Marina Surcharge

[Bryant]

Marina surcharge

Has anyone suggested, going to the yard management and ask for a break down of the yard fees?

Yes, he should do that, but he’s going to get a load of BS. 40% is unreasonable.
What he needs to do is make sure that they didn’t notify him up front in some way and that they truly just slipped this in after the fact because he used outside work.
This isn’t standard practice among ethical boatyards. It’s very common with unethical ones. At least in my area.

 

[psneeld]

Yard tackons to outside contractors are common in many eastern areas and certainly not unethical.


40% may be a bit too high.... But I would like to hear the marinas explanation before condemning them.

 

[Bryant]

Yard tackons to outside contractors are common in many eastern areas and certainly not unethical.


40% may be a bit too high.... But I would like to hear the marinas explanation before condemning them.

40% isn’t “a bit to high”, it’s exorbitant and if they did it without any notification up front then yes, it’s unethical.

Reasonable tackons that are up front and stated in plain form are one thing. That doesn’t appear to be what happened here.

I just did a $20,000 Re fit in a local yard. They did part of the work and I arranged for the rest. No surcharge. Hidden surprise fees may be common where you are, not where I have lived. At least not common with ethical yards, and that’s what we are talking about, hidden fees that aren’t mentioned till the work is done.

 

[psneeld]

Reread from the beginning...you seem to have missed how it all went down.


No one is discussing "hidden fees".


40% for some work might be high, might not be for some jobs...I like facts before I accuse people of being unethical.



You are throwing around ethics yet many yards I have been to from NJ to FL do charge outside contractors to work there, not all but more than a few.

 

[SoWhat]

My current marina just manages a marina. No shop associated with it. They do request you use insured contractors but aren't hard nosed about it. Some former marinas I have dealt with: One a family run marina with family owned shop. They did not want outside contractors at all. I understood his position. They allowed you to work on your own boat but owner kept an eye on everything going on. He would have charged for the air you breath if he could have.

A second family owned marina sold out and the new owners needed more income. Discovered I was not only paying a higher fee for a mechanic I was also paying him to ride around the mooring field to find me once he left the dock. He didn't fix the problem and had to return. New owner wanted to charge me again for mechanics joyride. Words were exchanged. Bill was adjusted. Left that day.

Most of the people I hire to do work are by a handshake. I don't ask a million questions. (Unless the job is over a thousand and then I may think about getting an estimate) I try to keep drama out of my life. Current marina is great but ownership changed last year. I know the new owner from many years ago, he owns several marinas and is hands off. Typically keeps local management. I have my fingers crossed.

 

[Bryant]

Reread from the beginning...you seem to have missed how it all went down.


No one is discussing "hidden fees".


40% for some work might be high, might not be for some jobs...I like facts before I accuse people of being unethical.



You are throwing around ethics yet many yards I have been to from NJ to FL do charge outside contractors to work there, not all but more than a few.

Apparently you need to go back and read from the beginning. He said he had no contract and no one discussed surcharges with him then he got hit with a 40% surcharge he didn’t expect. When you read the other details, hidden fees are exactly what we are talking about if he provided all the information.

I’ve lived in Va, NC, East Coast and Gulf Coast Fl, So Cal and Washington State. Yes, many yards charge fees but they are up front and in the open. Want to pay that, fine, pay it if you go into it with eyes open. Get hit with a 40% surcharge that no one mentioned, wasn’t in a contract or posted then that is unethical and I would fight it in any way I could.

Now, I’m assuming the original post and question is accurate. If not, then it’s a different question. If so, then yes, that 40% represents a “hidden fee”.

 

[ssobol]

I know what they will say. “EPA fees, usage fees, yard fees, disposal fees” etc.
problem is, they should have been up front about this. 40% is unreasonable and is clearly meant to discourage external work.

What we don’t know is, did he sign something he didn’t read? Is there a big sign in the yard office that says “40% surcharge on external work”?

If they really slipped this in after the fact with no warning about it, I wouldn’t stand for it.

But some of those fees at least should be public information. The EPA fees should be published. You can find out the disposal fees by contacting there disposal service.

 

[BruceK]

Reread from the beginning...you seem to have missed how it all went down.


No one is discussing "hidden fees".


40% for some work might be high, might not be for some jobs...I like facts before I accuse people of being unethical.



You are throwing around ethics yet many yards I have been to from NJ to FL do charge outside contractors to work there, not all but more than a few.

They key facts related by the OP are that he rejected a quote of $3400 from the marina and accepted a quote of $600 from an independent contractor outside the marina to fit a piece of timber.
On the facts provided the marina did nothing. Except have its quote rejected and undercut by the independent guy by over 80%. What they did to earn $240 is unexplained. And probably rightly so, because it looks inexplicable.
In light of the contractors price, the Marina quote seems even more excessive than its Surcharge. I`d say it is a good Marina not to be on,similar conduct will likely recur, voting with the feet(or in this case a turning prop) is indicated.

 

[smitty477]

They key facts related by the OP are that he rejected a quote of $3400 from the marina and accepted a quote of $600 from an independent contractor outside the marina to fit a piece of timber.
On the facts provided the marina did nothing. Except have its quote rejected and undercut by the independent guy by over 80%. What they did to earn $240 is unexplained. And probably rightly so, because it looks inexplicable.
In light of the contractors price, the Marina quote seems even more excessive than its Surcharge. I`d say it is a good Marina not to be on,similar conduct will likely recur, voting with the feet(or in this case a turning prop) is indicated.

There are no facts posted about what happened after he got the quote for $3400.
- did he get this quote in writing?
- did this quote include only what he exactly wanted?
- did he speak to the marine about this quote seeming excessive and talk it out?
- Did the marina have an opportunity to review this quote (apparently from a contractor) and perhaps get another contractor quote
- after the OP did go out and get another quote independent of the marina did he then speak to the marina.
- was the entire extra costs applied by the marina directly associated with the non approved contactors work.

As I posted before - I do not know where the OP is but the boat yards in his area seem to have very clear positions posted on their respective websites.

There are always ways to ensure against these mistakes/misunderstandings/problems ahead of time - not so much after you take actions which are not mutually agreed upon.

 

[psneeld]

Ya gotta love such strong opinions based on one side of the story, loose facts as there are no documents to review or even sufficient info about "verbal agreements".


There was an agreement between the OP and an outside contractor, it "evolved into something else (bill from the marina).


I guess I just like more info before I start slamming someone's (or business's) reputation based on one side of the story and a thin one at that (not sayig it's not true, just not enough info).


The OP hasn't been heard from since post #1...I think I will wait and not argue pretty much thin air.

 

[ksanders]

Pay it with Amex. Leave that marina ASAP then call Amex and dispute the charge. Send the Marina a certified letter stating that you are disputing the surcharge and if they don’t drop it you will sue them in small claims claims court for the cost of the sheriff delivering the summons, court costs and your original $240. Just make sure there is not a sign somewhere saying “outside contractors 40% surcharge” or something similar and make sure there is no small print on any document or work order you signed.
It’s not the $240. Unscrupulous marinas need to be held accountable. The next job might be an extra $2k you weren’t expecting.

That is FRAUD.

When you call a credit card company you can dispute the charge if...

1. You did not authorize the charge
2. The merchant did not deliver the goods or service associated with the credit card charge.

You cannot dispute a charge because you do not agree with it in the first place. The fact is that if you give a merchant your card number for a service that has already been performed, or a item you have already received, you cannot later dispute the charge.

If you do, you are committing FRAUD. That is like issuing a check for payment and then calling the bank and stopping payment.

If someone did that to me the first thing i would do is send them to a collection agency to recover. Then we can look for that on your credit report.

 

[psneeld]

AMEX used to favor the cardholder so much that both my assistance tower company owners stopped taking it....


Because of disputing charges AFTER they were told what the estimate was and were towed in.

 

[JLD]

It's too bad that the OP hasn't made any additional posts to this thread, addressing some of the questions that have been raised. Perhaps he is to busy working on or enjoying his boat?

In life you "choose your battles". Personally, this is a battle that I would not choose if I was in the OP shoes, but based upon the posts to this thread, others would.

In any event, I think I would be more upset with the craftsman that the OP hired, rather than the Marina.

Jim

 

[tiltrider1]

Amex is very customer favorable, yes. Just because you found a way to get out of the yard with out paying does not mean the yard doesn’t have a claim against the boat. It’s very hard to sell a boat with an outstanding lien against it. You are much better off paying the bill and then filing a claim against the yard.

 

[BruceK]

There are no facts posted about what happened after he got the quote for $3400.
- did he get this quote in writing?
- did this quote include only what he exactly wanted?
- did he speak to the marine about this quote seeming excessive and talk it out?
- Did the marina have an opportunity to review this quote (apparently from a contractor) and perhaps get another contractor quote
- after the OP did go out and get another quote independent of the marina did he then speak to the marina.
- was the entire extra costs applied by the marina directly associated with the non approved contactors work.

As I posted before - I do not know where the OP is but the boat yards in his area seem to have very clear positions posted on their respective websites.

There are always ways to ensure against these mistakes/misunderstandings/problems ahead of time - not so much after you take actions which are not mutually agreed upon.

While admiring your inventive thoughts and conjuring of possibilities,I still accept the OP`s word he got a marina quote for the amount stated.

 

[O C Diver]

Sometimes one needs to look at the money versus the percentage.
If you agree to the yard tacking on a 10% fee for an outside contractor, a $2,500 ,job equates to a $250 fee. The yard has done no more to earn that fee than what the yard did to earn a fee from the OP.

At some point, the OP needs to realize that he just needs to pay the fee and figure out what to do in the future regarding staying or moving to another marina. Getting into legal issues with your boat trapped in a marina with storage adding up, makes no sense.

Ted

 

[smitty477]

While admiring your inventive thoughts and conjuring of possibilities,I still accept the OP`s word he got a marina quote for the amount stated.

I also accept the word of the OP for the quote as stated - and that is where the facts end. Here are some possibilities for what might have happened if there was a conversation after the quote was delivered if the OP spoke to the yard manager:
- OP , what gives with this huge quote?

Potential yard manager replies....
...We are really expensive with that work, I am sorry
...that is a high quote, let me get another contractor to look at that
….that quote is for repairing the section and refinishing the entire gunnel teak
...that quote is for repairing that section and refastening all areas otherwise they will fail shortly
...that quote is for the gunnel and the other work you had asked for at the same time

Like I said I do not know where the OP is -- but in his very immediate area there are marinas that allow some work by the owners IF they just ask ahead of time. Otherwise there stated policy is to charge heavily for neglecting the rules and jeopardizing the yards insurances. I have no idea about that area - but it was quite easy to look up the yards in the areas and read the policies in a few minutes

 

[firstbase]

Still think the villain in this was the contractor. If the marina had given him $50K in business in the past then he was well aware of their fee and how things worked. Yet he mentioned nothing and took a deposit. Why? Because he was trying to scam the marina. He got caught somehow and had to gave the deposit back.

Not sure it's possible to tear this event apart any more than its been torn apart.

 

[OldDan1943]

This incident begs the question, is this the first time he has taken a boat to the yard? If not, he is well aware of the 'yard fees' and changes in price.

LOL you want another example of "yard fees"? Deal with an attorney.... They will quote you one price and then tack of 'firm fees', filing fees etc. I did learn a lesson.... OUCH OUCH OUCH

 

[psneeld]

I also accept the word of the OP for the quote as stated - and that is where the facts end. Here are some possibilities for what might have happened if there was a conversation after the quote was delivered if the OP spoke to the yard manager:
- OP , what gives with this huge quote?

Potential yard manager replies....
...We are really expensive with that work, I am sorry
...that is a high quote, let me get another contractor to look at that
….that quote is for repairing the section and refinishing the entire gunnel teak
...that quote is for repairing that section and refastening all areas otherwise they will fail shortly
...that quote is for the gunnel and the other work you had asked for at the same time

Like I said I do not know where the OP is -- but in his very immediate area there are marinas that allow some work by the owners IF they just ask ahead of time. Otherwise there stated policy is to charge heavily for neglecting the rules and jeopardizing the yards insurances. I have no idea about that area - but it was quite easy to look up the yards in the areas and read the policies in a few minutes

Good reply Smitty...


Having worked closely with several marinas, a friend that owns a couple, and usually with an "in" because of my background with many different marina managers and employees.....


I get that most boat owners don't have a clue how it all works. ..when you compare a marina with any other business that is making well above a 10-50% profit in things... They are no better, worse or less "ethical" than others.

 

[Gdavid]

I found a local craftsman that quoted me $600.00 to cut and shape it to fit.

I told the local craftsman where the boat was and he said it was no problem with him doing the work because he was friends with the marina owner.

He then send me a picture where he installed the new wood and said that was part of the $600.00 price. He now does not want me to pay him but the marina will bill me.

It would be nice to have a little follow up from the OP but it sounds like he did not expect the craftsman to install the wood, only to shape it to fit and was not expecting the craftsman to installed it. I'm guessing that this is where things got fuzzy, it is one thing to have measurements taken on your boat for an item to be constructed and delivered to the customer without performing any "work" in the yard. I don't see how you could precisely shape a piece of trim to fit well without test fitting and adjusting on site. Clearly there was some conversation between the boatyard and the craftsman that the OP was not privy to.

While arguments can be made on both ends, I would not be surprised by a boat yard objecting to a contractor coming in just to take measurements as well. For example: A boat owner may expect ordering new canvas to be a simple as a visit to the boat to take measurements and another visit to install whereas most anyone who has bought custom canvas before knows that much of the work may occur on site.

I would like to say that we have had nothing but good experience with Washburn's in Solomons Island and I know that we are not alone as satisfied customers. They are very clear in their communication and are a pleasure to work with. Like most yards, they have a combination of in-house workforce and relationships with specialized contractors to perform services like soda blasting. We do most work on the boat ourselves but in some instances have had the yard do some work, expectations have been very clear each time and the results and bills are always straightforward. I recognize that Maryland environmental regulations and oversight of boat yards and marinas are stringent and I appreciate the yards that continue to allow boaters to perform work on their own boats, it is becoming a liability for the yards to even allow this. Right, wrong or indifferent these regulations are outside of our control and I do everything I can to operate cleanly out of respect for the bay, neighboring boats and especially the yard operators. Communication is key.

 

[nobles9596]

Marina name was Deltaville Boat Yard / Deltaville Marina= Owner Keith Ruse

 

[MYTraveler]

I now receive a bill from the marina for the $600.00 plus a 40% surcharge.

What would you do? Pay it or dispute it with the credit card company?

I suspect that the marina has a 40% surcharge in the fine print that you signed, perhaps without noticing. If so, IMO, you owe the money. Otherwise, call the marina and ask about the bill. Point out that you never engaged them to do anything and that you had agree to pay a craftsman $600, out the door, inclusive of all tax, licensing, dealer prep, etc.. Tell them you have no agreement with them and feel no obligation to pay them a penny. Point out that it would have been as easy for you to move the boat to a public dock for a few hours during the installation. Then prepare to compromise in the spirit of friendship.

 

[BruceK]

Seeing a gap of 3 years between posts 81,and post 82 by the OP, it`s likely resolved meantime, the OP could tell us how. Perhaps it ended negatively, thus the reveal of the marina.