Marina Eviction in advance of Irma

[FootballFan]

Originally Posted by what_barnacles

You wont get one today.

I cant speak for all providers but I havent seen one write a policy with a named storm heading there.

Speaking of named storms, everyone needs to read ALL documents on the providers website. They have a nasty habit of stating named storms are not covered in sometimes hard to find documents. That includes liability.

I agree. Policy always states that it will not cover any names storm active at the time of issue.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by what_barnacles

You wont get one today.

I cant speak for all providers but I havent seen one write a policy with a named storm heading there.

Speaking of named storms, everyone needs to read ALL documents on the providers website. They have a nasty habit of stating named storms are not covered in sometimes hard to find documents. That includes liability.

Most have a clause that any storm named prior to the effective policy date is not covered or something similar. Seems fair.

[Drake]

It seems to me that the owner of a very large yacht can well afford to consult with a good lawyer. Under these circumstances he'd be nuts not to, IMHO.

Paul

[Creekdweller]

Thank you all for the replies. I just wanted confirmation that I read it correctly, and this conforms to local practice. It seems logical, and makes some sense to me.

[BandB]

Talking about marina evacuation, I just heard the governor talk about evacuation of people. He said right now they were just instructing some people to evacuate but they didn't know yet where to tell them to go.

I will say this and understand I'm definitely not a fan of him, there is a lot already going on and in place and the level of organization for this is amazing. A lot of school systems closed tomorrow and most of the others on Thursday. Already have evacuation plans for the hospitals in Key West. A centralized supply facility in Orlando for all the shelters.

I also got an idea that they'd taken Matthew as a small warning shot, even though it's major damage was elsewhere.

Having to remind myself that 12-18" of rain or even 8-12" is very serious for some areas such as Puerto Rico and the Bahamas. After 48" in Texas it seems small but it isn't.

[Creekdweller]

I am his attorney, but am not local. Just looking for confirmtaion of local practice in the marinas.

[SoWhat]

My marina will take "reasonable" precautions to secure my boat. There is no requirement that I remove the boat. The contract clearly states it will not guarantee haul out due to an approaching storm due to limited facilities and staff.

In other words, after Sep 15, the first hurricane that turns north is the signal for haul out. Wait until the storm is off the NJ coast and you are not going to get hauled.

(I have to be within 100 miles of home port to have coverage from named storm.)

[BandB]

Originally Posted by SoWhat

My marina will take "reasonable" precautions to secure my boat. There is no requirement that I remove the boat. The contract clearly states it will not guarantee haul out due to an approaching storm due to limited facilities and staff.

In other words, after Sep 15, the first hurricane that turns north is the signal for haul out. Wait until the storm is off the NJ coast and you are not going to get hauled.

(I have to be within 100 miles of home part to have coverage from named storm.)

Are the haul out facilities really set up with proper concrete anchoring and bracing and tying? I ask because I see so many boats on land that would simply become dominoes crashing over or projectiles into others in a hurricane. I know places like Jarrett are really set up to handle it and have a record of minimal damage, but most places are not.

Actually, looking at their photos, I'm not sure what Jarrett Bay has, just know they haul a lot of boats and they're well away from the coast.

[Tom.B]

So let's extrapolate this just a little.

You're in a marina that says that they will take your boat away if you don't leave for a named storm. Ok, fine, however, according to the statute, they can't just cut you loose and they can't just willy-nilly the securing of it.

Let's also speculate that we are in a place like FL where there is less space in a safe harbor than there is footage of boats.

We could again speculate that the marina owners would probably not know for sure about the boat or boats that are refusing to leave for a storm until the last minute.

How would a marina owner find the resources to not only move the boat, but secure it on land or in the water where he no longer becomes liable or put themselves at risk from the storm itself? Haul out schedules in yards and protected anchorages fill up to overflowing days before a storm hits. Rental captains are busy. Crews are busy. Would they be liable if they single-handed a strange boat.

Would it then be smarter for a marina to then just secure the subject boat (or require the owner to) as best as it can and make a claim on the boats insurance (assuming they require it) for any damage to the marina assets?

And finally... while the statues in many states say you might not have to leave, it doesn't say that the marina has any obligation to renew you lease after the storm is gone either.

[SoWhat]

Originally Posted by BandB

Are the haul out facilities really set up with proper concrete anchoring and bracing and tying? I ask because I see so many boats on land that would simply become dominoes...

Dominoes either way. Finger slips are held by 2 bolts and they're not going to last long once a few boats part lines and start slamming into them.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by SoWhat

Dominoes either way. Finger slips are held by 2 bolts and they're not going to last long once a few boats part lines and start slamming into them.

Some floating docks have well secured fingers.

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by BandB

That is so tiresome to keep hearing. Florida is the largest market and the true marine insurers have tens of thousands of insured Florida boats, year round, no exclusion for hurricanes.



Just cruise through Fort Lauderdale and look around you. Do you think all those boats aren't insured? We had a choice of many excellent insurers to choose from.

Couldn't agree more. In insurance parlance, there is no such thing as a bad risk, only a bad price. High risk equals high price. Insurance was not difficult for me, leaving boat full time in southwest Florida. The other corollary that drives me crazy is saying it's unwise to take a boat trip in Florida during Hurricane season. Heck, I far prefer swimming in warm water, don't you? Late September/ early October is great weather and warm water.

[ksanders]

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Tom.B

So let's extrapolate this just a little.

You're in a marina that says that they will take your boat away if you don't leave for a named storm. Ok, fine, however, according to the statute, they can't just cut you loose and they can't just willy-nilly the securing of it.

Let's also speculate that we are in a place like FL where there is less space in a safe harbor than there is footage of boats.

We could again speculate that the marina owners would probably not know for sure about the boat or boats that are refusing to leave for a storm until the last minute.

How would a marina owner find the resources to not only move the boat, but secure it on land or in the water where he no longer becomes liable or put themselves at risk from the storm itself? Haul out schedules in yards and protected anchorages fill up to overflowing days before a storm hits. Rental captains are busy. Crews are busy. Would they be liable if they single-handed a strange boat.

Would it then be smarter for a marina to then just secure the subject boat (or require the owner to) as best as it can and make a claim on the boats insurance (assuming they require it) for any damage to the marina assets?

And finally... while the statues in many states say you might not have to leave, it doesn't say that the marina has any obligation to renew you lease after the storm is gone either.

In practice, in South Florida that's the situation. The marinas don't try to force people away. They do try to make sure all boats are secured well and no items are in the open that can become projectiles. They have no reason not to renew as these are good customers. Now, what you won't see them tolerate is boats tied with too few or too small lines or not tied properly in other ways. Plus if they have to take your canvas off and store it, they'll charge you.

The docks themselves are actually better off with properly docked and tied boats. Not as likely to become airborne. Now, one caveat and that is with new docks built regularly, most of the local marinas here in Fort Lauderdale have never experienced a hurricane hit directly. 2005, Wilma hit just north and west of the city and the marinas, so some impact but not that of a direct hit plus it was 105 mph. In 1999, Irene was 75 mph.

[Ski in NC]

Non lawyer here, but do have experience owning a small marina. There is an element of maritime law in play here, that regarding safe harbor. Regardless of the contract or local or state law, you can not evict a vessel into peril of a storm. If evicted and harm comes to the vessel afterward, you can be liable. Marina contracts dance around this...

To the OP, might be worth discussing with a colleague in the maritime field.

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by ksanders

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

I happen to live in Atlanta and keep my boat near Ft Myers. I'm not going to either fly or drive into south Florida this week to move the boat. I have no assurance I could locate a safe anchorage or a safer marina. That hurricane path means no point in going to east coast Florida, anywhere west coast Florida, nor even Alabama/ Mississippi, etc. Any of those might be as bad or worse than my home marina. We are 5 days out and the National Hurricane Center says their guess 5 days out averages 225 miles off target. I guess one could try to go up Mobile Bay and into the Tenn-Tom waterway.

I'm in a modern marina in Cape Coral with 2 luxury condo towers and a Westin hotel on 2 sides, with mangroves on another side and no fetch. I'm betting my own slip, with lots of extra lines put on by very experienced folks is the best solution. If not, that's what insurance is for. I'm not going to fret, but I'm certainly watching with great interest.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by ksanders

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

A few problems. Where? Will it really be safer? What risk are you creating for yourself?

As of Tuesday, we have no idea where the hurricane is going to hit. Therefore, we secure and protect where we are. Now, we could have decided today to get on a boat and head north. We have a lot more things though here in Fort Lauderdale that we choose instead to keep an eye on and take care of. We would rather be closer.

In the past, many people have headed north up the coast only to have the hurricane miss South Florida and make land where they headed. This happens on the water and on land. What if we'd done what you describe for Matthew? It didn't hit here but sure got the coast further north.

There's an underlying assumption in your post that we know safer places to move to than our well secured location where we're currently docked. They are taking Okeechobee down now, trying to reduce it's water level to prevent flooding there, by the way.

They don't even know where to send those evacuating by car.

And then perhaps a few of us could move, but that leaves 99% of the boats still here. There's a tendency to underestimate the number of boats here. What do you do with a hundred thousand boats?

In your scenario, that would get someone to Beaufort NC running outside but only to Charleston SC running inside. Running outside would have been problematic looking at how conditions are worsening this week.

Plus in our case, we flew from Corpus Christi to Charlotte yesterday and didn't get home until today.

I feel like our boats are well protected. Is it perfect? Of course not. Just the best we, and the collective wisdom of those we've talked to, know to do.

I know to many it makes no sense to be here, but it does to us. On top of home and family and friends we also have 3000 employees in South Florida that we're concerned about.

That's our logic. May not make sense to you coming at it from a different place and perspective.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Ski in NC

Non lawyer here, but do have experience owning a small marina. There is an element of maritime law in play here, that regarding safe harbor. Regardless of the contract or local or state law, you can not evict a vessel into peril of a storm. If evicted and harm comes to the vessel afterward, you can be liable. Marina contracts dance around this...

To the OP, might be worth discussing with a colleague in the maritime field.

Goof point and I've seen that used in NC. One marina had it in the contract and told all the boaters they had to move their boats. 30 or so did not. What is the marina then going to do? Nothing.

[Donsan]

Originally Posted by ksanders

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

Assuming one knew where the storm was going to track, there would be safe places to minimize risk. The main issue is the track can go almost anywhere in the state at this point. But, if in south FL, I would consider running to a part of the defunct cross Florida canal.

[ksanders]

Thans guys...

I've never been to Florida. Certainly never boated there.

I was just thinking, that if you lived there you should have a plan. Something thought out in advance. Arrangments made in advance. A place to hide picked out in advance.

Thats just the prepper in me...