10 replacement) an old school designed block?

Might be a candidate for marinization.

Big auto makers' engineers have found ways to pack a lot of punch into smaller cid gasoline engines. Makes me wonder the ratio of Btu per gallon gas in new tech engines as compared to old-school engines... and how they are able to raise hp and torque so much higher [gasoline 116,090 Btu/gal - diesel 128,488 Btu per gallon]. I guess the engineers of new model gasoline engines are not so much worried about the Btu capability of gasoline as much as they are the efficiency of how their "new-tech" engines are able to wring out every ounce of resulting power from the gas Btu.

Our 2014, 4wd, Lincoln MKT SUV has the following engine. It's a freaking brute... punch the accelerator and all four tires can be let loose! In the 8 years since I read about other gasoline vehicle engines that perform even better.

At 4,400 lbs curb weight: This Lincoln is capable of accelerating from 0 to 60 mph in 6.6 sec, 0 to 100 mph in 16.6 sec, 0 to 124 mph 31.2 sec; quarter mile drag time 14.8 sec. - that's fast for 4,400 lbs. in a stock vehicle!

A pair of these brutes in our Tolly would be fun to pilot. And, I imagine would get darn near same nmpg as our old 350 cid, 255 hp, carbureted V8s... Except at much higher planing speeds than our old-school, 1977 Chevy engine designs can deliver.

Here's basic engine stats.

- New 3.5-liter, direct-injection, twin-turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine make this Lincoln powerful; 370 horsepower.
- 430 lb.-ft. torque is delivered by new EcoBoost engine.
- Torque is produced across a broad range of engine rpm; better acceleration, significantly improved performance, good gas mileage.

 

[psneeld]

Read up on the Ford...the article I read basically said smaller and lighter and powerful engines were not gonna last in big heavy trucks (above F-150s). Read " big heavy boats pushing hard like towing"...

Thus the "godzilla" engine they developed...same displacement as V10 buy old school block with modern fueling for mileage standards.

They have a huge medium duty and RV market to keep happy.

As to Lincoln stats...my new little Ford Ranger (2.3 ecoboost) weighs more than that Lincoln. Plenty for the application. While fuel miserly and can tow 7000 pounds, it ain't no F-250 through the big ones for haulin' and towin'.

I seriously doubt the new ecoboost engines would last long in the environment and demands I put the assistance towboat through, even though it was only 26" and relatively light.

 

[Art]

Read up on the Ford...the article I read basically said smaller and lighter and powerful engines were not gonna last in big heavy trucks (above F-150s). Read " big heavy boats pushing hard like towing"...


I seriously doubt the new ecoboost engines would last long in the environment and demands I put the assistance towboat through, even though it was only 26" and relatively light.

I sure don't know how these ecobost engines would last in "boat" service... but... I do know they last multiple #'s of hundred thousand miles in Livery Service transport vehicles.

A main reason [in 2019] we purchased 2014 Lincoln MKT 4wd eco bost:

We'd been looking for a "newer" SUV; our 1998 Explorer was getting long in the tooth. I found a good deal on a Lincoln MKT with only 70K miles. So... I began research. Soon found that the engines were often lasting over 300K miles in service for Livery companies. Heck I drove one for sale with nearly 500K miles on it... ran fine.

Anyway... I simply wonder if a vehicle engine that withstands rather rough Livery Service drivers for multi hundred thousand miles could me marineized as boat motor??

 

[psneeld]

I sure don't know how these ecobost engines would last in "boat" service... but... I do know they last multiple #'s of hundred thousand miles in Livery Service transport vehicles.

A main reason [in 2019] we purchased 2014 Lincoln MKT 4wd eco bost:

We'd been looking for a "newer" SUV; our 1998 Explorer was getting long in the tooth. I found a good deal on a Lincoln MKT with only 70K miles. So... I began research. Soon found that the engines were often lasting over 300K miles in service for Livery companies. Heck I drove one for sale with nearly 500K miles on it... ran fine.

Anyway... I simply wonder if a vehicle engine that withstands rather rough Livery Service drivers for multi hundred thousand miles could me marineized as boat motor??

Pretty sure if Ford whet to the trouble to redesign an engine for the heavy service demands that made them first create a V10...maybe the "livery service vehicle warranty" claims made them rethink.

 

[rslifkin]

I'd expect the small turbocharged gas engines would work fine in a boat. It's just a question of how much continuous output the design can handle with a good lifespan. It very easily could only be half of peak power output. Or they may need better exhaust valves, piston cooling, etc. to life a good life under heavy loads.

Heavy truck buyers and boaters are conservative, so both are hesitant to try stuff that doesn't follow the proven formula they're used to.

 

[psneeld]

I will bet with the engineers...either they recommend diesels or heavy duty gassers... for heavy duty applications.

Sure a little 100HP gasser with the right drive train can push a 30-50 footer at 5-7 knots without breathing too hard.

But generally, heavy duty motors for heavy duty applications are the much safer bet in my mind.

 

[Art]

I'd expect the small turbocharged gas engines would work fine in a boat. It's just a question of how much continuous output the design can handle with a good lifespan. It very easily could only be half of peak power output. Or they may need better exhaust valves, piston cooling, etc. to life a good life under heavy loads.

Heavy truck buyers and boaters are conservative, so both are hesitant to try stuff that doesn't follow the proven formula they're used to.

I agree with items in 1st paragraph [of course in the second one too!] That said: Why don't some marine engineers take on the marinization of these new high performance design gas engines?? Or... have they - or... are they - and... things didn't/don't work out too well??

 

[diver dave]

I will bet with the engineers...either they recommend diesels or heavy duty gassers... for heavy duty applications.

Sure a little 100HP gasser with the right drive train can push a 30-50 footer at 5-7 knots without breathing too hard.

But generally, heavy duty motors for heavy duty applications are the much safer bet in my mind.

Are our 29 HP Diesels heavy duty? [emoji848]

I’ve got thick skin…

 

[Art]

I will bet with the engineers...either they recommend diesels or heavy duty gassers... for heavy duty applications.

Sure a little 100HP gasser with the right drive train can push a 30-50 footer at 5-7 knots without breathing too hard.

But generally, heavy duty motors for heavy duty applications are the much safer bet in my mind.

I too believe in HD. But - with today's new engineering specs and improved materials... maybe.... just maybe lighter weight power plants with higher hp and torque can be developed for small to mid size boats??

 

[rslifkin]

I agree with items in 1st paragraph [of course in the second one too!] That said: Why don't some marine engineers take on the marinization of these new high performance design gas engines?? Or... have they - or... are they - and... things didn't/don't work out too well??

I think it's Indmar that's marinized the Ford 2.3 Ecoboost for ski boats and such. Not sure how many they've sold though. They've also marinized the Ford 6.2 overhead cam V8 from the Raptor.

 

[Art]

It would be just too cool if I could simply slip a couple of lighter weight and considerably higher hp / higher torque new design gasoline engines into the bilge of our little baby 34' Tolly tri cabin.

I'd like to be able to cruise doing 25-28 knots [at 1 nmpg... or better!] and with mid to high 30's at WOT. Ahhh - "If Wishes Were Horses"!!

 

[Jeff F]

I too believe in HD. But - with today's new engineering specs and improved materials... maybe.... just maybe lighter weight power plants with higher hp and torque can be developed for small to mid size boats??

That's been relentlessly happening in the outboard market.

 

[Art]

That's been relentlessly happening in the outboard market.

I love outboards for outboard "style" boats. I don't love outboards for inboard "style" boats. And, yes... outboard engines are experiencing revolutionary alterations. Some can be deemed great improvements... some not so much!