Marina ownership

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Bajabuzz

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
75
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Simbalaut
Vessel Make
Navigator 5300 Sundance
Hi All, the Admiral and I are considering a small marina in BC as a retirement biz.
Having no experience in owning a marina I was wondering if any of our fellow TF people have past or current experience.
Our goals are to find something smallish, probably with out a fuel dock, mostly resident type customers.
Really looking for info on typical problems, unusual problems, lifespan of floating docks and decks, and anything else you can think of.

Thanks in advance!

Charlie B.
 
My cousin owns two in St Pete area, one has about 35 to 40 slips and he says his only real profit comes from the lease on the bar/restaurant on the premises at the one. Maintenance and expenses eat up all the income from the slips. The other has only a handful of slips, but does a good business dry storing center consoles and selling fuel. He also is a dealer for a major outboard motor maker and that is profitable.

FWIW, he is always complaining about the issues he had with his employees. Dock hands, managers etc. the offices have to be staffed all day, mail had to be held, WiFi is constantly crashing, regulatory compliance is an ongoing issue, etc.
 
Last edited:
I hope you know the oldest joke in boating.....


Q: How do you make a million dollars in boating?
A: Start with 2 million.....


Seriously though...many marinas fail because they are unsustainable with too few slips and no secondary cash flow.


Ones with boat sales or good service departments can flourish if there is good management.


Be real careful about one that heavily depends on any one leg as that leg can disappear quickly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Art
The best advice I can give you is that marina businesses are very local. What that means is that the business model is based on the local situation. As an example, a marina in Lake Superior has a very short season where most boats are removed from the water for an extended season. So, they need to make their money in a very short season. A marina in Florida may have high and low seasons, but it goes on 12 months a year. Before you invest, you need to understand the business model and what parts of the marina are money makers.

The final pearl of wisdom I will give you is that the money you invest needs to make you money without working. If you invested that money in the stockmarket or other investment, it makes you money without lifting a finger. If you have to work the marina, it needs to pay you a salary in addition to returning money on your investment. If it doesn't, your working for free.

Ted
 
Thank you all for your input!
I have owned and operated small businesses most of my adult life. Just never been in the marine industry. There is certainly lots to learn which is why I am asking.
Having raced cars as an amateur for over 20 years I certainly understand the concept of making millions out of billions! But I wouldn’t change a thing about racing.
Understanding the Ins and outs of marina ownership is my first job. It may turn out to be the wrong choice once I can see the books of some eligible prospects.

Thanks again! Keep it coming!
 
I doubt you'll have trouble finding a small marina to buy in BC - it seems like at any given time many are for sale. Farewell Harbor near Port McNeill was closed for several years and now back operating as a non-fishing destination. Pierre's at Echo Bay was recently sold. Greenway Sound, also in the Broughtons, has been closed and for sale for many years. Kwatsi Bay is also for sale. I'm sure there are many others. Make sure this is the lifestyle and risk you really want in retirement, being always on-duty, with little time to use your own boat in the short season of these latitudes. You should also investigate the considerable power of BC's Indian Tribes over marinas and their operation...Pender Harbour and the Sechelt Tribe are an example to check out. Mostly, buyer beware. You might be well- served to hire a consultant before committing, to find out what you are really bargaining for.
 
Last edited:
So, I too have been running businesses, some small, some medium, for over forty years. And I too raced for over twenty. I hung up my helmet a while ago.

But I wouldn’t touch the marina business. In many years of boat ownership and talking with marina owners and managers, it appears to be a brutal business with thin margins and immense potential downside.

I once owned a Chevrolet dealership. The learning curve was steep because you are running five completely different businesses under one roof: new cars, used cars (and yes, these two things are totally different), service, parts and finance/insurance. Mastering all took years and it was a lousy business. Thankfully, GM was still buying out points of sale in the northeast in those days and they paid us to close. It was a happy day.

The marina business is also several different businesses in one and from what I can see, every one has significant challenges. The regulatory environment alone will make you a crazy person. I just don’t see any path to enough gross margin to make the pain worthwhile.

Yes, many of the large marinas do well. Safe Harbor is buying many of them. But the capital requirements to build a marina to the point of making sense financially are onerous.

Of course, this is just my $.02. If you find yourself wanting to proceed, just throw your heart into it and refuse to fail. It’s like racing. Finishing second really, really sucks so you really have no choice but to do whatever it takes to win. Winning is better. :)
 
Never owned or ran one, but I've been a customer in many. As someone said above it's a very "local" business. What works in the PNW may be completely different than the Chesapeake where I am.

15 years ago I bought a boat and was offered a spot on a wait list at all but one small marina where I was able to secure a mooring.

Fast forward to now where, as far as I can see, vacancy rates are 20-40%. Many marinas have been bought up cheap, or in foreclosure (they mortgaged the place when the going was good to finance expansion and expensive amenities) by LARGE marina holding companies that own many of them and have "membership programs" economies of scale etc etc. Others have gone condo. The only small operations I know that are left are those that own their facilities unencumbered. And they have loyal long time staff. And they are scraping by. Regulations, insurance, cost of maintenance of a business sitting on/in the water it is NOT easy.

They say when you start a business you need to be capitalized for three years of startup. I would add at least two to that for the marina business. And, you will be there 7 days a week, 7am to 7pm if not later. Worse than the restaurant business.....

Good luck.
 
The people I know who have done well in the marina business are real estate developers. They focused on marinas where upland rentals provide additional revenue, minimal staffing is needed, and most tenants are long term.

Marinas in the PNW that focus on transients are a really tough business. Very seasonal.
 
Can you buy one, then knock it down and build luxury waterfront condos with slips?

That model seems to work in Florida.
 
Do you have any accounting experience ??? It would great to work for someone else for a year or so to understand the ins and outs of the business. It would help if you could live there and rent out your dirt house. Also having multiple income streams. Rental from a retail outlet. Rental from a tour/charter business for signage and advertising. A cut from the divers and service people, and longer term leases for liveaboards. If you find someone who wants to retire in 5-10 years you might be able to work there for a below market wage and a percentage of ownership each year. That helps him ease into retirement, and you ease into ownership.
 
This is what I can tell you. The PNW cruising season is too short to make a profit off of. Places like Pierre’s Echo Cove Marina have lots of side hustles to make it work. You will need to find a place that attracts a more permanent crowd.

The other thing I can tell you is credit check your customer before you let them in. If you don’t you will end up with a marina of derelicts and no rent income.

Operationally, marina’s make good money. The problem is every one I know who owns one inherited it. They live well off the cash flow. I have no idea what the CAP rate is and I suspect that might be why so many say it’s a loosing business.
 
Thanks for all the input, I do appreciate a place to bounce it off fellow boaters.
It has to pencil out to move forward. And this is not a must do thing. Just something I have considered for a long time.
 
I don't own and have never owned a marina. That is after researching them very carefully and evaluating over 100 marinas. Safe Harbor was mentioned as buying many, but please note that there was a predecessor company to Safe Harbor. They went bankrupt. They were unable to pay their land and facility leases when things took a downturn.

On just slip rental, one will never make an adequate income to justify the work involved. One question is who owns and controls the land and water? Who regulates the marina? Then you get into slips which are difficult and sometimes impossible to insure. Into slip tenants who are a challenge when they don't pay. In vacancies which can be very heavy parts of the year in most places as it's a seasonal business.

You need every dollar of revenue possible and that means you need fuel sales and you need sales in a marina store from snacks to fishing supplies and many successful marinas have a restaurant they rent out. The marina owner is smart enough not to run it and the restaurant tenant changes nearly every year. Many marinas do well with their yard and mechanics income.

I will add that it is almost impossible to be a marina owner and a boater. The marina takes your time when you'd want to boat and it burns you out enough that boating tends to lose it's appeal. Our final decision was to not purchase anything pertaining to boating and keep it strictly as our hobby.

The marina business to me for most is to make a little money nine out of ten years, then to lose a substantial amount the tenth year when a recession hits or fuel prices or boat prices skyrocket or a pandemic hits. Just know something will. If you've built up and saved money for nine years ahead of the bad year, you may be ok, but what if the bad year is your first year?

Some of those who brag about how many marinas they own, really don't own much of anything, but have the right to operate a marina owned by a condo or development or owned by a city or state. Suntex is a great example. They don't own Miami Beach or Bahia Mar marinas or the former Loggerheads in the sense many think. Westrec is another. and they don't own all the Chicago Harbors. These companies operate marinas without having to make the huge investments and are only interested in large, busy marinas.
 
1 more comment on individual owner/operator vs investor owner which I would have been. Unless it fulfills a dream to manage a marina, I see the criteria as the same. If a marina can't provide a return on investment while paying people to run it, then as an owner operator you are likely to make less than you would in a similar job working for someone else. It might sound great to some to say they're making $X but if that doesn't provide a return on their investment in addition to paying a decent salary for their time and effort, then they're worse off than just working for someone else. One must make sure there are two incomes, one as return of investment and the other as employee.
 
Baja Buzz
Suggest you cruise up the coast and spend a summer staying at marinas in BC and AK. Talk to the owners and operators to gain insight. No substitute for first hand observations. The marina business requires strong carpentry, electrical and marine skills. Add to that free cash flow from a non marine business to weather the upgrades and unprofitable periods.

The business is hands on 24/7/12. That then raises immigration. The list is endless. May I suggest a cheaper alternative, buy a Fleming.
 
Has to pencil out

Thanks for all the input, I do appreciate a place to bounce it off fellow boaters.
It has to pencil out to move forward. And this is not a must do thing. Just something I have considered for a long time.

What do you mean? Most marinas are real estate plays. The ones I looked at in the Florida Keys only generated about half the cash flows needed to carry the debt.

People bought them for long term appreciation, not the current cash flow one is looking for in a retirement situation.
 
What do you mean? Most marinas are real estate plays. The ones I looked at in the Florida Keys only generated about half the cash flows needed to carry the debt.

People bought them for long term appreciation, not the current cash flow one is looking for in a retirement situation.

Exactly! In a perfect world the business will return a small profit each year, but you will make your money when you sell the land to a developer.
 
While I agree that owning and running a (small) marina does not sound like a fun job and comes with a lot of headaches, it is not so hard to do a proforma P&L, cash flow and balance sheet for such a business. Just be sure to assume less than optimal conditions and the effect of global warming / extreme weather events on the marina and your insurance costs. There are increasing regulatory issues relating to work done in the marina and avoiding fuel (though a potential profit center) may be advisable. What I have noticed in this area (MA/RI) is that many/most of the smaller marinas have already been consolidated under larger corporate owners or have had the financial ability to grow independently by adding docks, managing vessels out of the water, doing maintenance and repair work, and operating other services such as fuel, food and bar facilities. The latter seem to be more the exception than the rule. Going into such a venture without deep pockets is probably a loser. Lastly, as mentioned previously, as the owner/manger you had better be prepared to work long days and weekends, and to be on call the rest of the time. It may look like fun but it is work, plain and simple. So, you need to take home a decent pay check. At the end of the day, you will own a chunk of real estate that will be even harder to sell than a boat!!

FYI, many years ago I considered doing the same thing and am so glad I did not!!
 
I could argue that the marina business is a lot like other businesses that have multiple parts of the income streams.


Slip rent, transient and long term
Fuel Sales
Maintenance
Boat Sales
Restaurant
Ships store,

Etc.


Other similar businesses:
Restaurants (eat in/out, delivery, bar, entertainment, banquets, etc)

FBOs (aviation) Just like a marina.

Car dealerships, as mentioned above

and many others....


I could argue strongly that an owner first be a manager. You don't need to be an accountant, but need have one, and know how to read statements. You don't need to be a salesman, but will need one. You don't need to do the work but will need workers.


And add the complexity of having multiple income (or loss) streams. There is an argument to sub out a lot of that. Lease out the restaurant space, perhaps the maintenance or ships store, even the slip management.



And, if you "work" it, you deserve a salary. And no, you DON'T need to work 24/7. In fact, if you are, you're certainly not making good use of your time. Let someone else work the long hours and you just manage them.



It could be a fun and profitable business.



After all of my small businesses, the thinks that made the most profit was: When I worked the LEAST. When I had GOOD people. When I had a GOOD accounting system. And most important. when I had a real good handle on how the REAL profits were made vs. the losers.



However, not for me. Not interested in a "business" but rather an "investment". Put my money in and expect a return. BUT, still want control. Not sure if that's easy with a marina.. suspect not, but perhaps own the land/water rights and lease the whole operation to a successful marina operator?


I'll stop by and buy fuel and dockage from you.
 
Once away from Vancouver, Nanaimo and Victoria areas, few BC marinas could be considered real estate plays.
 
I very much doubt that a "small" marina would enable the owner to sub out management etc. These are not businesses that generate enough cash to pay other people to do the owner's work. If you are lucky you may be able find people you trust to manage specific areas, assuming the marina has multiple activities. We kept our boat in a what I would call a medium/large marina, the owner was there almost all the time during the 7 day week. While there was a night security watch, I am pretty certain he was called out many times at night, also. As previous, it is quite easy to a cash flow and P&L for such a business to see what it will really allow in terms of income. I would not bet much on capital appreciation if buying an existing business, especially if limited in terms of its ability to add docks, services, or real estate.
 
Having been in and out of the marina business a few times, much of the preceding advice seems smart. A marina is essentially a real-estate play, with a unique value proposition because boat owners have a compelling need for a place to dock. The more revenue streams you can create, the better, as long as they are manageable. I would avoid fuel, but offering pump-out can be a draw that spins off a few bucks while bringing boaters in to your facility. The same applies to on-site food & beverage, but running a bar or restaurant is best left to a F&B pro, under some kind of lease / sublease.

Slip rentals are the core asset, so ensure that your slips are what local boat owners not only want, but need. For example, if the area is populated with boats in the 45' plus range, with a beams running 15' plus feet wide, and drawing five feet or so, your slips had better be able to easily accommodate those boats. The larger the boats you can accommodate, the more likely you'll be to attract tenants who need what you are offering, and have the means to care for their boats (which would include promptly paying their marina bills). The smaller the boat, the more easily its owner can go find someplace else to store it.

Beware the somewhat sketchy-looking liveaboard who comes to you because he's mad at his previous marina landlord. Chances are that good you and he will wind up crossways as well. Even if you avoid that hazard, owning a marina will leave you with a supply of crazy stories and enough colorful characters to last a lifetime.
 
Marinas are subject to ever changing and IMO hostile environmental laws. An old marina could have unknown ground contamination from chemicals or petroleum used long ago. You would be buying those problems.
 
We boat in the NE with a short season like Ted mentioned. I would venture a guess but confident the marina we store at over winter makes way more $ from haul out, winterization, shrink wrap and storage than summer slip rentals. The work related to storage is about 2 mos and done. Repair business is an ongoing almost year round part of the picture if you have good mechanics and clientele to support it.
Many around us have dropped dealerships and selling new boats due to unrealistic demands of manufacturers. They still handle brokerage of used boats.
 
There is one for sale in the Schooner's Cove area that looks reasonable and probably has a long wait list. I haven't read all the comments so I might late to the party
 
Another one I saw in a magazine today is Gorge Harbor, Cortez Island in Desolation Sound. i haven't been in there in years but I heard that they put in new docks and facilities a while back.
 
We had family acquaintances who have a marina in southern BC. It does very well but it took three generations to build it up. They worked really hard on it, all the family were involved One thing they have is a stellar location. I suspect that is the single most important thing. This gives them 12 month business. I won't name it but anyone cruising from WA to BC will know it. I suspect the smaller less central marinas will struggle more.

I think you'd want to understand how much of the business is permanent versus transitional. When we could still cruise BC pre-Covid we did some May and early June trips. Some of the small marinas were essentially empty.
 
I’ve been boating in Wa and BC consistently for the last 30 years. My wife’s family used to run a small fishing resort (long before me) in the 60’s and 70’s. The trend over that timeframe has been consistently negative. If you see pictures from yesteryear the one thing that is overwhelming is how many boats used to be out and about. Beaches literally covered with people. Yet population centers were a minor fraction of today. Renting small boats, think rowboats, was a huge business and small resorts had fleets f them and the cottages to back them up. People came and camped, stayed the summer even. The attached restaurant was full. Bait sales were huge. And yet even then, to hear my wife’s grandparents talk about the pressure of making 12 months of income in 3 months. Their voices would steel, lower and get serious without even thinking about it. It was as natural as breathing for the game face to come on, and that was close on 20 years after they sold everything and retired.

When my wife and I started boating seriously, in our 23 foot Penn Yan with its cuddy cabin, stand up head, a small ice box and an alcohol stove. We went everywhere we could. We put anew engine in an old cheap boat and covered hundreds upon hundreds of miles every year while working low paying jobs just a few years out of college. There were small mom and pop marinas littered around BC, our favorite. Many have closed. The ones still surviving, don’t look or function like they once did. Pools are closed, the marina store is barely stocked. The sense of community on the dock is not there, neither is the people. Take Poets Cove as a “recent” example, though they built out like 20 years ago. Their old pub, used to be absolutely packed to the gills in the summer. The concession outside, had even more gathered around. The docks are nicer now, but similar in overall dock footage. Yet today, the pub is a relative ghost town. They survived by building the condo’s on the shore, providing a different revenue stream, not so reliant on the boaters. Look at the similar story in Roche Harbor. When we started boating they had only their guest dock. They added massively to their dock footage, but that wasn’t enough. They had to build significant land based housing too and the numbers you see in their store and restaurant only seem to just keep up.

I think you have to look at the demographics. Boats get bigger. We used to visit the same marinas in a 23 foot boat and lots of other boats were similar. 30 was a good sized boat. Now we go to the same places and take up 50 feet of dock space for the same amount of people. Our boat is no longer considered a big boat. But the increase in moorage rates per foot over the years don’t keep up with loss of headcount. Moorage fees may pay for the dock, but it’s t shirts, ice cream and burgers, the high margin low cost stuff that paid for a years worth of revenue in 3 months. For years, boats get bigger, the demographic gets older and fewer people provide the money to pay for a massive relative increase in the services costs (payroll) of running a successful marina. Increases in dock space are rare, so if new larger boats enter the market, you still have the same amount of dock space. Aging boaters, 65 foot boats, bow thrusters and headsets see 65 feet of dock space with only a couple on board. With all the comforts of home, they often don’t even eat out. They don’t walk as far and spend less. Boats at anchor buy many fewer t shirts and burgers. Covid has strangely seen a return to jam packed marinas, and that’s good, but the age demographic has not returned to parents in their 30’s and the large boats with fewer people per linear dock foot still ensure an upper limit to the number of tshirts that can be sold.

In southern BC look at places like Port Browning, Otter, Pender, Maple Bay, Chemainus, Cow, Saltspring, etc... All shadows of their former selves. Docks are often barely holding together with deferred maintenance. The trend is still in the wrong direction. First ask yourself, why those with much more experience have not figured out the magic formula. Then ask what you would do different? Can you show it in a business model? Is it real? It’s hard to fight against a changed demographic. Years ago, I dreamed of retiring to run a marina. For me, that dream just doesn’t work on paper. I’ve looked, seriously. I had the chance to buy a local chandlery about 8 years ago. I did not go through with it. Too much risk.

I hope it works for you. I hope it works for a whole new generation. As boaters, we need to be massively expanding a younger demographic. 50 foot boats don’t work for all but a few Millenials. There are lots of vectors to solve here. I’ve been involved with local clubs. We saw this coming well over a decade ago. Many care about it, but not so much to do more than complain that the problem somehow lays with the younger generations attitude. A cop out at best. We don’t live in an era of boats made from inexpensive resin, put together by equally inexpensive labor. We can’t build and insure docks built out of logs salvaged from the beach with piles driven by a garden hose. The fishing won’t support entire marinas as it once did. The business model is different. Entirely different. You are buying a marina designed to support the needs of a generation 35+ years removed. Think outside the box. How do you appeal equally to the cruisers and the multitudes of kayakers, paddle boarders, etc..? How do you provide an eco conscious experience to those who will ultimately travel less in a day and yet not want to be in the middle of an urban experience? The old mom and pop marinas had something that would appeal greatly to the some f the younger demographics, who are all but untapped today. Figure that out and you might just have something. Plan to just return an old marina to its glory days and expect the money to come rolling in and you will find the old business model won’t buy you out of your investment, and worse yet you might not be able to afford to get out under the false belief that it can’t get any worse.

I hope you figure this one out, but I’m glad it’s not my retirement at risk.
 
There are plenty of successful marinas. I have done rough operating expenses vs income calculations for our small marina to conclude it is certainly profitable.
I would suggest you join a marina owners association where you will likely find the answers you need to move forward (or not).
I do agree that real estate plays a big part in the success of a marina. More real estate gives you more options to either attract tenants or generate more direct income.
Best
Scott
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom